Pershing Square Founder & CEO Bill Ackman Talks Succession, — 文稿

F10:38

欢迎收看 Bloomberg 对 Global Milken Conference 的报道。

Welcome to Bloomberg's coverage of the Global Milken Conference.

我是 Dani Burger，身边这位是 Pershing Square 的创始人兼 CEO Bill Ackman。

I'm Dani Burger alongside Bill Ackman, the founder and CEO of Pershing Square.

Bill，非常感谢你坐下来接受采访。

Bill, thank you so much for sitting down.

M10:47

当然。

Of course.

F10:48

我是说，你现在肯定是 Wall Street 上最忙的人了。

I mean, you've got to be the most busy man on Wall Street right now.

光是列一下你现在正在做的事情，就已经很多了。

It's just compiling a list of what you're currently working on.

你现在有两只公开交易的股票基金，一家公开交易的资产管理公司，还有一家公开交易的房地产公司，而你正在努力把它改造成一个迷你版的 Berkshire Hathaway。

You have 2 publicly traded equity funds now, a publicly traded asset manager, a publicly traded real estate company that you're working to transform into a mini Berkshire Hathaway.

而且你还在围绕 Universal Music Group 推动一项行动。

And you're running a campaign with Universal Music Group.

你现在的注意力最集中在哪里？

Where's your attention most focused on right now?

M11:07

在投资上。

On investing.

这些事情都是相关的。

They're all related.

它们彼此都有联系。

They're all correlated.

它们都是一个非常小的投资组合的一部分，所以这才是可能做到的。

They're all part of one very small portfolio, which is why it's possible.

F11:14

确实是可能的。

It is possible.

而且我知道你那边团队很精简，所以一直让人印象很深。

And I know you run with a slim team there, so it's always impressive.

你上周完成了这次 IPO，我们也聊过，不过当时是在它开始交易之前聊的。

And you got this IPO out last week and we talked about it, but we talked before it started to trade.

我知道你不会太在意一天或者几天的交易表现，但它的市场反应你怎么看？毕竟它确实跌了不少。

I know you don't concern yourself with a day's worth of trading or a few days, but what do you make of the reception that it got, that it did fall considerably?

这是投行定价失误的问题吗？

Is this an issue with bankers mispricing it?

M11:34

不是，我的意思是，我们卖出去的是一堆现金。

No, I mean, we sold a pile of cash.

我不明白为什么有人会买一堆现金，然后第二天又打折卖掉。

I don't know why anyone would buy a pile of cash and then the next day sell it at a discount.

我觉得我们上次聊的时候，我没有充分意识到的是，这次发行我们做了一件和通常不太一样的事。

What I think I didn't appreciate when we last spoke is we did something different in this offering that people don't normally do.

通常来说，散户投资者只能拿到很小的配售，所以他们对自己在 IPO 里拿到的股份会感到失望。

Normally, retail investors get kind of a very small allocation and they're disappointed by the shares they get in an IPO.

但我们这次是散户投资者要多少，我们就给了他们多少，然后把机构投资者的配售砍了下来。

In our case, we give the retail investors what they asked for and we cut the institutions back.

我觉得这样带来的影响是，散户投资者一觉醒来发现自己拿到的股票比原本打算买的更多，于是就被迫处在一种卖出的状态。

And I think the impact of that was retail investors woke up with more shares than they had intended to buy and were put in kind of a forced selling position.

这个过程需要慢慢消化掉。

And that has to work its way through.

我想一旦这件事结束，当然现在这组证券相对于我们的发行定价只是小幅下跌。

I think once that's done, I mean, now, again, the package of securities is modestly down from where we priced the offering.

记住，你拿到的是 PSUS 的权益，你可以把它看成一家投资控股公司，也可以把它看成一只 closed-end fund。

Remember, you get an interest in a PSUS, which is either— you think of it as investment holding company, you can think of it as a closed-end fund.

在这里，你拿到的是四十九美元现金，而我们正在把这些现金投入市场。

There you're getting $49 in cash that we're in the process of deploying in the market.

