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1999年股东大会 · 巴芒谈通货紧缩对个人和经济产生的影响

30 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 3:05
M1
M10:00

Steve Kohn,来自 Illinois 的 Peoria。

Steve Kohn from Peoria, Illinois.

首先,半个小时前我刚吃了人生第一个 Dilly Bar,谢谢你把这个介绍给我。

First of all, I just had my first Dilly Bar a half an hour ago, and thank you for introducing me to that.
M2
M20:08

好。

Good.
M1
M10:09

你要是想的话,他们还会卖你第二个。你刚才提到了变化带来的威胁。

They'll sell you a second too if you— You spoke earlier about the threat of change.

你能谈谈通货紧缩带来的威胁吗?如果真的发生了,它对经济、对 Berkshire Hathaway 可能会有什么影响?

Can you comment on the threat of deflation, and if it were to occur, what its likely impact would be on the economy, Berkshire Hathaway?
M2
M20:29

通货膨胀。

Inflation.

哦,通货膨胀。

Oh, inflation.

通货紧缩。

Deflation.

哦,通货紧缩。

Oh, deflation.
M1
M10:32

哦,我这就说到了。

Oh, I'm getting there.
M2
M20:37

嗯,我觉得这种情况非常非常不可能发生,不过在过去十年甚至更久的时间里,通货膨胀到底被控制住了多少这一点上,我一直都判断错了。

Well, I think it's very, very unlikely, but I have been wrong consistently now for a decade or more about the degree to which inflation has at least been tamed for that period.

如果你在十年到十五年前,就把过去这十来年世界上会发生的其他事情都拿给我看,我会觉得通货膨胀应该比实际更高。

I would have expected, if you'd showed me all the other things that were going to happen in the world in the last 10— if I'd seen that ahead of time 10 or 15 years ago, I would have thought we would have had more inflation.

所以,嗯,我很难想象一个美国会经历通货紧缩的世界。

So, uh, I have trouble envisioning, uh, a world of, uh, where the U.S. experiences deflation.

不过,你知道,我在这件事上的判断记录并不好。

But, you know, my record is not great on that.

再说一次,我们不会——我们,我们不会花很多时间去思考宏观因素。

And again, we don't— we, we do not spend a lot of time thinking about macro factors.

我的意思是,如果真的出现通货紧缩,那就意味着,资本本身是在升值的。

I mean, if you ran into deflation, that means that, you know, capital is appreciating.

所以在通货紧缩环境下,要达到和通胀环境中同样的位置,你所需要的资本名义回报率就要低得多。

So you need much lower nominal rates of return on capital to be in the same place under deflation as would be the case if you had inflationary conditions.

所以如果其他条件都一样——当然现实里并不一样——通货紧缩对投资者是有利的,因为,你知道,货币的价值会上升,货币的购买力会上升。

So deflation, everything being equal— and it isn't equal— is good for investors because it, you know, the value of money appreciates, the buying power of money appreciates.

但它也会带来其他后果。

But it would have other consequences too.

我,我觉得这种情况不太可能。

I, I don't think it's likely.

我不是——我在宏观预测方面根本没有什么出色的记录,而且——如果这事真的发生了,说实话,我也不知道会有什么影响。

I'm not— I have no great record at all in macro forecasting, and I— if it does happen, the truth is I don't know what the effects would be.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M32:07

嗯,你已经看到通货紧缩在 Japan 造成了什么影响,对那边的人来说,这段经历相当不好受。

Well, you've seen what deflation is doing in Japan, and it's been quite unpleasant for the, for the people there.

但另一方面,它也还没有变成一场灾难。

On the other hand, it hasn't been a catastrophe.

我的意思是,远远没有像美国三十年代那样。

I mean, nothing like the '30s in the United States.
M2
M22:21

对,而且实际上,在 Japan,如果你持有长期债券,你会因为通货紧缩得到一笔惊人的大收获,因为随着利率下降,你手里债券的价值会大幅上升,而那笔钱反过来还能买到更多东西。

No, and actually, in Japan, if you'd owned long bonds, you would have had a tremendous bonanza from deflation because the value of your bonds would have gone up dramatically as interest rates came down, and then that money in turn would buy more.

所以——如果你刚好是那些在几年前持有高票息长期债券的人,这对你是很有利的。

So it would— it was a very— if you happened to be the person that owned longer bonds issued at higher coupons some years back, that's worked to your advantage.

而且,我想如果我们国家真的遇到持续性的通货紧缩,同样的情况大概也会发生。

But, and presumably that would work in this country if we actually ran into consistent deflation.

我猜,那些持有长期债券的人——哪怕是以百分之五点五买入的——和持有大多数其他资产类别的人相比,也会发现自己的处境大幅改善。

My guess is that people who owned long bonds, even bought at 5.5%, would find their position in the world dramatically improved compared to people who own most other asset classes.

二区。

Zone 2.