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2000年股东大会 · 巴菲特和芒格心中,什么是真正的价值投资

94 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 9:37
F1
F10:00

早上好,Buffett 先生,Munger 先生。

Good morning, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger.

我叫 Steve Yates。

My name is Steve Yates.

我来自 Chicago。

I'm from Chicago.

我是 Berkshire 的股东,这是我第六年来参加这个会。

I'm a Berkshire shareholder, and this is my 6th year coming to this meeting.

我想感谢你们这些年来投入的所有时间,还有给我们的建议。

I'd like to thank you for all your time and advice through the years.

真的非常棒。

It's been great.

我还想感谢今年那些卖出 Berkshire 的好心人,让我们有机会用超级便宜的价格,买到这家全世界最伟大的公司更多的股份。

I'd also like to thank all those wonderful people who sold Berkshire this year for giving us an opportunity to purchase more of the world's greatest company for dirt-cheap prices.
M1
M10:26

我们会转达你的感谢。

We will convey your thanks.
F1
F10:29

我还持有另一只股票,现在的交易价格是过去十二个月盈利的四倍。

I own another stock which sells for 4 times current trailing earnings.

每个季度我们都会收到一份报告。

Every quarter we get a report.

盈利在增长,销售在增长,现金流在增长,净资产基础在扩大,市场份额在提升,可股价却在下跌。

Earnings go up, sales go up, cash flow goes up, the equity base expands, they gain market share, and the stock goes down.

这家公司五年的年化增长率有百分之六十,但市盈率只有四倍。

The company has a 60% 5-year annualized growth rate and sells at 4 times earnings.

我有两个相关的问题。

I have 2 related questions.

第一个,这到底算成长股还是价值股?也请你们给我们讲讲这两个词的定义。

First, is this a growth stock or a value stock, and could you please give us your definitions of these terms?

第二,这家公司是卖房车的。

Second, the company sells recreational vehicles.

休闲娱乐领域的人口趋势——像 RV、cruise line、golf equipment 这些——看起来都相当不错。

Demographic trends in the recreation and leisure areas—RVs, cruise lines, golf equipment, etc.—seem to be quite good.

你们觉得 Berkshire 在这方面有机会吗?

Do you see any opportunities for Berkshire here?

谢谢。

Thanks.
M1
M11:15

嗯,关于成长和价值这个问题——我们在过去的年报里已经谈过了,它们并不是两种截然不同的企业类别。

Well, the question about growth and value is—we've addressed in past annual reports, but they are not 2 distinct categories of business.

任何一家企业的价值,都是它从现在到 Judgment Day 之间能够吐出多少现金的现值——如果你知道这个数,你就可以非常精确地算出它今天值多少钱。

Every business is worth the present—if you knew what it was going to be able to disgorge in cash between now and Judgment Day, you could come to a precise figure as to what it is worth today.

这里面的一个因素,可能是它有没有能力把新增资本用在很好的回报率上,而大多数被归类为成长型的公司,都具备这个特点。

Now, elements of that can be the ability to use additional capital at good rates, and most growth companies that are characterized as growth companies have that as a characteristic.

但在我们脑子里,成长和价值之间并没有什么区别。

But there is no distinction in our minds between growth and value.

我们看待每一家公司,都是把它当成一个价值判断。

Every business we look at as being a value proposition.

增长的潜力,以及这种增长背后能不能伴随着良好的经济效益,都是估值方程的一部分,呃,在做评估的时候都是要考虑的。

The potential for growth and the likelihood of good economics being attached to that growth are part of the equation, uh, in evaluation.

但归根结底,它们全都是价值——全都是价值判断。

But they're all value—they're all value decisions.

呃,一家不分红、每年增长百分之百、你知道的、现在还在亏钱的公司——那也是一个价值判断。

Uh, a company that pays no dividends, growing 100% a year, you know, is losing money now—that's, that's a value decision.

你得判断你最终能拿到多少价值。

You have to decide how much value you're going to get.

其实这非常简单。

Actually, it's, it's very simple.

第一本投资入门读物——你猜是什么时候写的?

The first investment primer—when would you guess it was written?

据我所知,第一本投资入门读物,而且里面的建议还相当不错,是 Aesop 在大约公元前六百年讲出来的。

The first investment primer that I know of, and it was pretty good advice, was delivered in about 600 BC by Aesop.

你会记得,Aesop 说过,双鸟在林,不如一鸟在手。

And Aesop, you'll remember, said, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

顺便说一句,Aesop 并不知道那是公元前六百年。

Incidentally, Aesop did not know it was 600 BC.

他是很聪明,但也没聪明到那个程度。

He was smart, but he wasn't that smart.

Aesop 其实已经抓到重点了,但他没把话说完,因为这里面还连着另外几个问题。

Now, Aesop was onto something, but he didn't finish it because there's a couple of other questions that go along with that.

不过,这本质上就是一个投资公式。

But it is an investment equation.