同时你还拿到我们业务的权益，而这是一门非常好的生意。

And you get an interest in our business, which is a very good business.

它有点像 Blackstone 或者 KKR，但也有一些重要的不同。

It's a bit like a Blackstone or KKR, but some important differences.

我们绝大部分资产都放在这类永久资本工具里。

Substantially all of our assets are in these sort of permanent capital vehicles.

所以这个商业模式本身，就像是持有一份复利的版税。

And so the business model itself is like owning a royalty on compounding.

所以——这也就是为什么，我只需要专注于创造回报。

And as we— so that's why all I have to do is focus on generating returns.

我创造回报，就会带来我们资产的增长，也会给业务带来更多现金流。

I generate returns that generates an increase in our assets, that generates more cash flow for the business.

只要我们把资金配置做好，这多少就是一个自我实现的预言。

And it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy as long as we do a good job allocating the money.

F12:56

有一点和你不一样，我在一开始其实也稍微提过，就是你，和其他大型上市资产管理公司相比，你们的团队真的很精简；这一点其实在一篇对 Pershing Square 的分析里也被提到了。

One of the things that's different, and I kind of hinted at this at the beginning, from you, from the other big publicly traded asset managers, is just how slim you are, and this was brought up actually in one analysis of Pershing Square.

M13:06

我喜欢精简。

I like being slim.

我想我们都喜欢。

I think we all do.

F13:08

我觉得尤其是在现在这个时代。

I think especially in this day and age.

但这里面有一种说法，说存在关键人物风险，因为这么多东西都取决于你的想法，以及你真正能不能——

But this idea that there is key-man risk because so much of it is your ideas and your ability to actually—

所以对，来聊聊这个吧。

So yeah, so talk about that.

你是怎么降低这种风险的？

How do you mitigate it?

M13:18

我其实觉得，我们是全世界所有 hedge fund 里，关键人物风险最小的一个，这听起来可能有点意外，因为通常大家都会把我摆在最前面。

I actually think we have the least key-man risk of any hedge fund in the world, and that sounds surprising because usually you put me on.

我上电视的次数比 Pershing Square 里的其他员工都多。

I do more TV appearances than other Pershing Square employees.

但一个 hedge fund 会倒掉，往往是因为某个关键人物出了事，然后投资人第一反应就是。

But what causes a hedge fund to go out of business is something happens to a key person, and then investors, the first thing they do is.

他们会要求把钱拿回去，然后资产缩水，剩下的团队也就走了。

They ask for their money back and then the assets shrink and the rest of the team leaves.

而在我们这里，资产都在这些上市公司里，钱是走不了的。

In our case, the assets are in these public corporations where the money can't leave.

所以如果我出了什么事，钱还在，资产还在，团队也还在。

And so if something happened to me, the money stays, the assets stay, the team stays.

团队持有了公司 45% 的股权。

The team owns, you know, 45% of the business.

对。

Right.

所以公司的股权在整个公司里分布得很分散。

So the company equity is widely spread throughout the firm.

而且我们公司还有一个不太常见的地方，就是在这个行业里，人员流动很大。

And what's unusual about our firm in an industry where there's a lot of turnover.

但在 Pershing Square 不是这样。

There hasn't been at Pershing Square.

我的 CIO，Ryan Israel，和我已经一起合作 17 年了。

So my CIO, Ryan Israel, and I, we've worked together now 17 years.

他当 CIO 已经快 4 年了。

He's been CIO for almost 4.

你知道，如果我明天突然消失，真的不会有什么变化。

You know, if I disappeared tomorrow, nothing would really change.

Pershing Square 刚起步那会儿，绝大多数想法都是我提出来的，我再和分析师一起去分析这些想法。

In the early days of Pershing Square, I generated most of the ideas and I worked with analysts on analyzing those ideas.

而到了今天，我提出的想法已经只占少数了。

Today, I'm generating a minority of the ideas.

