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1996年股东大会 · 芒格:没有我和巴菲特的伯克希尔也会很好,除了一件事。

59 段 · 2 位说话人 · 原片 5:40
M1
M10:00

如果有股东非常担心 Berkshire 变成一个靠一个人撑着的公司,你会怎么回应这个问题?

How would you respond to the question of a stockholder that's really concerned about Berkshire being a one-man show?

对,不过,Berkshire 不是一个人的戏。

Yeah, well, Berkshire is not a one-man show.

就资本配置来说,它是两个人的戏。

It's a two-man show in terms of capital allocation.

这一点目前是毫无疑问的。

There's no question about that at present.

但公司实际是由很多经理人在运营,他们干得非常出色,而且在推进业务的过程中,并不需要 Charlie 或我去给他们什么指导。

But it's run by many managers that are doing an outstanding job and that don't need any guidance from Charlie or me as they go along.

不过我想说,你知道,我基本上会带着我所有的 Berkshire 股票离开这个世界;在那之后很长一段时间里,这些股票要么由家族持有,要么由基金会持有,这要看死亡顺序怎么安排。

But I might say that, you know, I will die with all of my Berkshire stock essentially, and that stock will be held either in the family or in a foundation depending on the order of death for a long time thereafter.

所以,对于后续管理这个问题,没有谁会比我更在意。我的意思是,这件事绝不会随着我的去世就结束,对 Buffett 家族或者 Buffett Foundation 来说也不会结束。

So, there's no one that's more concerned about the subsequent management issue than I. I mean, this is not something that ends at all on my death, and it doesn't end for the Buffett family or the Buffett Foundation.

所以,这个问题 Charlie 和我都认真想过。

So, it's a subject that Charlie and I have both thought about.

最有可能的情况是——你们得先摆脱“这是一个人的戏”这种想法,因为此时此刻,Berkshire 旗下有三万三千人在外面工作。

The most likely situation—you got to get away from the idea that it's a one-man show because right now we've got 33,000 people working for Berkshire out there, you know, as we speak.

而我却坐在这儿,你知道,看一些关于我自己的电影之类的。

And I'm sitting around, you know, watching movies about myself or something.

我的意思是,你们也看得出来,我对这个地方到底有多“关键”。

I mean, you can see how vital I am to the place.
M2
M21:17

这——

The—
M1
M11:19

所以,这个——不过问题在于——还有,除了配置资本之外,我们做的另一件事,就是识别这些经理人,而且希望我们能让他们愿意留下来,为 Berkshire 工作。

So the, the—but the question—and, and the other, the other thing we do besides allocate capital is we do identify these managers and, and, and hopefully we make it attractive for them to stay and work for Berkshire.

不过你知道,做这件事并不需要什么一百五十的 IQ 之类的。

But that, you know, that doesn't require 150 IQ or anything to do that.

它真正需要的是一种敏感度,知道人们为什么愿意每天早上起床,去做他们在做的事。

It does require a certain sensitivity to why people want to get up in the morning and do what they do.

等到我不在了的时候,最合乎逻辑的安排,在某个时点上——这取决于具体是什么时候发生,不过 Charlie 比我大一点——很可能还是会拆成两个职能,由两个人来负责,但不会完全像 Charlie 和我现在这样的运作方式。

And when, when I'm not around, the logical, at some point, depends on exactly when it happens, but Charlie's a little older than I am, and it's likely that it will be broken into a two-person function again, but not exactly the way Charlie and I function.

也就是说,会有一个人负责投资和资本配置。

And that is that there will be someone in charge of investments and capital allocation.

我在年报里提到过 Lou Simpson 的位置,因为他比我年轻。

I mentioned Lou Simpson's position, because he is younger than I am, in the annual report.
M2
M22:13

对。

Yeah.
M1
M12:13

然后会有另一个人负责运营,而这个人我们现在组织里就有。

And then someone in charge of operations, and we have that person in the organization now.

现在,我不知道等我去世时会是什么情况,因为可能是二十分钟后,也可能是二十年后,所以到那时——因此我没法具体点出是哪些人。

Now, I don't know what the situation will be when I die because it could be in 20 minutes or it could be in 20 years, and when that— so I can't specifically name the individuals.

但现在,这两个职能我们都已经有人选。

We have the individuals now for both those functions.

二十年后,这同样两个职能我们也会有人选。

We'll have the individuals for the same functions 20 years from now.

我只是不知道到时候会不会还是同样的人。

I don't know whether they'll be the same people.
M2
M22:37

好。

Okay.
M1
M12:39

不过,这其实是个很合乎逻辑的经营方式。

But it's quite a logical way to run the business.

GEICO 就是这么运作的,现在也还是这么运作,而且已经这样很多年了。

GEICO was run that way and still is run that way and has been for some years.