一鸟在手,胜过林中两鸟。

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

他忘了说明,你到底什么时候能从林子里拿到那两只鸟;他也忘了说,你得拿什么样的利率来衡量这件事。

He forgot to say exactly when you were going to get the 2 from the bush, and he forgot to say what interest rates were that you had to measure this against.

但如果他把这两个因素也讲出来,那他就等于给接下来两千六百年的投资下了定义。

But if he'd given those 2 factors, he would have defined investment for the next 2,600 years.

因为一鸟在手——你知道——你愿意拿手里这一只鸟去交换,而这就是投资。

Because a bird in the hand is, you know, you will trade a bird in the hand, which is investing.

你今天先把现金拿出去。

You lay out cash today.

然后问题就在于,作为一个投资决策,你得评估林子里到底有多少只鸟。

And then the question is, as an investment decision, you have to evaluate how many birds are in the bush.

你可能觉得林子里有两只鸟,也可能觉得有三只鸟,而你还得判断它们什么时候会出来。

You may think there are 2 birds in the bush or 3 birds in the bush, and you have to decide when they're going to come out.

以及你会在什么时候把它们拿到手。

And when you're going to acquire them.

现在,如果利率是百分之五,而你会在五年后从林子里拿到两只鸟——相对于现在拿到一只——那么,林中两鸟显然比现在手里这一鸟要好得多。

Now, if interest rates are 5% and you're going to get 2 birds from the bush in 5 years, we'll say, versus 1 now, uh, 2 birds in the bush are much better than a bird in the hand now.

所以你会想,你会愿意拿手里这一只鸟去换林子里的两只鸟,因为如果你五年后能拿到它们,那大致相当于每年百分之十四的复利回报,而利率只有百分之五。

So you want to, you want to trade your bird in the hand and say, I'll take 2 birds in the bush, because if you're going to get them in 5 years, that's roughly 14% compounded annually, and interest rates are only 5%.

但如果利率是百分之二十,那你就不会接受五年后再拿到林子里的两只鸟。

But if interest rates were 20%, you would decline to take 2 birds in the bush 5 years from now.

你会说,这不够好,因为按百分之二十算,如果我就把这只鸟留在手里,让它复利增长,五年后我拥有的鸟会比林子里的两只还多。

You would say that's not good enough because at 20%, if I just keep this bird in my hand and compound it, I'll have more birds than 2 birds in the bush in 5 years.

那么,这跟增长有什么关系呢?

Now, what's all that got to do with growth?

嗯,通常人们一提到增长,就会联想到林子里有更多的鸟,但你还是得判断你什么时候能拿到它们。

Well, usually growth people associate with a lot more birds in the bush, but you still have to decide when you're going to get them.

而且你还得拿这个去跟利率比较,也得拿它去跟别的林子、别的——你知道——别的公式比较。

And you have to measure that against interest rates, and you have to measure it against other bushes and other, you know, other equations.

投资其实就这么回事。

And that's all, that's all investing is.

它就是一个价值判断,基于——你知道——它到底值多少,那个林子里有多少只鸟,你什么时候能拿到它们,以及利率是多少。

It's a value decision based on, you know, what it is worth, how many birds are in that bush, when you're going to get them, and what interest rates are.

现在,如果你付出五千亿美元——而且我们买股票的时候,总是会按买下整个企业来思考,因为这样我们会像商人一样思考,而不是像股票投机者那样思考。

Now, if you pay $500 billion—and when we buy a stock, we always think in terms of buying the whole enterprise because it enables us to think as businessmen rather than as stock speculators.

所以我们就假设有这么一家公司,前景非常棒,现在不给你任何回报,而你是按五千亿美元的估值买下它。

So let's just take a company that has marvelous prospects, is paying you nothing now, and you buy it at a valuation of $500 billion.

那么,如果你觉得百分之十是合适的回报率——这个数字你可以自己定——那就意味着,如果它今年什么都不付给你,但从明年开始支付,它就必须能够永续地每年付给你五百五十亿美元。

Now, if you feel that 10% is the appropriate rate of return, and you can pick your figure, that means that if it pays you nothing this year but starts paying next year, it has to be able to pay you $55 billion in perpetuity.
M2
M25:41

对。

Yes.
M1
M15:41

每一年都得这样。

Each year.

但如果它要到第三年才开始支付,那它就必须永续地付给你六百零五亿美元,永续地付,才能证明现在这个价格是合理的。

But if it's not going to pay until the 3rd year, then it has to pay you $60.5 billion in perpetuity, in perpetuity, to justify the present price.

你每多等一年,才从林子里拿出一只鸟,就意味着你必须拿出更多的鸟。

Every year that you wait to take a bird out of the bush means that you have to take out more birds.

道理就这么简单。

It's that simple.

