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1999年股东大会 · 巴菲特:我为何不投资微软公司

65 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 7:07
M1
M10:00

对。

Yes.

我叫 Alan Nagan,来自 Virginia 的 Reston。

My name is Alan Nagan from Reston, Virginia.

我知道你喜欢投资那些成功的故事,但你不喜欢买 high-tech。

I know you like to buy into success stories, but you don't like to buy high-tech.

可在我看来,比如说 Microsoft 这个例子,十年以后他们还是会做软件开发,就像十年以后 Coke 还是会卖含糖饮料一样。

And it seems to me, say, in the case of Microsoft, that 10 years from now they'll be doing software development just like 10 years from now Coke will be selling sugared water.

所以我想问的是,既然看起来有些公司,尤其是 high-tech 公司,也是可以预测的,那你为什么会那样看?

And what I'm wondering is why you feel that way when it seems certain companies, high-tech companies, are predictable.

还有,看起来你在九十年代初也提过,你本来打算买一家 pharmaceutical company,这在我看来也挺像 high-tech 的。

And it also seems that in the early '90s, you mentioned you were going to buy a pharmaceutical company, which also seems like high-tech to me.

所以,这就是我的问题。

So, that's my question.
M2
M20:48

对,是这样,我们——我想我们当时的意思是,对于那些 pharmaceutical companies,我们不知道该怎么挑出具体哪一家。

Yeah, well, we—I think we said that with the pharmaceutical companies, we wouldn't have known how to pick out which one.

我们会觉得,作为一个整体,这个行业会表现不错。

We would have thought the industry as a group would do well.

至少从一九九三年那样的价位来看是这样。

From those levels of 1993.

你没法用类似的价位去买 high-tech companies——也就是说,它们的估值根本不像 pharmaceutical companies 在九三年时那么低。

You cannot buy high-tech companies at anything like—at levels that are commensurate with the levels that the pharmaceutical companies were selling at in '93.

你刚才问题的前半部分,我会这么说:我认为,要判断 Coke 在软饮料世界里会享有多强的相对优势,要比判断 Microsoft 在软件世界里到底能拥有多强的优势,容易得多。

You know, I would—and getting to the first part of your question, I think it's much easier to predict the relative strength that Coke will enjoy in the soft drink world than the strength, the amount of strength that Microsoft will possess in the software world.

这完全不是在贬低 Microsoft。

That's not to knock Microsoft at all.

如果我非得押注在谁身上,那我当然会押 Microsoft,而且如果必须下注的话,我会下很重;但问题是,我并不一定非得下注。

If I had to bet on anybody, I'd certainly bet on Microsoft, bet heavily if I had to bet, but I don't have to bet.

而且我看 software 那个世界,没有看 soft drink 那个世界那么清楚。

And I don't see that world as clearly as I see the soft drink world.

当然,某个对 software 非常熟悉的人,完全可能就看得很清楚;如果他们确实有更强的认知,而且也据此行动,那他们凭这种更高明的认知赚到钱,是完全应该的。

Now, somebody that has a lot of familiarity with software may very well see it that way, and they're entitled to—if it's true they have superior knowledge and they act on it, they're entitled to make money from that superior knowledge.

这没有任何问题。

There's nothing wrong with that.

我知道我自己没有那种知识。我只是觉得——而且我确实这么认为——如果你对商业有一种跨越几十年的总体认识,你会觉得他们所在的那个行业,比 soft drink 行业更难预测。

I know I don't have that kind of knowledge, and I simply think—and I do think that it's—that if you have a general knowledge of business over decades, that you would regard the industry they're in as less predictable than the soft drink industry.

当然,也有可能虽然它更难预测,但能赚到的钱也多得多,所以如果你判断对了,回报会大很多。

Now, it may also be that even though it's less predictable, that there's a whole lot more money to be made, so that if you're right, that the payoff is much larger.

但我们非常愿意放弃那种很大的潜在回报,去换一个更确定的回报。这就是我们的思维方式。

But we are perfectly willing to trade away a big payoff for a certain payoff, and that's, that's, that's the way we're put together.

这并不是在否定别人做那种判断的能力。

It does not knock the ability of other people to, to make those decisions.

我是说,我第一次见到 Bill Gates 是在一九九一年。

I mean, I asked, first time I met Bill Gates in 1991.

我问他,如果你要去一个荒岛待十年,只能把你的钱投在 high-tech 行业里的两家公司,你会选哪两家?

I said, if you're going to go away on a desert island for 10 years, you had to put your stock in 2 companies in the high-tech business, which would they be?

他点了两只非常好的股票。

And he named 2 very good stocks.

如果我当时把那两只都买了,我们赚的钱会比我们买 Coca-Cola 赚的还要多得多。

And if I'd bought both of them, we'd have made a lot more money than we made even buying Coca-Cola.

但他当时也会同时说,如果是他自己要离开,他还是宁愿买 Coca-Cola,因为那件事他会觉得更有把握。

But he also would have said at the same time that if he went away, he'd rather buy Coca-Cola because he would have felt sure about that happening.

就是这样,不同的人懂不同的生意,最重要的是,你得知道哪些是你真正懂的,以及你是不是在我所说的那个 circle of competence 里面运作。

It's, you know, different people understand different businesses, and the important thing is to know which ones you do understand and when you're operating within what I call your circle of competence.

而 software business 不在我的 circle of competence 之内,我觉得也不在 Charlie 的之内。

And the software business is not within my circle of competence, and I don't think it's within Charlie's.
M3
M33:22

Charlie 呢?

Charlie?

嗯,这一点我当然同意。

Well, I certainly agree with that.

我觉得还有一些很有意思的问题,比如说,整个这个领域到底还能走多远。

I think there are interesting questions, too, about how far the whole field can go.