所以我不是说我不重要。

So I'm not saying I'm unimportant.

希望我还是能继续给公司创造价值。

Hopefully I can still generate value for the firm.

不过这家公司本身其实非常稳健。

But the firm itself is very robust.

你知道，它是全世界唯一一家这样一来，就算所有员工都出了什么事，因为资产是永久存在的，董事会也只需要再招一支新团队，或者把这些资产放进一个 index fund 就行了。

You know, it's the only firm in the world that if something happened to all of the employees, because the assets are forever, the board would just hire a new team or put the assets in an index fund.

而且随着时间推移，你依然能建立起一种非常有价值的业务。

And you still build a very valuable kind of business over time.

所以它是世界上最稳健的业务之一，也是世界上质量最高的业务之一。

So it's one of the most robust businesses in the world and it's one of the highest quality businesses in the world.

F14:41

顺便说一句，还是有点类似的话题，正如你知道的，作为 Warren Buffett 的粉丝，这个上周末是 Greg Abel 接手掌舵之后的第一次 Berkshire Hathaway 年会。

By the way, just, just kind of on a similar note, as, as you know, a Warren Buffett fan, this past weekend was the first Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting where Greg Abel was at the helm.

你显然还很年轻，但你有没有认真想过怎么安排接班，也就是 Pershing 最终会是什么样子？

You're obviously a young man, but have you thought at all about setting up succession, what that eventually looks like at Pershing?

M14:54

嗯，我觉得其实已经安排得差不多了，你知道的，我们已经确定了 CIO，Ryan，正如我刚才提到的。

Well, I think it's really effectively set up, you know, identified a CIO, Ryan, as I mentioned.

现在是他在真正带领投资团队。

He's really leading the investment team at this point.

Ben Hakim，公司的总裁。

Ben Hakim, president of the firm.

除了投资这条线之外，公司的运营基本上都是他在管。

He kind of runs everything other than the investment side of the operations.

很神奇，我居然还有事情可做。

Amazing there's anything for me to do.

我有幸去思考一些大想法，而你知道的，偶尔某个大想法真的会创造一些价值。

I have the privilege of thinking about big ideas and, you know, occasionally a big idea drives some value.

F15:15

我们能聊聊其中一个大想法吗？

Can we talk about one of those big ideas?

M15:17

当然。

Sure.

F15:17

那就是 Universal Music Group。

And Universal Music Group.

对。

Yeah.

你站出来提出要收购这家公司，很多人都一头雾水。

You come forward with an offer to buy this company and a lot of people scratch their heads.

为什么你会对一家有着非常大多数股东、而且很难推进交易的公司这么做？

Why would you do this with a company that has very large majority shareholders where it's tough to put through?

你的计划是什么？

What is the game plan?

M15:29

其实，那边的计划非常明确，我们需要 Bolloré Group 的支持。

Actually, the, the game plan there is absolutely we need the support of Bolloré Group.

但我觉得，我们提出的方案和他们感兴趣的方向是高度一致的。

But what we're proposing, I think, is very much aligned with what they're interested in.

我的意思是，Universal 算是一个挺有意思的例子，它在自己的核心业务上做得很好，对吧？

I mean, Universal is sort of an interesting case of a company that's done well in its core business, right?

Universal 依然是 recorded music 行业里最占主导地位的公司。

Universal remains the dominant company in the recorded music industry.

它们在 music publishing 行业也依然非常接近第一名。

They remain very close to being the number one company in the music publishing industry.

他们在这方面做得非常好，但他们并没有从像私人公司那样运营，真正过渡成一家上市公司，而且我觉得，他们已经失去了股东和分析师群体的信心，所以股价，你知道的，业务价值在增长，但人们给这家公司 earnings 的估值倍数却在下降。

It's done a very good job with that, but they've not sort of graduated from operating like a private company into being a public company, and they've lost, I would say, the confidence of kind of the shareholders and the analyst community, which is why the stock, you know, the business value has grown and the multiple that people assign to the earnings of the company has declined.

