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2003年股东大会 · 巴菲特:我最喜欢这个类型的企业,但它极其罕有

76 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 7:12
M1
M10:00

大家好。

Hi there.

我叫 Alex Rubalcava。

My name is Alex Rubalcava.

我是来自 Los Angeles 的股东。

I'm a shareholder from Los Angeles.

我想问一个问题,是关于你们喜欢收购和投资的那些企业,它们在财务特征上有什么特点。

I have a question about the financial characteristics of the businesses that you like to acquire and invest in.

Buffett 先生,你在报告和其他文章里说过,你喜欢收购那种能够以很高回报率运用大量资本的企业。

In your reports and other writings, Mr. Buffett, you state that you like to acquire businesses that can employ a large amount of capital at high returns.
M2
M20:25

对。

Yes.
M1
M10:26

我在读你和 Munger 先生的文章和演讲时,也看到你们在 Outstanding Investor Digest 和其他刊物上说过,你们喜欢投资那种几乎不需要多少资本的公司。

In reading the writings and speeches of yourself, Mr. Munger, I've seen you say in Outstanding Investor Digest and other publications that you enjoy investing in companies that require very little capital.

所以我想知道,这两种说法是不是彼此矛盾,还是说其实是一体两面。

And I was wondering if these statements are at odds or if they are two sides of the same coin.

如果你们能结合 Berkshire 旗下的公司展开讲讲,那就太好了。

And if you could elaborate using Berkshire companies, that'd be great.
M3
M30:57

当然,这是个好问题。

Sure, it's a good question.

最理想的企业,是那种资本回报率非常高,而且还能持续把大量资本以同样高的回报率投进去的企业。

The ideal business is one that earns very high returns on capital and could keep using lots of capital at those high returns.

我的意思是,那就会变成一台复利机器。

I mean, that becomes a compounding machine.

所以如果让你选,比如说你能把一亿美元投进一家企业,这家企业能在这些资本上赚百分之二十的回报,也就是两千万美元;那最理想的情况是,第二年它能在一亿两千万美元上继续赚百分之二十,第三年能在一亿四千四百万美元上继续赚百分之二十,以此类推。也就是说,随着时间推移,你可以不断把资本再投进去,而且一直拿到同样的回报率。

So if you have your choice, if you could put $100 million into a business that earns 20% on that capital, say $20 million, ideally, it would be able to earn 20% on $120 million the following year and $144 million the following year and so on, that you could keep redeploying capital at these same returns over time.

但这样的企业非常非常非常少。

But there are very, very, very few businesses like that.
M2
M21:36

真正——

The really—
M3
M31:37

很遗憾,真正的好企业,你看像 Coca-Cola 或者 See's Candies,它们其实并不需要太多资本。

Unfortunately, the good businesses, you know, take a Coca-Cola or See's Candies, they don't require much capital.

而且新增资本带来的回报,根本没法接近那种由某种伟大的无形资产所产生的基础回报。

And incremental capital doesn't produce anything like the returns that this fundamental return that's produced by some great intangible.

所以我们当然很喜欢那种企业——那种不仅能持续投入资本,甚至投入规模还能远远超过它自身盈利的企业。

So we would love the business that earned— that could keep deploying, in fact, even well beyond the earnings.

我是说,我们当然希望有这样一家企业:现在在一亿美元上能赚百分之二十,如果我们再往里面投十亿美元,它在这十亿美元上也同样还能赚百分之二十。

I mean, we'd love to have a business that could earn 20% on $100 million now, and if we put a billion more in it, it would earn 20% more on that billion.

但就像我说的,这样的企业太罕见了。

But like I say, those businesses are so rare.

市场上有很多人声称自己是这种企业,但我们几乎从来没真正见过。

There are a lot of promises of those businesses, but we've practically never seen one.

倒是有过少数几个。

There's been a few.

大多数伟大的企业都会产生很多现金。

Most of the great businesses generate lots of money.

但它们并不会产生很多机会,让你把新增资本也拿去赚取高回报。

They do not generate lots of opportunities to earn high returns on incremental capital.