我心里会怀疑,有时候人们按某个价格买了十股股票,相当于用五千亿美元的估值去买一家企业,他们是不是真的想清楚了这里面隐含的数学关系,想清楚这项投资到底得交出什么样的回报。

And I question in my mind whether sometimes people who pay $500 billion implicitly for a business by buying 10 shares of stock at some price are really thinking of the mathematics implicit in what they are doing to deliver.

我们就假设,这家企业只会延迟一年才开始给你分现金,而你想要百分之十的回报,你付出了五千亿美元。

Let's just assume that there's only going to be a 1-year delay before the business starts paying out to you, and you want to get a 10% return, and you pay $500 billion.

那就意味着,它必须年复一年地拿出五百五十亿美元的现金分给你。

That means $55 billion of cash that they have to be able to disgorge to you year after year after year.

要做到这一点,它税前利润可能得做到八百亿美元,或者接近这个数。

To do that, they have to make perhaps $80 billion or close to it pre-tax.

你现在可以看看全世界的企业,看看有多少家能赚到税前八百亿美元,或者七百亿、六百亿、五百亿、四百亿、三百亿,你会发现一家都找不出来。

Now you might look around at the universe of businesses in this world and see how many are earning $80 billion pre-tax, or $70 or $60 or $50 or $40 or $30, and you won't find any.

所以,这就要求盈利能力出现非常惊人的变化,才能从那片灌木丛里给你飞出足够多的鸟,让你觉得值得把手里的那只鸟放掉。

Uh, so it requires a rather extraordinary change in profitability to give you enough birds out of that particular bush to make it worthwhile to give up the one that you have in your hand.

你问题的第二部分是,我们愿不愿意用四倍市盈率去买一家很棒的企业,我想这点连 Charlie 都会感兴趣。

Second part of your question about whether we'd be willing to buy a wonderful business at 4 times earnings, I think I could get even Charlie interested in that.

不过,还是听 Charlie 自己来说吧。

So, but let's hear it from Charlie.
M2
M27:14

我倒想知道那是哪一家。

I'd like to know what that is.
M1
M17:19

他就盼着你这么问呢,那个把自己全部净资产都押在这只股票上、而且还面对一群跑不掉听众的人。

He was hoping you would ask that, the fellow that's got all his net worth in this stock and who has a captive audience.

告诉我们是哪家吧。

Tell us what it is.

你得告诉我们。

You got to tell us.

我们求你了。

We're begging you.
F1
F17:30

你们是想知道公司名字吗?

You want the name of the company?
M1
M17:31

我们就是想知道公司名字。

We want the name of the company.

我们太想知道名字了。

We're dying to get the name.

等我先把铅笔拿出来。

Wait till I get my pencil out.
M2
M27:35

好。

Okay.
F1
F17:37

它叫 National RV,总部在 California,他们卖的是 recreational vehicles。

It's called National RV, and it's based in California, and they sell recreational vehicles.
M1
M17:45

好。

Okay.

好吧,这里坐着一群手里有鸟的人,我们就看看他们接下来会怎么对待 National RV。

Well, you've got a crowd of people who have birds in the hand, and we will see what they do in terms of National RV.

Charlie,关于增长和价值这些,你还有什么要补充的吗?

Charlie, do you have anything further on growth and value, etc.?

各位,仔细看看他。

Watch him carefully, folks.
M2
M28:07

嗯,我同意,所有聪明的投资本质上都是价值投资。

Well, I agree that all intelligent investing is value investing.

你必须买到的东西,要比你实际付出的价格更值钱,这本身就是一种价值判断。

You have to acquire more than you really pay for, and that's a value judgment.

不过,你可以用很多不同的方法去寻找那些比你付出更值钱的东西。

But you can look for more than you're paying for in a lot of different ways.

你可以用各种筛选条件,在整个投资 universe 里一层层筛。

You can use filters to sift the investment universe.

而且,呃,如果你坚持买那些不可能优秀到值得你放进保险箱里一放就是四十年的股票,但它们又被低估了,那你就得一直不停地换来换去。

And, uh, if you stick with stocks that can't possibly be wonderful to just put away in your safe deposit box for 40 years, but are underpriced, then you have to keep moving around all the time.

当它们的价格越来越接近你认为的真实价值时,你就得把它们卖掉,然后再去找别的。

As they get closer to what you think the real value is, you have to sell them and then find others.

所以,那是一种很主动的投资方式。

And so it's an active kind of investing.

那种投资方式,就是你找到少数几家特别优秀的公司,然后就安安稳稳坐着不动,因为你已经正确预测了未来。这个本事要是你真擅长,那当然是非常美妙的。

The investing where you find a few great companies and just sit on your ass because you've correctly predicted the future, that is what's very nice to be good at.
M1
M19:13

那部电影本来是 G-rated,虽然——

The movie was G-rated even though—.
M2
M29:20

就这些吗,Charlie?

Is that it, Charlie?
M1
M19:35

好,我们进入第二个部分。

Okay, we will move to area 2.