结果就是，这只股票的交易价格和以前差不多。

And the result is a stock that trades at the same price it traded at.

你知道，公司上市第一天的股价是 25 欧元，那是在 2021 年 9 月。

You know, the company's first day of trading was €25, and this is in September of '21.

现在我们几乎五年后了。

Here we are almost five years later.

股价是 19 欧元，18 欧元。

The stock is €19, €18.

所以这表现并不好。

So that's not a good performance.

这家公司真的需要彻底重整一下。

The company really needs a reset.

而且它上市的交易所也选错了。

It's also listed really on the wrong exchange.

它本质上真的是一家美国公司。

It's really a U.S. company.

所以我们的交易，是把公司从 Amsterdam 的上市地转到美国上市。

So our transaction moves the company from Amsterdam to a U.S. listing.

光这一点本身，就能明显创造价值。

That alone is meaningfully value-creating.

我们其实是在重新调整资产负债表。

We kind of recast the balance sheet.

这家公司在资产负债表上有一些还没变现的资产，就是他们持有的 Spotify 股份。

The company has unmonetized assets on the balance sheet, their stake in Spotify.

值得注意的是，公司在过去几天里宣布，他们会出售自己一半的 Spotify 持股。

Now, notably, the company announced in the last couple of days that they're going to sell half their interest in Spotify.

我们认为他们应该把剩下的也卖掉。

We think they should sell the balance.

公司还宣布了一个更激进的回购计划。

The company announced a more aggressive buyback program.

我们觉得还有进一步加码的空间，但我们的交易实际上可以让大约 17% 的流通股被注销，同时把公司迁到这里，并由 Mike Ovitz 牵头组建一个新的董事会。

We think there's an opportunity to do more, but our transaction effectively enables a cancellation of about 17% of the outstanding shares, a migration of the company here, a new board of directors led by Mike Ovitz.

你知道，Mike 我认识很久了。

You know, Mike, I've known a very long time.

我觉得他能给公司的运营带来价值，然后在公司怎么跟股东沟通这件事上，也能做得更好。

I think he can add value to the operations of the company and then just a better program in terms of how the company communicates with shareholders.

你知道，公司现在基本上还在分析这个提案。

You know, the company right now is sort of analyzing the proposal.

我们很快就会收到他们的回复。

We'll hear back from them soon.

我们也一直在和大股东沟通。

We've been engaged with the big shareholders.

F17:19

那你希望他们会接受这个方案吗？

And you're hopeful that they will be receptive to this?

M17:21

我的意思是，公司必须做点什么。

I mean, the company has to do something.

这对公司面临的各种问题来说，是一个非常好的解决方案。

This is a very good solution to the various issues that confront the company.

F17:28

顺便说一下，关于欧洲交易所和美国交易所这个话题，感觉很多公司都发现这里有可以释放的价值，就是把上市地搬到美国交易所。

By the way, on this idea of European versus U.S. exchanges, it feels like that is something that a lot of companies see that they can unlock, that they move to a U.S. exchange.

比如我们那天还和 AstraZeneca 的 CFO 聊过，他们也做了类似的事。

On the day we talked, for example, to the AstraZeneca CFO, and they did something similar.

Bill，你觉得欧洲真的有问题吗？

Does Europe have a real problem, Bill?

M17:42

我的意思是，有啊，你看，交易所本来就是天然垄断。

I mean, yes, look, the exchanges are natural monopolies.

而且你知道，如果你今天没有在需求最旺的市场上市，你的股票，你的资本成本，就会比本来该有的更高。

And, you know, if today, if you're not listed in a market which has the most demand, your stock, your cost of capital is going to be higher than it should be.

所以这里面就有点——而且我觉得，欧洲的交易所太多了。

And so there's sort of—and I think, you know, Europe has too many exchanges.

如果我来管欧洲，我会把 London Stock Exchange 和 Euronext 整合起来，把各个交易所合并一下，因为它毕竟是天然垄断，你希望最大的流动性和需求都集中在一个地方。

What if I were in charge of Europe?

