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为何伯克希尔的千亿现金不去买标普指数基金?

42 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 6:35
F1
F10:00

Warren,你一直都很提倡指数投资,也提倡不要去择时。

Warren, you are a big advocate of index investing and of not trying to time the market.

但是 Berkshire 持有这么大一笔现金和 T-bills,在我看来,你这好像是说一套做一套。

But by your having Berkshire hold such a large amount of cash and T-bills, it seems to me you don't practice what you preach.

我在想,一个不错的替代方案是,在你找到有吸引力的收购机会或者回购股票之前,把 Berkshire 大部分多余的现金投到一个分散很充分的指数基金里。

I'm thinking that a good alternative would be for you to invest most of Berkshire's excess cash in a well-diversified index fund until you find an attractive acquisition or buy back stock.

如果过去十五年你一直这么做,同时始终保留你想要的两百亿美元现金缓冲,我估计到二零一八年年底,公司一千一百二十亿美元的现金、现金等价物和短期 T-bills 余额,本来就会变成大约一千五百五十亿美元。

Had you done that over the past 15 years, all the time keeping the $20 billion cash cushion you want, I estimate that at the end of 2018, the company's $112 billion balance in cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments in T-bills would have instead been worth about $155 billion.

这两个数字之间的差额,就是机会成本,相当于 Berkshire 当前账面价值的百分之十二以上。

The difference between the 2 figures is an opportunity cost equal to more than 12% of Berkshire's current book value.

你怎么回应我这个说法?

What is your response to what I say?

还有——我忘了说,这个问题来自 Mike Elzar,他在佛罗里达州 Boca Raton 的 The Colony Group 工作。

And for— I forgot to say the question is from Mike Elzar, who is with The Colony Group located in Boca Raton, Florida.
M1
M11:10

这是个完全合理的问题,我也不会对这些数字提出异议。

That's a perfectly decent question, and I wouldn't quarrel with the numbers.

我会说,这确实是一种可选方案。比如说,我的继任者以后可能会想采用,因为综合来看,我宁可持有指数基金,也不太愿意拿着 Treasury bills。

And I would say that, that, that is an alternative, for example, that my successor may wish to employ, because on balance, I would rather own an index fund than carry Treasury bills.

不过我会说,如果我们在二零零七年或者零八年就实行这个政策,那我们在二零零八年末或者二零零九年采取行动的能力,可能就会处在一个不一样的位置。

I would say that if we'd instituted that policy in 2007 or '08, we might have been in a different position in terms of our ability to move late in 2008 or 2009.

所以,当资金规模是几千亿美元的时候,这种做法在执行上会有一些问题;如果是十亿美元、二十亿美元,或者类似那个量级,情况就不一样了。

So it has certain execution problems with hundreds of billions of dollars than it does if you were having a similar policy with a billion or $2 billion or something of the sort.

但这是个完全理性的观察,尤其是回头看这十年的牛市,这一点确实会特别明显。

But it's a perfectly rational observation, and certainly looking back on 10 years of a bull market, it really jumps out at you.

不过我会认为,如果操作的是比较小的资金规模,这么做会很有道理。

But I would argue that if you were working smaller numbers, it would make a lot of sense.

如果操作的是大资金,那 Berkshire 未来也很可能用这种方式来运作,这也许是有道理的。

And if you're working with large numbers, it might well make sense in the future at Berkshire to operate that way.

你知道,我们一周前刚投入了一百亿美元,而且在某些情况下——这些情况不是完全遥远,也不是说在任何一个星期、一个月或者一年里都很可能发生——但确实存在一些情况下,我们可以非常非常快地花掉一千亿美元。

You know, we committed $10 billion a week ago, and there are conditions under which— and they're not remote, they're not likely in any given week or month or year, but there are conditions under which we could spend $100 billion very, very quickly.

如果真那样做了,如果那些条件出现了,那这笔资本会被配置得非常好,比放在指数基金里要好得多。

And if we did, if those conditions existed, it would be capital very well deployed and much better than in an index fund.

所以我们一直是按照这样的思路在运作:我们会等到配置资本的机会出现。

So we've been— we're operating on the basis that we will get chances to deploy capital.

这些机会很可能会成批出现,而且会出现在别人不想配置资本的时候。

They will come in clumps in all likelihood, and they will come when other people don't want to allocate capital.

Charlie,你怎么看这个问题?

Charlie, what do you think about it?
M2
M23:18

嗯,我承认,在现金这件事上,我是比其他人稍微保守一点,不过——我觉得这没什么不好。

Well, I plead guilty to being a little more conservative with the cash than other people, and— but I think that's all right.