拿低于音速的喷气式飞机旅行来说吧。

Take jet airplane travel below the speed of sound.

就技术层面来看,它已经很长很长时间都基本没什么变化了。

It's been pretty static in terms of the technology for a long, long time.

你知道,大型的 Boeing 客机,跟二三十年前相比其实差不了太多。

You know, the big Boeing airliner is much the same as it was 20 or 30 years ago.

而且,而且我觉得——这里面很多企业都相当依赖技术继续飞速前进,继续为人们提供越来越多的东西。

And, and I think it's— a lot of these businesses are quite dependent on the technology continuing to gallop and do more and more for people.

拿 pharmaceuticals 来说。

Take pharmaceuticals.

如果再也发明不出新的 pharmaceuticals,那这会是个很糟糕的行业。

If they never invented any more pharmaceuticals, it would be a terrible business.

还有,我也不知道,一旦家里有了几乎无限的 bandwidth,再加上多得多的选择之后,会发生什么。

And I don't know what happens once you get unlimited bandwidth into the house and way more options.

而且到了某一个点之后,我感觉,人们对这个领域的兴趣可能会出现过剩。

And at a— beyond a certain point, it strikes me that there might be a surfeit of anybody's interest in the field.

我不知道那个点在哪里,是二十年后还是三十年后,但这多少会影响我的看法。

I don't know where that point is, whether it's 20 years out or 30 years out, but it would affect me a little.
M2
M24:34

十年以后,Dilly Bar 还会在,这件事比我们知道的任何一个 software application 十年后还在,要确定得多;不过这也许是因为我们懂 Dilly Bar,不懂 software。

The Dilly Bar is more certain to be here in 10 years than any software application that we know, but that's maybe because we understand Dilly Bars and not software.

在整个 United States,你知道,它毫无疑问是全世界最富裕的国家,在整个 United States,大概也就只有四百家公司,全部加起来四百家,能做到税后每年赚两亿美元。

In the whole United States, which is, you know, is by far the most prosperous country in the world, the whole United States, there are probably around 400 companies, 400 total companies that are earning $200 million a year after tax.

这四百家里面,你是能叫得出名字来的。

Of those 400, you can name them.

我的意思是,你可以先从银行说起,比如 Citigroup、Chase、Wells Fargo,你一下子就能说出十家、十五家。

I mean, you can start, you know, if you say banks, you can say Citigroup and Chase and Wells Fargo, and you can name 10 or 15 of them.

要是说消费品,你可以说 Procter & Gamble、Coca-Cola、Gillette,你也能一下子说出一大串。

And if you name consumer goods, you can say Procter & Gamble and Coca-Cola and Gillette, and you can name a whole bunch of them.

这四百家里面,你几乎——你大概能说出三百五十家的名字。

You can almost— of those 400, you can probably name 350.

如果五年之后,这张名单上不是四百家,可能会变成四百五十家,也许四百七十五家。

If 5 years from now, instead of 400 being on that list, there'll probably be 450 on the list, maybe 475.

这里面有很多,会是那些现在年利润在一亿五千万到两亿美元之间的公司。

A lot of those will be companies that are earning between $150 and $200 million now.

所以大概会有二十家,差不多二十家这种数量,可以说,是凭空冒出来的。

So there'll probably be 20, some number like 20, that, call it, come from nowhere.
M3
M35:45

对。

Yeah.
M2
M25:46

现在,如果你去看今天市场上那些股价已经隐含着它们眼下就该有两亿美元或以上盈利水平的公司,你会发现,在 high-tech 领域里,这样的公司多得很。

Now, if you look at the number of companies that are selling today at a price which implies $200 million or more of earnings right today, you will find dozens and dozens in the high-tech arena.

而且,你知道,这里面有很大一部分公司,最后都达不到人们的预期。

And, you know, a very large percentage of those companies are not going to fulfill people's expectations.

我没法告诉你具体是哪几家,但我知道,不会有几十家几十家又几十家这样的公司,最后都能一年赚上几亿美元。

I can't tell you which ones, but I know there won't be dozens and dozens and dozens of those companies make a couple hundred million dollars a year.

而我也知道,它们现在的股价,已经高到要求它们必须赚到那么多钱,甚至赚得更多。

And I know they are now selling at prices that require them to be making that much money or more.

这种事没那么常发生。

It just doesn't happen that often.

你知道,几年前 biotech 可是红得发紫。

You know, biotech was all the rage some years back.

那些公司里,有多少家现在一年能赚上几亿美元?

How many of those companies are making a couple hundred million dollars a year?

这种事就是不会那么发生。

It just doesn't happen.

在资本主义社会里,想在一个行业里赚很多很多钱,没那么容易。

It's not that easy to make lots of money in a business in a capitalistic society.

每天都有人盯着你在做什么,想办法看怎么能做得比你更好,然后,你知道,要么把价格压得比你低,要么推出更好的产品,或者不管是什么别的办法。

People are looking at what you're doing every day and trying to figure out a way to do it better and to, you know, underprice you or bring out a better product or whatever it may be.

确实有少数一些公司做到了,但你想想,在美国,经历了这么多年、这么多年、这么多年非常出色的经济发展之后,

And a few companies make it, but here in the United States, after all of these decades and decades and decades of wonderful economic development.

达到那种规模、也就是市值能到三十亿美元这个水平的公司,大概也就只有四百家。

We've got about 400 companies that have hit the level that would be required of a company that would have a market cap of $3 billion.

而且有些公司几乎是一上市,第一天市值就到三十亿美元了。

And some companies are getting $3 billion of market cap the day they come out, virtually.

所以这里面有些——你得好好想想这里面的数学关系。

And so there's some—you want to think about the math of all this.

所以,这就是……

So that's...