但现在这种民族主义情绪，我觉得阻碍了这件事。

I would consolidate the London Stock Exchange, Euronext, kind of bring the various exchanges because, again, it's a natural monopoly and you want the maximum liquidity and demand in one place.

市场里一个比较新的特点，就是 betting markets 的普及和爆发式增长，而现在也有很多人真的在批评，说我们看到的是世界在几乎全面赌场化，你什么都能下注。

But there's sort of now nationalism, I think, prevents that.

F18:16

这周还有一些 ETF 上市，你可以押注民主党还是共和党会赢得众议院或者参议院。

One of the kind of newer features of markets is the prevalence and the explosion of betting markets, and there's been this real criticism that we're seeing almost a casinoification of the world where you can bet on anything.

这周有一些 ETF 上市，你可以押注 Democrats 或 Republicans 会不会赢下 House 或 Senate。

There are ETFs listing this week where you can bet on whether the Dems or the Republicans are going to be winning the House or the Senate.

这有问题吗？

Is it a problem?

这个趋势你一点都不担心吗？

Does this concern you at all, this trend?

M18:35

我觉得坏处就是，凡事都有利有弊。

I think the negative is that there's a positive and a negative.

我觉得坏处是，它并不是世界上最有生产力的活动。

I think the negative is it's not the most productive activity in the world.

而且赌博很多，不管是体育投注还是别的什么。

And there is a lot of gambling that goes on, whether it's sports betting or otherwise.

而且有人，尤其是年轻人，你知道，会把自己输不起的钱，押在那些很难预测的结果上，结果输了。

And there are people, and particularly young people, you know, losing money they can't afford to lose betting on the outcome of things that are difficult to predict.

所以这显然是不幸的——有点像买彩票。

So that's obviously the unfortunate—it's a bit like lottery tickets.

我觉得，这对社会来说，净效应是负面的。

You know, it's not—it's a net loss, I think, for society.

积极的一面是，博彩市场让人们可以对自己面临的风险做对冲。

On the positive side, what betting markets allow is they allow people to hedge risks that they're exposed to.

它也会创造信息。

It also creates information.

你知道，从价格定在哪里来看，博彩市场在预测选举结果方面做得更好，有些人会这么说，因为，嗯，也许不一定是选举，但会有更多 insider trading。这种情况之所以会发生，是因为激励机制存在。

You know, it's, you know, looking at where things are priced, you know, the betting markets have done a better job of predicting outcomes of elections, some could say, because, well, maybe not elections, but there is more insider trading. The incentives exist for that to happen.

是啊，你看，有些人会说，insider trading 不该违法，因为那样会带来一种更透明的——

Yeah, look, the people make arguments that insider trading should not be illegal because that would bring a sort of more transparent—.

F19:29

你就是那种相信这个观点的人之一。

One of those people that believe that.

M19:30

我不是。

I'm not.

不过，不过你确实可以为它提出一些论点。

But, but you can make some arguments for it.

所以我觉得，这事挺有意思的。

So I think it's, it's sort of interesting.

不过，你知道，市场越变得像赌场，我觉得风险就——风险大概是，人们会因为失去信心而撤出资金。

But, you know, the more the market becomes casino-like, I think the risk— the risk is, I guess, people get—they withdraw capital because they lose confidence.

而且，你知道，我觉得市场变得越来越短期化。

And, you know, I think markets are getting more and more short-term.

如果你想想股市到底是什么，它——这些都是非常长期的资产。

And if you think about what a stock market is, it's—these are very long-term assets.

所以，短期化会带来流动性，我觉得从边际上说这是好事，但它也可能让企业的经营方式变得短视。

So the short-termism drives liquidity, which I think on the margin is a positive, but it also can lead to short-termism in the way businesses are run.

F110:03

Bill，我很想最后聊聊你的家乡城市，New York。

Bill, I would love to just leave on the note of your hometown city, New York.

