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1999年股东大会 · 巴菲特谈会计造假的主要方式和根治方法

38 段 · 2 位说话人 · 原片 4:10
F1
F10:00

我是来自 Florida 的 Lola Wells。

I'm Lola Wells from Florida.

最近报纸上引用过你说的话,说有一些大型公司用了值得怀疑的做法,让它们的经营状况看起来更好。

You have been recently quoted in the newspapers as saying that some major corporations have used questionable practices to make their operations seem more favorable.

你愿意更具体一点,说说这些做法吗?

Would you be willing to be more specific about these practices?
M1
M10:24

除非我躺在临终床上,否则不会。

Not until I'm on my deathbed.
F1
F10:26

不。

No.
M1
M10:27

他们——不,我一贯的原则是,批评针对做法,表扬点名到人。

They— no, I have followed a policy of criticizing by practice and praising by name.

而且我们不会,你知道,我们确实——Charlie 和我都觉得,有些做法非常非常恶劣,而且这并不只限于某一家或少数几家大公司。

And we will not, you know, we do— Charlie and I both find certain practices very, very deplorable, and they aren't limited to a single or a few large corporations.

但是——如果我们拿出几个具体案例来说,可能反而没那么有效地推动改变。第一,这些案例大概跟其他几百家,至少也跟几十家公司,并没有那么大的不同;第二,那些批评这个世界的人,会立刻发现这个世界也会很快反过来严厉批评他们。

But it would— we would probably be less effective in arguing for change if we went to a few specific examples. A, they would not be that much different probably than hundreds of other, or at least dozens of other companies, and secondly, those who get critical of the world find the world gets very critical of them promptly.

我觉得,从某种意义上说,恨其罪,不恨其人,这样我们能做更多好事。

And I think we do more good by, in a sense, hating the sin and loving the sinner.

所以我希望你说的是这些做法的名字。

So I want you to name the practices.

哦,这些做法啊。

Oh, the practices.

不是那些作恶者。

Not the miscreants.
F1
F11:22

对,不是。

No.
M1
M11:23

嗯,这些做法就是一些——这些做法就是我们之前讲过的那些事。

Well, the practices are some— the practices are some of the things we've said.

它们涉及一些会计处理,目的是把盈利挪到后续期间,或者把利润做平滑,或者在未来的账目里把盈利做高。

They relate to accounting charges that are designed to throw into subsequent periods the earnings, smooth out, or to inflate earnings in future accounts.

这种事现在很多。

There's a lot of that being done.

以前也做过很多。

There's a lot of it that's been done.

SEC 在 Arthur Levitt 的领导下——我非常敬佩他在这件事上的努力——不过,他们之所以会采取行动,往往也得是有人狠狠敲他们一下才行。

The SEC, under Arthur Levitt, who I admire enormously for his efforts on this, is— it'll only be because somebody hits them over the head.

我的意思是——通过操弄费用和收入确认时点来玩花样,已经彻底变成一种时髦做法了。

I mean, it is— it has become totally fashionable to play games with the timing of expenses and revenues.

坦白说,在我看来,在 SEC 变得更强硬之前,审计师在这方面做得并不够。

And frankly, until the SEC got tougher, in my view, the auditors were not doing enough about it.

我觉得,像把薪酬费用藏起来、比如在 options 这类项目上不做费用确认,诸如此类——我认为,公司现在其实可以选择把 option 成本记入利润表,但你并没有看到有大量公司这么做。

I think that in terms of hiding compensation expense and not recording it in the case of options and all of that, I think companies now have the option of recording option costs in the income account, but you have not seen any great flood of people doing it.

而且实际上,在我看来,他们在附注里的披露方式也很有误导性,因为他们会尽量采用一些假设,去把对利润表的影响压到最低。

And actually, the way they show it in the footnotes is quite deceptive in my view, because they try to make assumptions that minimize what the income account impact would be.

但对股东来说,真正重要的是成本。

But the cost to the shareholder is what counts.

我的意思是,就我们而言,那就是薪酬成本,而这一点一直被淡化了。

I mean, that is the compensation cost as far as we're concerned, and that's been minimized.
F1
F12:47

对。

Yes.
M1
M12:49

还有,整套努力都是为了采用 pooling 而不是 purchase accounting,在这方面已经出现了很多——可以说有很多带有误导性的会计处理。

The whole effort to engage in pooling rather than purchase accounting has seen a lot of— there's been a lot of deceptive accounting in that respect.

在 purchase accounting 的调整上,也存在带有误导性的会计处理。

There's been deceptive accounting in purchase accounting adjustments.

所以,我们说的大概就是这类事情。

So those are the kind of things we're talking about.

Charlie?

Charlie?

对,就是那种 big bath accounting,还有之后把前面一次性计提过头的“大洗澡”再慢慢转回利润里,这造成了很多滥用。

Yeah, it's the big bath accounting and the subsequent release back into earnings of taking an overly large bath that create a lot of the abuse.

我们可以点名。

We could name names.

但我们不会。

We won't.

不过我的意思是,我们亲眼见过一些管理层,他们觉得自己这么做——他们说自己只是在做大家都在做的事。

But I mean, we have seen firsthand managements who think they are doing— they say they're doing what everybody else does.

事实是,他们现在确实是,因为大家都在这么做。

The truth is they are now, because everybody else is doing it.

这就需要某种外部力量,在这个案例里很可能是 SEC,本来应该是审计师,来整顿这种行为。

It takes some outside force, in this case probably the SEC, it should have been the auditors, to clean up the act.

因为一旦这种事变得很普遍,那个——那个说“我要光明正大、规规矩矩来做”的人,就会说,既然从法律上我可以不这么做、而去做别的,那我为什么要因为这样做而让我的股东吃亏呢?

Because once it becomes prevalent, the fellow who is— who says, I'm going to do it fair and square, and he says, why should I penalize my shareholders by doing something when legally I can get away with doing something else?
F1
F14:08

Charlie?

Charlie?
M1
M14:09

没什么可补充的了。

Nothing more.