在我看来,property-casualty insurance companies 的经营方式一直特别不合逻辑,因为它们长期都是由承保这一端主导的,可它们明明还有同样重要的投资这一端。

It's always struck me as terribly illogical the way property-casualty insurance companies are run because they've been dominated by the underwriting side of the business, and here they have this important investment side.

但一直以来——几乎每一家公司都实际上服从于承保端。

But it's always been—virtually every company has been subservient to the underwriting end.

GEICO 很合乎逻辑地在很多年前就设立了一个 co-CEO 的安排,最开始是 Bill Snyder,以及在那之前是 Tony Nicely,负责业务中的承保端,而 Lou Simpson 负责投资端。

GEICO very logically set up a co-CEO arrangement some years back where originally Bill Snyder and, before that, Tony Nicely ran the underwriting end of the business and Lou Simpson ran the investment side.

而这两种职能是非常不一样的。

And those are two very different functions.

逻辑上来说,大多数情况下,同一个人并不适合同时承担这两种职能。

Same person logically doesn't fit both functions in most cases.

我的意思是,刚好同一个人同时适合这两种职能,这种情况很少见。

I mean, it's a rarity when the same person happens to fit both functions.

所以,GEICO 用这种方式运作得非常好。

So, GEICO worked very well that way.

现在也还是这么运作,而且也还很好。

Still works that way.

Lou 负责投资,Tony 负责承保。

Lou runs investments, Tony runs underwriting.

至于 Berkshire,稍微有点不同,算是这个模式的一个变体,但本质上,在 Berkshire 总部,你需要有人来监督,不过不要过多插手,同时还要确保你找的是合适的经理人,而且你对他们是公平的。

And Berkshire, slightly different, it's a variant on it, but essentially at Berkshire headquarters you need someone overseeing and not meddling in them too much, but making sure you've got the right manager and you're treating them fairly.

你需要有人负责运营这一边,也需要有人负责投资和资本配置这一边。

You need someone on the operating side, you need someone on the investment and capital allocation side.

我们现在已经有这样的人了。

We've got those people now.

而且等那一天真的发生的时候,我们也会有这样的人。

And we'll have them, you know, whenever it happens too.

所以,这就是——这就是这个架构,而且我们手里有一些非常优秀的企业。

But that's the— that is the structure and we've got some very good businesses.

而且你知道,没有人买 See's Candy,是因为他们觉得我正坐在 Omaha 的某间办公室里。

And, you know, nobody's buying See's Candy because they think I'm sitting in some office in Omaha.

也没有人买 GEICO 的保险,是因为你知道,我的名字挂在那里,当着 chairman 或者 CEO。

And no one's buying a GEICO insurance policy because, you know, my name is there as chairman or CEO.

这些企业本身就是非常了不起的企业。

The businesses are marvelous businesses.

它们会继续运转得很好。

They'll continue very well.

到那时候会有资本配置的问题,就像现在一样。

And there will be a capital allocation problem then just like there is now.

而且也会有如何让优秀的经理人继续留任、并且公平对待他们的问题,而这是可以解决的问题。

And there will be the problem of keeping good managers in place and treating them fairly, and that's a solvable problem.

所以,这就是从 Kiewit Plaza 看出去的未来。

So, that's the future as seen from Kiewit Plaza.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M24:38

对,如果你把所有这些资产在脑子里过一遍,我想你很快就会得出结论:现在已经形成了很强的惯性,就算没有我们,它们也会运转得非常好。

Yes, if you just run your mind through all the assets, I think you will quickly decide that there are large momentums in place that would do very well without us.

我的意思是,难道就因为 Berkshire Hathaway 有个经理人去世了,Coca-Cola 就会突然卖不动了吗?

I mean, is Coca-Cola gonna suddenly stop selling because some manager's dead at Berkshire Hathaway.

你知道,难道人们就会停止使用 Gillette 的剃须刀片吗?

You know, are the people gonna stop using Gillette razor blades?

GEICO 难道就会突然不再被聪明地经营了吗?

Is GEICO suddenly gonna stop being intelligently run?

Nebraska Furniture Mart 难道就会少努力一点吗?

Is the Nebraska Furniture Mart gonna try any less hard?

所以你可以说,现有这些资产,是被非常用心地组合在一起的,为的就是不需要总部持续不断地输出聪明才智。

So the existing assets, you can argue, have been lovingly put together so as not to require continuing intelligence at headquarters.
M1
M15:17

而且,而且,那个——

And, and, what—.
M2
M25:24

这里面的确有一个不利之处,就是我认为,如果指望继任者在做新投资这件事上,能像 Warren 过去那样出色,那是不合理的。

There would be a disadvantage in that I think it would be unreasonable to expect that a successor would be as good at making new investments as Warren has been in the past.

不过,唉,那也就只能这样了。

Well, that's just too damn bad.
M1
M15:39

对。

Yeah.