事后用上帝视角来看,我们本来也可以把所有钱投进很多证券里,而那些证券的表现会比 S&P 更好。

We could have put all the money into a lot of securities that would have done better than the S&P with 20/20 hindsight.

要记住,在那整段时间里,我们之所以一直留着那么多额外现金,是为了防备一旦出现机会之类的情况。

Remember, we had all that extra cash all that period if something had come along in the way of opportunities and so on.

我不觉得像我们这么大的公司,在现金上稍微更强一点是什么罪过。

I don't think it's a sin to be a little strong on cash when you're as big a company as we are.

我们没必要——我看着 Harvard 把他们最后一点现金都用上了,甚至连家长预缴的学费都算进去。

We don't have to— I watched Harvard use the last ounce of their cash, including all their prepaid tuition from the parents.

然后偏偏在最错误的时候一头扎进市场,还对 private equity 做了大量远期承诺,结果他们接下来的两三年简直痛苦不堪。

And plunge it into the market at exactly the wrong moment and make a lot of forward commitments to private equity, and they suffered like 2 or 3 years of absolute agony.

我们不想变成 Harvard 那样。

We don't want to be like Harvard.
M1
M14:10

再加上 timber,还有一大堆别的东西。

Plus timber and a whole bunch of things.

再加上 timber,而且,我是说——

Plus timber and, I mean—.
M2
M24:13

对,对,我们不会改的。

Yeah, yeah, we're not going to change.
M1
M14:22

我们确实喜欢手里有很多钱,这样就能够——行动非常快,而且规模非常大。

We do like having a lot of money to be able to— operate very fast and very big.

而且也许我们不会——我们知道,这种机会不会经常出现。

And maybe we won't— we know we won't get those opportunities frequently.

我觉得——当然了,你知道,未来二十年或者三十年里,大概会有两三次那种像天上下金子一样的时刻,你要做的只是走到外面去。

I don't think— certainly, you know, in the next 20 or 30 years, there'll be 2 or 3 times when it'll be raining gold and all you have to do is go outside.

但我们不知道这些时刻什么时候会发生,而且我们手里有很多钱要投出去。

But we don't know when they will happen, and we have a lot of money to commit.

我想说的是,如果你告诉我,我必须要么拿着短期 Treasury bills,要么就持有 index funds,让这笔钱就这样广泛地投在 America。

And I would say that if you told me I had to either carry short-term Treasury bills or have index funds and just let that money be invested in America generally.

那我会选 index funds,但我们还是抱有希望。

I would take the index funds, but we still have hopes.

还有一件关于 Berkshire 你们一定要非常明确地理解,就是我们经营这家公司时的方式,是我们认为符合那些几乎把自己全部净资产都放在 Berkshire 里的股东利益的。

And the one thing you should very definitely understand about Berkshire is that we run the business in a way that we think is consistent with serving shareholders who have virtually all of their net worth in Berkshire.

我自己刚好就是这种情况,但不管在什么情况下,我都会这样做。

I happen to be in that position myself, but I would do it that way under any circumstances.

有很多信任我们的人,如果按照标准的投资做法来看,他们持有的 Berkshire 在他们净资产里的占比,其实是高得不成比例的。

We have a lot of people who trust us who really have disproportionate amounts of Berkshire compared to their net worth if you were to follow standard investment procedures.

我们当然希望为每一个人赚钱,但我们也要非常、非常确定一件事:对于那些一开始是在接近企业内在价值的位置买入我们股票的人,我们不能让他们遭受永久性的亏损。

And we want to make money for everybody, but we want to make very, very sure that we don't lose money permanently for anybody that buys our stock somewhere around intrinsic business value to begin with.

我们就是很抗拒这样一种情况:我们有一百多万股东,甚至可能多达两百万,而其中很多人如果愿意跟着我们持有一段时间,最后却真的亏了钱。

We just have an aversion to having a million-plus shareholders, maybe as many as 2 million, and having a lot of them ever really lose money if they're willing to stay with us for a while.

而且我们知道,当整个世界都在动荡不安的时候,人们会怎么反应,他们会想要依附在某种东西上。

And we know how people behave when the world generally is upset, and they want to be with something.

我觉得,他们想依附的是那种像 Rock of Gibraltar 一样稳的东西,而我们确实有一种很强的倾向,要朝这个目标去做。

I think they want to be with something that they feel is like the Rock of Gibraltar, and we have a real disposition toward that goal.