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2007年股东大会 · 企业内在价值的计算原理和思考方法

69 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 6:24
M1
M10:00

大家好,我是来自德国 Munich 的 Burkhard Vitek。

Hello, Burkhard Vitek from Munich in Germany.

我想更清楚地了解一下你们是怎么做投资决策的,尤其是你们怎么判断内在价值。

I would like to get some more transparency on how you make investment decisions, particularly how you determine intrinsic value.

你提到过,从理论上来说,正确的方法是 discounted cash flow,但同时你也指出这种方法本身存在一些固有的困难。

You mentioned that the theoretically correct method is discounted cash flow, but at the same time you point out the inherent difficulties of the methodology.

我从别的书里看到,你们会用 operating earnings 的倍数,或者 owner multiples。

From other books, I see that you use multiples on operating earnings or owner multiples.

你的女儿 Mary 在她的一本书里还介绍了另一种方法,就是把 compounding economics 应用到 equity 的价值上。

Your daughter Mary, in one of her books, describes another methodology where you apply compounding economics to the value of the equity.

你能不能再给我们多一点说明,说说你们会用哪种量化方法,以及对于你们感兴趣的投资,你们通常会把结果量化到未来多少年?

Could you give us a bit more transparency which quantitative approach you use and how many years out you try to quantify the results of the investments you're interested in?
M2
M20:49

我听懂这个问题了,不过我打算假装没听懂。

I understand the question, but I'm going to pretend I don't.

先让 Charlie 来回答。

Let Charlie answer first.

我真是这么想的。

I really do.
M3
M30:55

对,当你试着判断像内在价值、margin of safety 之类的东西时,并没有哪一种简单的方法,可以直接机械地套用,比方说交给一台 computer 去按按按钮,然后谁都会因此变有钱。

Yeah, when you're trying to determine something like intrinsic value and margin of safety and so on, there is no one easy method that could be simply mechanically applied by, say, a computer and make anybody who could punch the buttons rich.

从定义上来说,这就是一种要结合多种技巧、多个模型来进行的游戏,而且丰富的经验会非常有帮助。

By definition, this is going to be a game which you play with multiple techniques and multiple models, and a lot of experience is very helpful.

我不认为你能在很短时间内就成为一个伟大的投资者,就像你也不可能在很短时间内就成为一个顶尖的骨肿瘤病理学家一样。

I don't think you can become a great investor very rapidly any more than you could become a great bone tumor pathologist very rapidly.

这需要一些经验,所以越早开始越有帮助。

It takes some experience, and that's why it's helpful to get a very early start.
M2
M21:47

不过如果你——我们就假设,我们大家都决定要买一个农场,或者至少考虑买一个农场。

But if you're— let's just say that we all decided we're going to buy a— or think about buying a farm.

然后我们往这里北边开三十英里,发现那边有个农场,每英亩能产一百二十蒲式耳玉米,还能产四十五蒲式耳大豆。

And we go up 30 miles north of here, and we find out that a farm up there can produce 120 bushels of corn, and it can produce 45 bushels of soybeans per acre.

而且我们知道化肥成本是多少,也知道房产税是多少,也知道要付给农民多少钱,让他实际去做这些活。

And we know what fertilizer costs, and we know what the property taxes cost, and we know what we'll have to pay the farmer to actually do the work involved.

这样一来,在相当保守的假设下,我们就能算出一个每英亩能赚多少钱的数字。

And we'll get some number that we can make per acre using fairly conservative assumptions.

再假设一下,当你把这些计算都做完之后,结果是每英亩能给农场主带来七十美元的收益,而且农场主自己都不用亲自下地干活。

And if you— let's just assume that when you get through making those calculations, it turns out to be that you can make $70 an acre to the owner without working at it.

那接下来的问题就是,你愿意为这七十美元付多少钱?

Then the question is, how much do you pay for the $70?

你会不会假设,农业这些年会稍微变得更好一点,所以产量会略微提高一些?

Do you assume that agriculture will get a little bit better over the years so that your yields will be a little higher?

你会不会假设,价格随着时间推移也会慢慢高一点?

Do you assume that prices will work a little higher over time?

这种情况其实并不算多,虽然最近——

They haven't done much of that, although recently.

玉米和大豆这阵子表现还不错。

It's been good with corn and soybeans.

但是从长期来看,农产品价格并没有涨太多。

But over the years, agriculture prices have not done too much.

所以你的假设会偏保守。

So you would be conservative in your assumptions.

那你可能会决定,对于每英亩七十美元的收益,假如你想要百分之七的回报率,那你就会愿意出每英亩一千美元。

And you might decide that for $70 an acre, you know, you would want to— if you decided you wanted a 7% return, you'd pay $1,000 an acre.

那么,如果农地现在卖九百美元一英亩,你就会得到一个买入信号。

Now, if farmland is selling for $900, you know, you're going to have a buy signal.

如果它卖到每英亩一千两百美元,那你就会去看别的机会了。

And if it's selling for $1,200, you're going to look at something else.
M3
M33:05

对。

Right.
M2
M23:06

我们在企业投资上做的也是同样的事。

That's what we do in businesses.

我们是在努力弄清楚,我们现在看的那些企业农场将来会产出什么。

We are trying to figure out what those corporate farms that we're looking at are going to produce.

