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一年一度股东大会diss EBITDA的时刻

41 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 4:50
M1
M10:00

我叫 Andy Li Junlin,来自上海的 Loyo Valley Innovation Capital。

My name is Andy Li Junlin from Loyo Valley Innovation Capital from Shanghai.

这是我第六年从上海来到这里。

This is my 6th year from Shanghai to here.

我还想对你们说,Warren 和 Charlie,你们在全球受到数以百万计、甚至数十亿人的高度尊敬和深深喜爱。

I have to say to you too, Warren and Charlie, you are highly respected and deeply loved by millions and millions or even billions globally.

我今天有两个问题。

I have 2 questions today.

第一个问题,你们在给股东的信里说过,你们认为 EBITDA 不是衡量企业价值的好指标。

First question, in your letters to shareholders, you said you believe EBITDA is not a good parameter to value a business.

为什么这么说?

Why is that?

能不能详细解释一下?

Can you elaborate on that?

第二个问题,你们两位都拥有非常成功、也非常幸福的人生。

Second question, you both have very successful and happy lives.

怀着极大的敬意,我想分别问你们两位一个问题。

With great respect, my question is to each of you.

回过头来看,从个人角度来说,你们对人生有没有什么遗憾?

In retrospect, from a personal standpoint, do you have regrets in life?

如果在人生中,有一件事你们可以做得不一样,不管是家庭、个人还是事业方面,

If there is one thing you would have done differently in your life—family, personal or business?

那会是什么?

What is it?

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.
M2
M21:22

嗯,我觉得你不应该指望我们回答个人方面的问题。不过,如果说事业上的遗憾,我会说,我希望自己能更早遇到 Charlie。

Yeah, I don't think you should expect us to answer that on personal, but, uh, uh, if in business, I would say I wish I'd met Charlie earlier.

从我二十九岁、他三十五岁开始,我们一直都非常开心,但如果我们早很多很多年就认识并开始合作,那一定会更加开心。

We've had a lot of fun ever since I was 29 and he was 35, but it would have been, it would have been even more fun if we, if we'd started many, many years earlier.

我们当时有机会在同一家杂货店工作过,只不过不是同一时间。

We had a chance to, we worked in the same grocery store, but but not at the same time.

说到 EBITDA,折旧是一项费用,而且是最糟糕的一类费用。

In respect to EBITDA, depreciation is an expense, and it's the worst kind of an expense.

你知道,我们很喜欢谈浮存金。浮存金的情况是,我们先拿到钱,之后才发生费用。

You know, we love to talk about float, and float is where we get the money first and we have the expense later.

而折旧是你先把钱花出去,然后,你知道,过一段时间之后才把这笔钱记录成费用。

Depreciation is where you spend the money first, you know, and, and, and then record the expense later.

这其实是反向的浮存金,不是什么好事。

And it's reverse float, and it's not a good thing.

而且,如果把这一点放进估值倍数里,那么在其他条件都相同的情况下,买一家没有折旧的企业要好得多,因为它基本上不需要在固定资产上进行投资,却能赚到 X;相比之下,另一家公司要经过大量折旧才能赚到同样的 X,那就差多了。

Uh, and to have that enter into a multiple, it's much better to buy a business that has everything else being equal, has no depreciation because it has essentially no investment in fixed assets and makes X, than it is to buy a company that, that where there's a lot of depreciation in getting to X.

实际上,我明年可能会再多写一点这方面的内容,因为这实在是一种大规模的集体误解。

And actually, I may write a little bit more on that next year just because it's such a mass delusion.

当然,从华尔街的利益来说,他们极其愿意把注意力集中到所谓的 EBITDA 上,因为这会带来更高的借贷能力、更高的估值,以及诸如此类的好处。

And of course, it's in the interest of Wall Street enormously to focus on something called EBITDA because it results in higher borrowing power, higher valuations, and all of that sort of thing.

所以,过去二十年里它变得非常流行,但这是一个非常具有误导性的统计指标,也可能被用来做非常有害的事情。

So, it's become very popular in the last 20 years, but it's a very misleading statistic and can be used in very pernicious ways.

Charlie,你对这两个话题中的任何一个有什么看法吗?

Charlie, on either one of those subjects?
M3
M33:03

我觉得你低估了这个话题的可怕之处,也低估了那些把这个词引入企业估值的人有多么令人作呕。

I think you've understated the horrors of the subject and the disgusting nature of the people that brought that term into the valuation of business.

这就好比一个房地产租赁经纪人,你有一套一千平方英尺、准备出租的房子,他却说里面有两千平方英尺。

It was just— it would be like a leasing broker of real estate who's— you had a 1,000-square-foot suite to be leased, and he says it's got 2,000 square feet in it.

这不是一种光彩的行为。

That's not honorable behavior.

而这个词就是这样进入日常使用的。

And that's the way that term got into common usage.

一个神志正常的人,都不会认为折旧不是一项费用。

Nobody in his right mind would think that depreciation is not an expense.
M2
M23:41

对,但这显然非常符合华尔街的利益。

Yeah, but it's very much in the interest of Wall Street.
M3
M33:45

没错,所以他们才这么做。

Yes, that's why, that's why they did it.

对,这让这个估值倍数看起来更低了。

Yeah, it made the multiple seem lower.
M2
M23:50

而且真正让人惊讶的是,大家居然接受了这种说法。

And what's amazing is the way it's accepted, actually.

不过,不管怎么说,这正好说明了人们是怎么使用语言的。你知道,他们会推销那些对自己有利的概念。

But anyway, it, it just illustrates how people use language, you know, and, and sell concepts that work to their own use.

还有“二加二十”也是同样的情况。

And, and two and twenty has the same sort of thing.

我是说,扣除百分之二的管理费和百分之二十的业绩提成之后,真正跑赢业绩的那部分资金,和因此产生的费用相比,不管是涉及的人数,还是涉及的金额,我可以保证,结果都足以对这种安排提出严厉的控诉。

I mean, the number of, the number of people, the amount of money that's overperformed after paying two and twenty compared to the expenses that have been incurred, I will assure you, makes for a terrible indictment of that particular arrangement.

但只要这种东西卖得出去,他们就会继续卖。

But as long as it can get sold, it will get sold.
M3
M34:32

现在商学院里也开始用这个说法了。

And now they use it in the business schools.

那可真是恐怖加倍。

Now that is, that is horror squared.

我是说,一群骗子开始用一个术语,这已经够糟糕了;但当这个说法变得 настолько 普遍,连商学院都照搬的时候,那可不是什么好结果。

I mean, I mean, it's bad enough that a bunch of thieves start using a term, but when it gets so common that the business schools copy it, that is not a— that's not a good result.