← 返回任务列表

2004年股东大会 · 巴菲特:投资专家的建议,真实目的通常只是为了销售产品

45 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:24
M1
M10:00

大家好,我是来自 Los Angeles 的 Bob Klein。

Hi, I'm Bob Klein from Los Angeles.

之前的问题里,你谈到过 asset allocation 和 capital allocation 这个话题,不过我想知道,你能不能从 risk management 的角度再展开讲讲?

You've touched on the issue of asset allocation, capital allocation in response to previous questions, but I wonder if you could elaborate from a risk management perspective.

Wall Street 和 financial planning firm 会为他们的 asset allocation model 收很多钱,比如说百分之五十配 stocks,百分之四十配 bonds,诸如此类。

Wall Street and financial planning firms charge a lot of money for their asset allocation models, say 50% stocks, 40% bonds, etc.

我知道你在构建投资组合和管理风险的时候,采取的是一种更 opportunistic 的方法,就像你刚才用 junk bond 的例子说明的那样。

I know you take a more opportunistic approach to building your portfolio and managing risk, as you mentioned by— as you illustrated by your junk bond example.

所以我就是想请你具体讲讲,你是怎么把 price 和 value 当成 risk management 和 asset allocation 的工具来用的。

And so I just want you to hammer out how you use price and value as a tool of risk management and asset allocation.

而不是先带着一个预设的想法,说每一类 asset 应该分配多少?

As opposed to coming at it with a preconceived idea of how much should be allocated to each asset class?
M2
M20:58

对,我们认为,降低风险最好的办法就是思考。

Yeah, we think the best way to minimize risk is to think.

那种做法就是,你知道,你说,我有百分之六十放在 stocks,百分之四十放在 bonds,然后再郑重其事地宣布,现在我们要调成六十五比三十五,这就是 Wall Street 上那些 strategists,或者随便他们怎么称呼自己的人,干的事。

The idea that you have, you know, you say, I've got 60% in stocks and 40% in bonds, and then have a big announcement, now we're moving it to 65-35, is some strategists or whatever they call them on Wall Street do.

我是说,那完全就是胡扯。

I mean, that has to be pure nonsense.

我的意思是,六十比四十也好,六十五比三十五也好,根本就没什么道理。

I mean, it, uh, 60/40 or 65/35, it just doesn't make any sense.

我的意思是,你应该做的是,把默认仓位始终放在 short-term instruments 上,然后每当你看到任何聪明、合理的机会,就去做。

I mean, what you ought to do is have your default position is always short-term instruments, and whenever you see anything intelligent to do, you should do it.

你不该老想着去匹配某个那样的目标。

And you shouldn't be trying to, to match up with some, uh, some goal like that.

我觉得这事挺有意思的。

I, I found it entertaining.

我昨天刚读到一篇文章,我想是讲 Google 那两个小伙子的,说他们马上各自要拿到几十亿美元,所以将会面临各种各样的问题。

I was just reading yesterday an article, I think it was, about the 2 fellows at Google and all of the problems they're going to have because they're each going to get a few billion dollars.

我是说,那篇文章看得我都想给他们寄张慰问卡了。

And I mean, it was— I mean, I wanted to send a sympathy card.

我差点都想走进一家 Hallmark 店了,因为那篇文章一路写下来。

I almost went down to a Hallmark store because this article went on.

说他们有这个可怕的问题、那个可怕的问题,还会需要 lawyers,还会需要 financial——他们谁都不需要。

They've got this terrible problem and that terrible problem, and they're going to need lawyers, and they're going to need financial— they don't need anybody.

那两个人比跑来找他们的那些人聪明多了。

Those guys are smarter than the people that are coming to them.
M3
M32:09

对。

Yeah.
M2
M22:09

而且他们根本没有什么大问题。

And they do not have a big problem.

他们完全有能力自己把这些事想明白。

And they're very capable of thinking it through themselves.

真正有问题的,是那些想把自己的服务卖给他们的人,那些人会想方设法说服他们,让他们觉得自己有问题。

The people that have the problem are the people who want to sell their services to them and are going to try to convince them that they have a problem.

所以你看到的很多关于 asset allocation 之类的说法,说到底都只是在做营销。

But so much of what you see when you talk about asset allocation or something like that, it's just merchandising.