要做到这一点,我们就得理解它们的竞争地位。

And to do that, we have to understand their competitive position.

我们得理解这个生意的运作规律。

We have to understand the dynamics of the business.

我们还得,怎么说呢,我们还得有能力看到未来。

We have to, you know, we have to be able to look out in the future.

不过就像我前面说过的,有些生意你是看不了太远的。

And like I've said earlier, some businesses you can't look out very far in.

但投资这件事的数学原理,Aesop 早在公元前六百年就讲清楚了。

But the mathematics of investment were set out by Aesop, 600 BC.

他说,双鸟在林,不如一鸟在手。

And he said, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

现在,我们的问题是,那两只鸟什么时候能拿到?

Now, our question is, when do we get the two?

就是说,我们得等多久?

You know, how long do we wait?

灌木丛里真有两只鸟,我们有多大把握?

How sure are we that there are two in the bush?

会不会还不止两只?

Could there be more?

还有,合适的贴现率到底是多少?

You know, what's the right discount rate?

我们就是用这种方式把一个和另一个拿来比较。

And we measure one against the other that way.

我的意思是,我们在看一大堆生意。

I mean, we are looking at a whole bunch of businesses.

它们将来会给我们多少只鸟?

How many birds are they going to give us?

又会在什么时候把这些鸟给我们?

When are they going to give them to us?

然后我们会尽量判断,基本上就是判断,将来我们想买下哪些灌木丛。

And we try to decide which ones, you know, basically which, which, uh, which bushes we want to buy out in the future.

这一切说到底——说到底,就是在评估企业未来分配现金的能力;如果不分配的话,那就是看它未来能不能把现金以很高的回报率再投资。

It's all about— and it's all about evaluating future, future ability to distribute cash or to reinvest cash at high rates if it isn't distributed.

Berkshire 从来没有分配过任何现金,但它创造现金的能力一直在增长;我们把钱留在公司里,是因为我们认为这样能创造出超过一美元的当前价值。

Berkshire's never distributed any cash, but it's grown in its cash-producing abilities, and we retain it because we think we can create more than a dollar of present value.

靠把它留存下来。

By retaining it.

但真正赋予 Berkshire 价值的,是它分配现金的能力。

But it's the ability to distribute cash that gives Berkshire its value.

我们努力让这种分配现金的能力一年一年地提高,然后我们再把这些钱留下来,用一种让一美元变得不止值一美元的方式去投资。

And we try to increase that ability to distribute cash year by year by year, and then we try to keep it and invest it in a way so that a dollar bill is worth more than a dollar.

你可能只对非常少数的生意真正有洞见。

You may have an insight into very few businesses.

我是说,如果我们现在离开这里,路过一个 McDonald's 的摊位,然后你要决定,你愿不愿意花一百万美元买下这个 McDonald's 摊位,还是一百三十万美元,或者九十万美元?

I mean, if we left here and walked by a McDonald's stand, you know, and you decided, would you pay $1 million for that McDonald's stand, or $1.3 million, or $900,000?

你就会去想,未来出现更多竞争的可能性有多大,McDonald's 会不会修改 franchise arrangement,大家还会不会继续吃汉堡,诸如此类,各种各样的问题。

You'd think about how likely it was there would be more competition, how— whether McDonald's could change the franchise arrangement on you, whether people are going to keep eating hamburgers, you know, all kinds of things.

然后你其实会对自己说,这个 McDonald's 摊位会赚 X,也许过几年会变成 X 加百分之五,因为随着时间推移,呃,价格会稍微涨一点。

And you actually would say to yourself, this McDonald's stand will make X, X plus 5% maybe in a couple years, because over time, uh, prices will increase a little.

而这就是投资的全部。

And that's, that's all investing is.

但你必须知道,什么时候你是真的知道自己在干什么;也必须知道,什么时候你已经走出了我所说的能力圈,而你其实一点概念都没有。

But you have to know when you know what you're doing, and you have to know when you're getting outside of what I call your circle of competence and you don't have the faintest idea.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M35:35

对,另外你还得认识到一点,就是我们从来就没有什么系统,能让我们对所有企业的价值都做出正确判断。

Yeah, the other thing you got to recognize that we've never had any system for being able to make correct judgments on the values of all businesses.

我们几乎把所有决策都扔进“太难了”那一堆里。

We throw almost all decisions into the too-hard pile.

然后我们只是从里面筛出少数几个我们能轻松做出的决策。

And we just sift for a few decisions we can make that are easy.

而且这是一种相对比较的过程。

And that's a comparative process.

如果你想找的是一种能力,能在任何时候都准确给所有投资估值,那我们帮不了你。

And if you're looking for an ability to correctly value all investments at all times, we can't help you.
M2
M26:11

对,我们知道怎么跨过一英尺高的栏杆。

No, we know how to step over 1-foot bars.

我们不知道怎么跳过七英尺高的栏杆,但我们确实知道,偶尔该怎么识别出什么是一英尺高的栏杆。

We don't know how to jump over 7-foot bars, but we do know how to recognize occasionally what is a 1-foot bar.

对。

Yeah.

而且,而且我们也很清楚,要离七英尺高的栏杆远一点。

And, and we know enough to stay away from the 7-foot bars too.

第三个。

Number 3.