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一年一度股东大会diss EBITDA的时刻

41 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 4:50
M1
M10:00

我叫 Andy Li Junlin,来自上海的 Loyal Valley Innovation Capital。

My name is Andy Li Junlin from Loyal Valley Innovation Capital from Shanghai.

这是我第六年从上海来到这里。

This is my 6th year from Shanghai to here.

我必须对你们两位说,Warren 和 Charlie,你们在全球范围内都受到极高的尊敬,也被无数人,甚至几十亿人深深喜爱。

I have to say to you two, Warren and Charlie, you are highly respected and deeply loved by millions and millions or even billions globally.

我今天有两个问题。

I have 2 questions today.

第一个问题,在你们写给股东的信里,你们说你们认为 EBITDA 不是衡量一家企业价值的好指标。

First question, in your letters to shareholders, you said you believe EBITDA is not a good parameter to value a business.

这是为什么呢?

Why is that?

你们能不能详细讲讲?

Can you elaborate on that?

第二个问题,你们两位都拥有非常成功、也非常幸福的人生。

Second question, you both have very successful and happy lives.

怀着极大的敬意,我这个问题是分别问你们二位的。

With great respect, my question is to each of you.

回过头来看,从个人角度说,你们人生里有没有遗憾?

In retrospect, from a personal standpoint, do you have regrets in life?

如果有一件事,你们这辈子会选择用不同的方式去做——不管是家庭、个人,还是商业上的?

If there is one thing you would have done differently in your life—family, personal, or business?

那会是什么?

What is it?

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.
M2
M21:22

嗯,我觉得你不该指望我们回答这种个人方面的问题。不过,呃,如果从商业上来说,我会说,我真希望我能更早认识 Charlie。

Yeah, I don't think you should expect us to answer that on personal matters, but, uh, if in business, I would say I wish I'd met Charlie earlier.

从我二十九岁、他三十五岁开始,我们就一直合作得很开心,但如果我们能早很多很多年就开始,那会更有意思。

We've had a lot of fun ever since I was 29 and he was 35, but it would have been even more fun if we'd started many, many years earlier.

我们本来是有机会的——我们在同一家杂货店工作过,只是不是在同一个时间。

We had a chance to—we worked in the same grocery store, but not at the same time.

至于 EBITDA,折旧本身就是一项费用,而且还是最糟糕的一类费用。

In respect to EBITDA, depreciation is an expense, and it's the worst kind of an expense.

你知道,我们很喜欢谈 float,所谓 float,就是我们先拿到钱,费用以后再发生。

You know, we love to talk about float, and float is where we get the money first and we have the expense later.

而折旧呢,是你先把钱花出去,你知道,然后过后才把这笔费用记下来。

Depreciation is where you spend the money first, you know, and then record the expense later.

它其实就是反过来的 float,这可不是什么好事。

And it's reverse float, and it's not a good thing.

如果把这个东西放进估值倍数里,那还不如去买这样一家企业:在其他条件都一样的情况下,它几乎不用投入固定资产,所以基本没有折旧,也能赚到 X;而不是去买另一家公司,它为了赚到同样的 X,却要承担大量折旧。

And to have that enter into a multiple, it's much better to buy a business that, everything else being equal, has no depreciation because it has essentially no investment in fixed assets and makes X, than it is to buy a company where there's a lot of depreciation in getting to X.

实际上,也许我明年还会再多写一点这个话题,因为这真是一种大规模的集体幻觉。

And actually, I may write a little bit more on that next year just because it's such a mass delusion.

当然了,Wall Street 非常有动力去强调一个叫 EBITDA 的东西,因为它会带来更高的举债能力、更高的估值,以及诸如此类的好处。

And of course, it's in the interest of Wall Street enormously to focus on something called EBITDA because it results in higher borrowing power, higher valuations, and all of that sort of thing.

所以过去二十年里,它变得非常流行,但这是一个很有误导性的统计指标,而且可能会被用在非常有害的地方。

So it's become very popular in the last 20 years, but it's a very misleading statistic and can be used in very pernicious ways.

Charlie,这两个话题你想回应哪一个吗?

Charlie, on either one of those subjects?
M3
M33:03

我觉得你还低估了这个东西有多可怕,也低估了那些把这个词带进企业估值体系里的人的可鄙程度。

I think you've understated the horrors of the subject and the disgusting nature of the people that brought that term into the valuation of business.

这就像一个做房地产租赁经纪的人,明明有一套一千平方英尺的办公室要出租,他却说这里面有两千平方英尺。

It would be like a leasing broker of real estate who says—you had a 1,000-square-foot suite to be leased, and he says it's got 2,000 feet in it.

这不是光明正大的行为。

That's not honorable behavior.

而这个词就是这样进入日常普遍使用中的。

And that's the way that term got into common usage.

任何头脑正常的人都不会认为折旧不是费用。

Nobody in his right mind would think that depreciation is not an expense.
M2
M23:41

对,不过这确实非常符合 Wall Street 的利益。

Yeah, but it's very much in the interest of Wall Street.
M3
M33:45

对,所以啊,所以他们才这么干。

Yes, that's why, that's why they did it.

对,这样一来就会让那个 multiple 看起来更低。

Yeah, it made the multiple seem lower.
M2
M23:50

而且真正让人吃惊的是,它居然就这么被大家接受了。

And what's amazing is the way it's accepted, actually.

不过总之,这恰恰说明了人们是怎么使用语言的,你知道,然后怎么包装那些对自己有利的概念,再把它卖出去。

But anyway, it, it just illustrates that how people use language, you know, and, and sell concepts that work to their own use.

还有,2 and 20 也是同样一类东西。

And, and 2 and 20 has the same sort of thing.

我的意思是,付完 2 and 20 之后,真正能跑赢的人的数量、能跑赢的那部分资金规模,和已经付出去的那些费用比起来,我可以向你保证,足以成为对这种特定安排的一份非常有力的控诉。

I mean, the number of, the number of people, the amount of money that's overperformed after paying 2 and 20 compared to the expenses that have been incurred, I will assure you, makes for a terrible indictment of that particular arrangement.

但只要还能卖得出去,就还是会有人卖。

But as long as it can get sold, it will get sold.
M3
M34:32

而现在,他们连在商学院里都用这个说法了。

And now they use it in the business schools.

这就真是双倍的恐怖了。

Now that is, that is horror squared.

我的意思是,一帮 thieves 开始用一个词,本来就已经够糟了;可当它普及到连商学院都照着学的时候,那可不是什么——那绝对不是什么好结果。

I mean, I mean, it's bad enough that a bunch of thieves start using a term, but when it gets so common that the business schools copy it, that is not a— that's not a good result.