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如何判断一家公司的产品是否会有长久竞争力

61 段 · 2 位说话人 · 原片 7:11
M1
M10:00

我叫 Adam Bergman,来自 Virginia Beach, Virginia 的 Sterling Capital。

My name is Adam Bergman with Sterling Capital in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

我今天和我女儿 Michelle 一起来,她来自 Virginia Beach 的 Cape Henry Collegiate。

I'm here with my daughter Michelle from Cape Henry Collegiate in Virginia Beach.
M2
M20:11

你好,Warren。

Hi, Warren.
M1
M10:12

你好,Charlie。

Hi, Charlie.

我们想请教你们一个问题:你们是怎么去判断、去预测一家好公司里的某一个具体产品,和另一家公司相比,未来成功的程度会有多大?比如说,为什么你们会投资 American Express 和 Coca-Cola,而不是 Diners Club 或者 RC Cola?

Our question for you is how you go about attempting to forecast the degree of future success of one specific product in a good business versus another, such that you invest in American Express and Coca-Cola rather than Diners Club or RC Cola, for example?
M2
M20:41

谢谢。

Thanks.

嗯,American Express 的情况挺有意思的,因为 Diners Club 是先进去的。

Well, with American Express, it was an interesting situation because Diners Club got there first.

我觉得 American Express 从某种意义上来说,

I think American Express, in a certain sense,

我的意思是,他们这么做有很多原因,但他们之所以进入信用卡业务,是因为他们担心 traveler’s checks 以后会怎么样。

I mean, they did it for a lot of reasons, but they went into the credit card business because they were worried about what was going to happen to traveler's checks.

虽然 traveler’s checks 到现在仍然在相当程度上存在,不过有意思的是,当 American Express 开始和 Diners Club、还有我记得当时也存在的 Carte Blanche 竞争的时候,他们并没有像一般人会想的那样,定价比 Diners Club 更低,觉得自己是在挑战已经站稳脚跟的人,所以应该用更低价格切进去。相反,据我记得,他们的价格更高。

And although traveler's checks still exist in a significant way, the interesting thing when American Express went into competition with Diners Club and with Carte Blanche, as I remember, that also existed at the time, was that instead of charging less than Diners Club and going in figuring they were going against the established guy and they'd come in at a lower price, they went in at a higher price, as I remember.

而且那张卡上有 American Express 的 Centurion 标志。

And the American Express Centurion was on that card.

我自己有一张,是一九六四年拿到的,不过他们在那之前就已经在做这个业务了。

I've got one that I got in 1964, but they were in it before that.

随着时间过去,它的价值更高了。

It had more value in time.

我的意思是,它的形象包装更好。

I mean, it got better representation.

而且坦白说,如果你是个销售人员,跟别人一起出去吃饭或者谈事情,你掏出一张带着那个 Centurion 标志的 American Express 卡,看起来就像 J.P. Morgan 一样。

And frankly, if you were a salesperson out with somebody and you could pull out that American Express card with that Centurion, you looked like you were J.P. Morgan.

但如果你掏出 Diners Club,那上面一堆花哨的符号,你看起来就像那种这个月挪下个月、靠倒腾支票周转的人。

And if you pulled out the Diners Club, had a whole bunch of flashy symbols, you looked like a guy that was kiting his checks from one month to the next.

有个叫 Ralph Schneider 的人和 Al Bloomingdale 一起开发了 Diners Club,他们在抢先进入这件事上很聪明,但后来在怎么把这个产品做市场、做形象这方面,就没那么聪明了。

And a fellow named Ralph Schneider and Al Bloomingdale developed the Diners Club, and they were very smart about getting there first, but they weren't smart about how they merchandised it subsequently.

至于 RC Cola,你知道,在 Coke 之后出现过各种各样的 cola。

RC Cola, you know, there are all kinds of colas that came after Coke.

你想啊,回到一八八六年,在 Jacobs' Pharmacy 搞出这么一个大获成功的东西,很快肯定就会冒出一大堆模仿者,但 Coke 终究就是那个真正的经典。

I mean, you know, you go back to 1886 and come up with something at Jacobs' Pharmacy that's incredibly successful. Fairly soon, you're going to get lots of imitators, but Coke really is the real thing.

如果你拿 RC Cola 给我,说我半价卖给你,比 Coca-Cola 便宜一半。可从喝这个东西本身来说,我是说,这种产品一九零零年的时候,六点五盎司卖五美分。

And you offer me RC Cola and say, I'll give it to you at half the price of Coca-Cola. In terms of drinking it, I mean, this is a product that's 6.5 ounces, sold for a nickel in 1900.

到了现在,如果你周末买、一次买很多之类的,其实你也没多花多少。

And now if you buy it on the weekend and buy it in large quantities and everything, you're not paying that much more.

这份报纸在一九四二年才三美分。

This newspaper was 3 cents in 1942.

从通胀调整后的金额来看,你为这个产品付出的真实成本,对应得到的享受,已经大幅下降了。

The amount of enjoyment per real, in terms of the real of what you pay for this, has gone dramatically down in inflation-adjusted money.

所以它其实是个很划算的产品。

So it is a bargain product.

再比如说 See's Candy。

Now, you have to look at See's Candy.