关于 Mayor Adams 很公开地针对某些人、针对 Ken Griffin 发言，宣布要征收 pied-à-terre tax，并直接攻击这座城市的一些商界领袖，大家一直讨论很多。

There's been a lot of discussion about Mayor Adams making very public pronouncements against specific people, against Ken Griffin, announcing a pied-à-terre tax, directly attacking some of the business leaders of this city.

我知道你在这次选举前，以及对选举结果，也都挺担心的。

I know you were concerned heading into this election and the outcome of it, too.

你现在感觉怎么样？

How are you feeling now?

M110:28

不太好。

Not great about things.

我是说，我觉得 Mamdani 不是——如果你的目标是让 New York City 在财务上有点可持续，那你最不该做的，就是把 Ken Griffin 这种人都赶走，对吧？

I mean, I think Mamdani is not— if your goal is to make New York City kind of financially solvent, what you don't want to do is drive out the Ken Griffins of the world, right?

Ken 带来的业务非常有价值。

Ken brings very valuable business.

那是个 60 亿美元的项目，会创造，你知道，成千上万的建筑工作、建筑设计工作、市场营销工作，随你怎么列，而且那些员工会交很可观的税，因为他们的薪酬很高。

That's, you know, a $6 billion project which will generate, you know, thousands of construction jobs, architecture jobs, marketing jobs, make your list, employees who will pay material amounts of taxes because they're highly compensated employees.

正是这种 Wall Street，还有来自 Wall Street 的税收，让 New York City，也让 New York City 里的所有人，都能过上更好的生活。

It's that sort of the Wall Street and the tax revenues from Wall Street are what enable New York City, kind of all the people in New York City to have a better life.

而如果你把 Ken Griffin 这种人都赶走，要知道，他对 New York 做出了重大贡献，不只是把业务带过去，他还一直非常热心慈善。

And if you drive out the Ken Griffins of the world, who notably, you know, has made a major contribution to New York, not just from bringing his business there, but he's been very philanthropic.

向 Memorial Sloan Kettering 捐了4亿美元，这是一家不仅帮助纽约人，还帮助世界各地癌症患者来那里接受治疗的机构。

$400 million donation to Memorial Sloan Kettering, which is an institution that doesn't just help New Yorkers, it helps people with cancer all over the world to go there to get treated.

所以这根本——这不是个很聪明的做法。

So it's just not— it's not a very smart approach.

F111:28

一想到 Pershing Square，我就会想到纽约市。

I can't think about Pershing Square without thinking about New York City.

但你会不会有一天觉得自己被迫离开纽约？

But could you ever see yourself being driven out of New York?

M111:34

我觉得不太可能。

I think it's unlikely.

我更像是那种会去拼命确保纽约市依然是一座伟大城市的人，而不是会选择离开的人。

I'm more of the kind of guy to fight to make sure New York City is a great city than someone who's going to leave.

F111:40

但问题是，哪怕这些政策会带来严重的经济后果，Mamdani 还是非常受欢迎，而且在他的基本盘里仍然很有人气。

The problem is, though, that with these policies, even if they have dire economic consequences, Mamdani is incredibly popular and he's still very popular with his base.

那事情要怎么改变呢？

So how do things change then?

如果这类想法依然有广泛的民意支持，你要怎么对抗这股潮流？

How do you fight this tide if there still is this broad-based popular support for these types of ideas?

M111:57

这确实是个问题。

It's an issue.

我的意思是，我觉得答案是换一个更好的候选人。你看，Mamdani 说对的一点是，纽约确实不是个很负担得起的地方，但你不可能通过赶走那些给城市带来最多税收的人，来让这里变得更负担得起。

I mean, I think the answer is a better candidate who, you know, look, where Mamdani was correct is that New York is not a very affordable place to live, but you're not going to make it more affordable by getting rid of the biggest drivers of tax revenues for the city.

Mamdani 现在已经有预算危机了。

Mamdani already has a budget crisis.