这不过是一种办法,让你觉得,如果你自己不知道到底该是六十比四十还是六十五比三十五,那你就需要这些人。

It's a way to make you think that if you don't know how to determine whether it should be 60/40 or 65/35, that you need these people.
M3
M32:37

对。

Yeah.
M2
M22:37

但在投资这件事上,你根本不需要他们。

And you don't need them at all in investing.

我的意思是,大多数那些所谓的 professionals,会告诉你说,如果你不听他们的、不采用他们的方案、不报名他们的服务,你就会惹上大麻烦——他们真正擅长的是销售。

I mean, most of the professionals that, that, uh, tell you you're, you're going to get in great trouble unless you listen to them and, and adopt and, and sign up for their services, you know, they're good at selling.

不过,嗯,这让我想起我以前那个在 stockyards 工作的前妹夫说过的话。以前人们会把牛之类的牲口赶来,我就问他,你知道,你们到底是怎么让 farmer 雇你,去卖给 Swift、Armour 或者 Cudahy,而不是雇旁边那个人呢?

But, uh, um, it's what my brother-in-law, former brother-in-law that worked at the stockyards, used to say, was that people would bring in cattle or something and I'd say to them, you know, how do you get— how do you get the farmer to employ you to sell to Swift or Armour or Cudahy instead of the guy right next to you?

我是说,你知道,牛就是牛,Armour 买的时候反正都一个样。

I mean, you know, it's a cow is a cow, and Armour's going to buy it the same way.

结果他一脸嫌弃地看着我,说,Warren,关键不在于你怎么卖给他们,而在于你怎么跟他们讲。

And he gave me this disgusted look and he said, Warren, it's not how you sell them, it's how you tell them.

嗯,这种事——华尔街上多得很。

Well, that's— there's a lot of that in Wall Street.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M33:28

对,人一直都有这种强烈的欲望,想知道未来会发生什么。

Yeah, people have always had this craving to know the future.

你知道,以前国王会雇什么巫师啊、预言家啊,然后看羊的内脏之类的东西,想找出答案,好决定下一场战争该怎么打。

You know, the king used to hire the magician or the forecaster, and he'd look in sheep guts or something for an answer as to how to handle the next war.

所以一直以来,那些声称凭自己的专业知识就能知道未来的人,始终都有市场。现在这种事也还是很多。

And so there's always been a market for people who purported to know the future based on their expertise, and there's a lot of that still going on.

这跟当年国王雇那个看羊内脏的预言家一样荒唐。

It's just as crazy as when the king was hiring the, the forecaster who looked at the sheep guts.

而且,而且当人们在经济上有动力去卖某种灵丹妙药的时候,这东西就会被一卖再卖,一卖再卖。

And, and when people have an economic incentive to sell some nostrum, it can be sold over and over and over again.

真正有意思的数据是这样的:如果你把 mutual fund 行业整体跑输市场的情况算进去,比如说,一年大概差两个百分点——其实这么说还低估了。

The really interesting figures are when you combine the underperformance of the market, say, by the mutual fund industry, which is probably a couple of points per annum— that, that understates it.

然后,如果你再把那些 mutual fund 里的投资者也算进去,他们老是被一群想赚佣金的经纪人来回折腾,一会儿换这个 fund,一会儿换那个 fund。

Now, if you take all of the investors in the mutual funds who are constantly being whipsawed from one fund to another by a bunch of brokers who want commissions.

这样一来,本来就低于正常水平的业绩,还会因为 mutual fund 投资来回倒腾,再往下掉三到四个百分点。

Now you take a subnormal performance and it goes down another 3 or 4 percentage points due to the shuffling of the mutual fund investments.

所以普通大众里那个可怜的投资者,因为去找这些专家,最后拿到的是糟糕透顶的结果。而这些人呢,还在当童子军领队、主持社区募捐,在当地还都是很有名望的人。

So the poor guy in the general public is getting a terrible result from, from, from contacting the experts. And these guys are heading the scout troop and the community chest drive and are locally reputable people.

我觉得这很恶心。

I think it's disgusting.

靠成为某个能给购买产品的人真正创造价值的体系的一部分来谋生,要好得多。

It's much better to make a living by, by being part of a system that delivers value to the people who are, who are buying the product.

但没人会因为我这套理论,就不去开赌博赌场之类的东西。

But nobody, nobody refrains from creating gambling casinos or something on my theory.

只要这事能赚钱,那我们这个国家往往就会去做。

If it'll work to make money, why, we tend to do it in this country.