你看,我们在 See's 里投入一个 X,能赚很多钱;但如果我们投五倍的 X,基本上也不会多赚什么钱。

You know, we can deploy X at See's and earn a lot of money, but if we put 5X in, we don't earn any more money to speak of.

我们在 Buffalo News 上投入一个 X,也能拿到很高回报;但如果我们想把它变成五倍的 X,也并不会多赚什么钱。

We can earn high returns on X at the Buffalo News, but if we tried to make it 5X, we don't earn any more money.

它们就是没有那么多使用新增资本的机会。

They just don't have the opportunities to use incremental capital.

我们一直在找这种机会,但它们就是不存在。

We look for them, but they don't.

所以,那种伟大的——你也看到过——我是说,我们在理论上会谈到那种能够靠新增资本、并且以高回报率赚越来越多钱的企业。

So the great— you've seen— I mean, we will talk theoretically about the businesses that are going to earn more and more money with incremental capital at high returns.

但你真正看到的是,我们买下来的企业大多还是那种本身资本回报不错的企业,只不过在很多情况下,它们用新增资本所能赚到的回报,远远达不到它们在基本业务上原本能赚到的那种水平。

But what you've seen is that we've bought businesses largely that earn good returns on capital, but in many cases have limited opportunities to earn anything like the returns they earn on their basic business with incremental capital.

现在,Berkshire 这种架构有一个好处,就是那些本身回报率很不错、但没法把新增投入的钱也用出同样高回报的业务,我们可以把钱调出来,拿去买更多企业。

Now, the one good thing about our structure at Berkshire is that we can take those businesses that earn good returns in their business but don't have the opportunity for returns of a similar magnitude on incremental money, and we can move that money around to buy more businesses.

通常来说,比如拿报纸出版这个行业来说,这些年一直都是个非常棒的生意——你在自己投进去的资本上能赚到很高的回报,但如果你跑去买别的报纸公司,就得付出非常高的价钱。

Normally, if you're in the— take the newspaper publishing business, which has been a fantastic business over the years— you earned terrific returns on your own invested capital, but if you went out to buy other newspapers, you had to pay a very fancy price.

这样一来,新增资本的回报就不会太好。

And you didn't get great returns on incremental capital.

但那个行业里的人会觉得,他们唯一懂的就是报纸出版,或者某种媒体业务。

But the people in that business felt that the only thing they knew was newspaper publishing or media of one sort or another.

所以他们会觉得自己的选择很有限。

So they felt that their options were limited.

而我们可以把钱挪到任何有道理的地方去。

We can move money any place that it makes sense.

这就是我们这种结构的优势。

And that's an advantage of our structure.

当然,我们到底能不能把这件事做好,那是另外一个问题。

Now, whether we do a good job of it or not is another question.

但单从这个角度来说,这种结构的优势是非常大的。

But the structure is enormously advantageous in that respect.

我们可以把好生意,比如 See's Candy,赚出来的钱拿出来用。

We can take the good business, the See's Candy.

自从 Charlie 和我在一九七二年把十万美元投进去以来,See's 大概已经为我们贡献了十亿美元的税前利润。

See's has produced probably a billion dollars pretax for us since Charlie and I wound up $100,000, you know, back in 1972.

如果我们试着把这笔钱继续投在糖果业务里,长期下来回报会很糟糕。

If we tried to employ that in the candy business, we'd have gotten terrible returns over time.

基本上不会有什么像样的回报。

We wouldn't have gotten anything to speak of.

但因为我们把它调配到别的地方,随着时间推移,它就让我们能够买下其他一些企业。

But because we moved it around, it enabled us to buy some other businesses over time.

这也是我们这种结构的一个优势。

And that's an advantage of our structure.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M24:34

对,如果你看一种好生意,但还不是那种特别了不起的生意,它们一般会落在两类里面。

Yeah, and if you take a business that is a good business but not a fabulous business, they tend to fall into 2 categories.