但我们得想办法把纽约市运转得高效得多。

But we've got to figure out how to run New York City much more efficiently.

但当你加税的时候，你知道，最容易流动的人，坦白说，就是 Ken Griffin 这样的人。

But when you raise taxes, you know, and the most mobile people, frankly, are the Ken Griffins of the world.

Ken 可以把他的生意放在他想放的任何地方，他也可以把他的私人飞机停在他想停的任何地方。

Ken can choose to locate his business wherever he wants and he can locate his jet wherever he wants.

F112:30

这倒是非常对。

Very true, though.

我们正在进入中期选举周期，而负担得起生活成本这个问题又摆上了台面，这也把很多人往左边推了。

We are heading into midterms and again, affordability is on the ticket and that's pushed a lot of people left.

你担心最后会怎么发展吗？会不会冒出更多候选人，想把这类想法带进经济政策里？

Are you worried about how this shakes out, that we might get more candidates who want to put forward these types of ideas into economic policy?

M112:42

是啊，你看，像 Argentina 这样的国家，它下滑得有多惨。

Yeah, look, I think, you know, you look at a country like Argentina and how far it fell.

对。

Right.

阿根廷的 GDP，反正一百年前，它还是世界上最重要的国家之一，结果因为社会主义和其他糟糕政策，直接从世界地图上消失了。

One of the most— Argentinian GDP, whatever, 100 years ago was one of the most significant countries in the world and fell off the map because of socialism and other bad policies.

现在你看到 Milei 上台了，国家正在明显复苏。

Now you see Milei coming back and the country dramatically recovering.

这算是个很好的例子。

It's sort of a great example.

让我觉得离谱的是，社会主义思想居然还能传进这样一个国家。

And it's crazy to me that socialist ideas can travel into a country like this one.

F113:09

我只剩大概30秒了，但如果不问问你一直在做的那些工作，去让 401(k) 这类投资工具更广泛地可获得，那我就太失职了。

I have only about 30 seconds, but I'd be remiss if I didn't ask about some of the work that you've been doing trying to make 401(k)s, those types of investment vehicles, more broadly accessible.

我们上周还有一项行政行动。

We had an executive action last week.

你现在在推动什么？

What are you pushing for at this moment?

M113:22

我觉得每个美国人都得拥有资本主义的一部分。

I think every American has to own a piece of capitalism.

而一旦你拥有了，你就会在股市上涨时感到兴奋，而且你知道，复利的力量也能让你为退休存下钱。

And when you do, you're excited when the stock market goes up and it allows you, you know, power of compounding allows you to save for your retirement.

你知道，我们不能——很遗憾，工资的增长不可能像股市那样快地复利增长。

You know, we can't— you know, unfortunately, wages cannot compound as fast as the stock market.

所以我觉得，让每个美国人都参与到资本主义里来非常重要，不然我们最后就会走向社会主义。

And so I think it's very important for every American to participate in capitalism or we'll end up in socialism.

所以我觉得，总统的这个计划很棒。

And that's— so I think the president's plan is a great one.

你知道，你得有能力——我是说，我觉得如果你相信自己将来能舒舒服服地退休，甚至还能给孩子留下一些东西，让他们有个更好的起点，你知道，这会让你更相信这个国家。

You know, you have to be able to— you know, I think if you believe that you're going to be able to retire comfortably, maybe even leave something for your kids so they get a head start, you know, that makes you believe in the country.

可如果你做不到，你就会生气。

And if you can't, it makes you angry.

所以我觉得，这是一个非常重要的项目。

So I think a very important program.

F114:05

我们得在这里结束了。

We're going to have to end it there.

非常感谢你来参加。

Thank you so much for joining.

真的很感谢你抽时间来。

Really appreciate your time.

那我们就把话题交回纽约。

With that, we'll toss it back to New York.

这当然就是 Pershing Square 的创始人兼 CEO Bill Ackman。

That is, of course, Bill Ackman, the founder and CEO of Pershing Square.

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