如果你住在 California,你是个十几岁的男孩,去女朋友家,送她或者送她妈妈、她爸爸一盒糖,然后她亲了你一下,你知道,到那个时候,你对价格就不敏感了。

You know, if you live in California and you were a teenage boy and you went to your girlfriend's house and you gave the box of candy to her or her mother or father and she kissed you, you know, you lose price sensitivity at that point.
M1
M13:54

对,是这样。

That's—yeah.
M2
M23:57

所以我们真正想要的是那种会让人想亲你一下的产品,而不是想扇你一巴掌的产品。

So we really want products where people feel like kissing you, you know, rather than slapping you.

这件事很有意思。

It's an interesting thing.

我的意思是,某种程度上,我们其实是在押注 Apple 产品的整个 ecosystem,不过核心带动者是 iPhone。

I mean, you know, in effect, we're betting on the ecosystem of Apple products, but led by the iPhone.

我从这里面看到了一些特质,让我觉得它非常了不起,不过我也可能看错。

And I see characteristics in that that make me think that it's extraordinary, but I may be wrong.

到目前为止,我会说,我们在 American Express 和 Coca-Cola 这两家公司上的判断是对的。

And so far, we've been— I would say we've been right on American Express and Coca-Cola.

American Express 在一九六三年出过一起很大的 salad oil scandal。

American Express had this huge salad oil scandal in 1963.

事情就发生在六三年,十一月,差不多就是 Kennedy 遇刺前后那段时间。

It happened in '63, November, right around the time Kennedy was shot.

当时大家确实很担心,这家公司还能不能活下来。

And there was really worry about whether the company would survive.

但没有人停止使用他们的卡。

But nobody quit using the card.

也没有人停止使用他们的 traveler's checks,而且他们的 traveler's checks 还能收更高的溢价。

Nobody quit using the traveler's checks, and they charged a premium price for their traveler's checks.

所以,在消费品这类东西上,有些现象你是能看出来的,有时候这能让你对未来有相当不错的判断,当然,我们有时候也会犯错。

So there are things you can see around consumer products that sometimes can give you a pretty good insight into the future, and then sometimes we make mistakes.

Charlie?

Charlie?

我没什么可补充的,只不过要是当年 Coca-Cola 刚被发明出来的时候,有人给我们机会投进去,我们大概也会说不。

I got nothing to add except that if we'd been offered a chance to go into Coca-Cola right after it was invented, we probably would have said no.

我们会把它拒掉。

We'd have turned it down.

对,在我们看来,那东西可能还挺傻的。

Yeah, it would have looked kind of silly to us.

嗯,除非我们自己喝过。

Well, unless we drank it.

现在,Charlie,听我说。

Now, Charlie, listen.

不,他说得对。

No, he's right.

我的意思是,对那些我们手里没有大量证据的东西,我们是不会去预测的。

I mean, we don't foresee things that we haven't got a lot of evidence in on.

我是说,如果我们谈的是一种消费品,我们希望看到它在很多不同情况下到底会怎么表现。

I mean, we want to see a lot of— if we're talking about a consumer product, we want to see how a consumer product behaves under a lot of different circumstances.

然后我们还想用一种方法——其实,Phil Fisher 大概在一九六零年前后写过一本书,叫 Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits。

And then we want to use something— actually, there was a book by Phil Fisher written around 1960 called Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits.

那是投资领域最经典的书之一,里面讲到一种叫 scuttlebutt method 的投资方法,这和 Ben Graham 当年教我的那种以数字为主的方法,差得还挺远。

It's one of the great books on investing, and it talks about the scuttlebutt method of investing, which was quite a ways from what Ben Graham taught me in terms of figures.

但那真的是一本非常非常好的书,你只要出去跑一跑、做做实地了解,就能学到很多东西。

But it's a very, very good book, and you can learn a lot, you know, just by going out and using some shoe leather.

现在他们把这叫 channel checks 之类的,但总之就是,对有些产品你能形成感觉,对另一些你就不行,而且有时候你还是会看错。

Now they call them channel checks now or something like that, but it's— you can get a feel for some products, and then there are others you can't, and then sometimes you're wrong.

不过,这确实是个好方法。

But it is a good technique.

我会说,这是一种很重要的投资技巧。

It's an important investing technique, I would say that.

Ted 和 Todd 就经常这么做,他们也有一些人会帮他们一起做这件事。

And Ted and Todd do a lot of that, and they have some people that help them out on doing it too.

Charlie 在 Costco 这件事上就这么干过。

Charlie's done it with Costco.

我的意思是,他一直都在 Costco 身上发现新的优点,而且顺便说一句,他是对的。

I mean, he's— I mean, all the time he is finding new virtues in Costco, you know, and he's right, incidentally.

我的意思是,Costco 的吸引力非常非常大。

I mean, Costco has an enormous appeal.

对它的那批顾客来说尤其如此。

To its constituency.

你知道,他们总能让顾客感到惊喜、感到开心,而在商业里,没有什么比这个更厉害了。

You know, they surprise and delight their customers, and there is nothing like that in business.

如果你拥有一群满意又惊喜的顾客,那你基本上就已经赢很大了。

You have delighted customers, you're a long way home.

好,Becky。

Okay, Becky.