一种是,公司报出来的全部利润,到年底就都变成账上的盈余现金放在那里,你可以把它从业务里拿出来,而且拿出来以后,这门生意照样能运转得跟钱留在里面时一样好。

One is the business where the whole reported profit just sits there in surplus cash at the end of the year, and you can take it out of the business, and the business will do just as well without it as it would if it stayed in the business.

第二种生意是,账面上看资本回报率有百分之十二,但手上就是永远没现金。

The second business is one that reports the 12% on capital, but there's never any cash.

这让我想起我老朋友 John Anderson 做的二手工程设备生意。

It reminds me of the used construction equipment business of my old friend John Anderson.

他以前常说,在我这个生意里,每年你都在赚钱,可赚的钱就摆在院子里。

And he used to say, in my business, every year you make a profit, and there it is sitting in the yard.

像这样的生意其实特别多,光是为了继续经营、为了维持原地不动,

And, and there are an awful lot of businesses like that where, just to keep going, to stay in place,

手里就永远没有现金。

there's never any cash.

这种生意就没法让总部抽出大量现金,再拿去投到别的地方。

Now, that business doesn't enable headquarters to drag out a lot of cash and invest it elsewhere.

我们讨厌这种生意。

We hate that kind of a business.

你觉得这么说公不公平?

Don't you think that's a fair statement?
M3
M35:39

对,这么说很公平。

Yeah, that's a fair statement.

我们喜欢的是,能够把现金调来调去,然后让它去到最合适的用途上。

We, we like to be able to move cash around and, uh, and, and, and have it find its best use.

不过你知道,这就是我们的工作,有时候我们也确实能找到很好的用途。

And, and, but that, you know, that's our job, and sometimes we find good uses.

如果我们每一家优秀企业——而我们确实有很多优秀企业——都能把额外资本以很高的回报率再投出去,那当然太棒了,但我们并没有看到这种情况。

It would be, it would be terrific if every one of our great businesses— and we've got a lot of great businesses— had ways to deploy additional capital at great rates, but we don't see it.

而且说实话,这种情况并不常见——我的意思是,Gillette 有一个非常棒的 razor-and-blade business。

And frankly, you know, it doesn't happen—I mean, Gillette has a great razor-and-blade business.

我是说,简直太好了。

I mean, fabulous.

他们根本不可能把 razor-and-blade business 赚到的钱,再持续不断地投回到同类业务里去。

There's no way they can deploy the money they make in the razor-and-blade business to keep putting more money in that kind of business.

因为这种业务根本不需要那么多资本。

It just doesn't take that kind of capital.

他们当然还是得投一点钱,但跟利润比起来,那点钱简直微不足道。

They have to deploy some money, but it's peanuts compared to the profits.

这样一来,诱惑就在于跑出去买别的企业。

And the temptation then is to go out and buy other businesses.

当然了,Charlie 和我在面对这种情况的时候,做的也正是这个。

And of course, that's what Charlie and I do when we face that.

但我们并不认为,美国企业界整体上在重新配置资本这件事上的 batting average 有多好。

But we don't think that overall the batting average of American industry in redeploying capital has been great.

尽管如此,这还是我们每天都在努力做的事。

Nevertheless, it's what we try and do every day.

从某种意义上说,我们有点像是在批评那个恰恰把我们带到今天这个位置的做法。

In a sense, we sort of knock the very procedure that has gotten us to where we are.

Charlie,这么说公平吗?

Is that a fair statement, Charlie?

对。

Yes.
M2
M26:49

完全对,而且这一点一直让我很担心。

Absolutely, and that has always worried me.

我不喜欢自己成了某种活动的范例,可大多数试着照着做的人,最后往往都会得到很糟糕的结果;所以我们才会尽量通过这些负面的评论来避免这种情况。

I don't like being an example of an activity where most people who try and follow it will get terrible results, and we try and avoid that by making these negative comments.
M3
M37:08

反正我们本来也会说这些负面评论。

We'd make negative comments anyway.

第五点,这样更有意思。

Number five, it's more fun.