Reinventing School for the AI Era | Joe Liemandt, Gagan Biyani & Erik Torenberg — 文稿

M10:00

你愿意重新设计学校的日程，让孩子们比喜欢假期还喜欢上学吗？

Are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?

借助认知科学和学习科学，再加上大语言模型的出现，你可以构建一个学习引擎，让孩子们的学习速度快十倍。

With cognitive science and learning science, plus the advent of LLMs, you can build a learning engine that teaches kids 10 times faster.

M20:12

我觉得你带来的一个转变是这件事变得更可信了。

The shift that I think you've been able to make is the believability of it.

很快人们就会问，我们为什么还要用其他方式呢？

Pretty soon people are gonna ask, why would we ever do it any other way?

M10:20

我希望下一代能对AI持有乐观的态度，并且说，我们要去建设一个美好的未来。

I want this next generation to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, we're gonna build an awesome future.

这就是我们作为教育工作者的职责，去建设那个世界。

That's what our job as educators are, is to go build that world.

M20:32

如果一位家长说，我要送我的孩子去常春藤盟校，你会怎么回应？

What would you say to the parent who's saying, I'm sending my kid to Ivy League school.

我知道它不完美，但这是一个新机构。

I know it's not perfect, but this is a new institution.

我为什么要冒险？

Why should I take a risk?

M10:42

嗯。

So.

M30:43

如果AI能帮助学生们以快得多的速度学完传统课程，那么他们剩下的教育时间应该用来做什么？

If AI can help students learn the traditional curriculum dramatically faster, what should they do with the rest of their education?

在这一集里，我和Alpha School的创始人Joe Liemandt以及Horowitz and Andreessen Academy的联合创始人Gagan Biyani坐下来聊了聊，在AI时代学校应该是什么样子。

In this episode, I sit down with Alpha School founder Joe Liemandt and Horowitz and Andreessen Academy co-founder Gagan Biyani to talk about what school should look like in the AI era.

Joe多年来一直围绕一个截然不同的模式来构建Alpha。

Joe has spent years building Alpha around a radically different model.

学生们每天花大约两个小时在核心学科上，然后用其余的时间通过真实项目来培养团队合作、创业精神、沟通能力和领导力等技能。

Students spend roughly 2 hours a day on core academics, then use the rest of their time developing skills like teamwork, entrepreneurship, communication, and leadership through real-world projects.

我们讨论了Alpha在K-12教育中学到了什么，以及这些经验在应用到大学年龄段的学生时，在AJA会如何变化。

We talk about what Alpha has learned from K through 12 education and how those lessons change when applied to college-age students at AJA.

这包括为什么动力如此重要，为什么学生应该和处于前沿的人一起做事，以及为什么学习可以越来越多地服务于解决真实问题，而不仅仅是通过考试。

That includes why motivation matters so much, why students should be building alongside people operating at the frontier, and why learning can increasingly happen in service of solving a real-world problem rather than simply passing a test.

最后，我们提出了一种为年轻人应对AI做准备的不同方式——不是试图预测哪些职业会幸存，而是给他们提供能动性、人际关系和工具，去帮助建设接下来会发生的一切。

And ultimately, we make the case for a different way of preparing young people for AI, not by trying to predict which careers will survive, but by giving them the agency, relationships, and tools to help build what comes next.

Joe，欢迎来到播客。

Joe, welcome to the podcast.

M11:51

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

M31:52

今年我们有幸一起待了一段时间，参观了学校，你在Alpha所取得的成就太不可思议了，这给了我们在HA很多启发。

So we've had the luxury of spending some time together this year and touring the schools, and what you've built with Alpha is just incredible, and it's inspired us at HA.

我们很感激你的参与。

We're grateful to have your involvement.

对于不熟悉的人来说，你能不能简要描述一下你认为的核心创新，或者你用Alpha给这个领域带来了什么？

And for people who are unfamiliar, why don't you just briefly describe what you think of as this, the central innovations or what you've really brought to the space with Alpha?

M12:09

好的。

Sure.

我们正在重新定义K-12学校的上学日，对吧？

So we're reinventing how K-12 school is, the school day, right?

也就是孩子们在教室或学校建筑里度过的六七个小时候是什么样的。

How kids spend their 6 or 7 hours that they're in class or in a school building.

那是什么感觉？

What is that like?

首先你要理解并认同的一点是，教学设计和教学方式一百年来都没有变过，对吧？

And sort of the first part that you have to understand and buy into is that instructional design and delivery hasn't changed for 100 years, right?

把一个老师放在教室前面，那到底什么才是正确的方法？

You throw a teacher in front of the classroom and what's the right way to do this?

现在，如果你看看过去几十年，随着认知科学和学习科学的发展，再加上大语言模型的出现，你可以构建一个学习引擎，让孩子们的学习速度快十倍，对不对？

And now, If you look over the last couple decades with cognitive science and learning science, plus the advent of LLMs, you can build a learning engine that teaches kids 10 times faster, right?

所以，一旦你拥有了这种能力——孩子们可以比过去一百年老师在前面讲课的模式快十倍地学习，问题就变成了：你要拿它来做什么？

And so as soon as you have that ability where kids can learn 10 times faster than they could the last 100 years with a teacher in front of a classroom model, the question is, what do you do with it?

这就是我们在Alpha做的事情，如何重新设计学校的日常？

And so that's what we're doing at Alpha, which is how do you reinvent the school day?

在我们的模式里，我们对孩子们做出三项承诺，第一项就是他们热爱学校。

And so in our model, we make 3 commitments to the kids, which the first is they love school.

我上周刚拿到调查问卷的结果。

And I just got the surveys back last week.

我们百分之九十多的孩子说：我爱学校。

90-some percent of our kids say, I love school.

学校里百分之五十的孩子说，比起去度假，我更愿意去上学。

50% of the kids at the school said, I would rather go to school than go on vacation.

其实我有一个校区，百分之六十五的孩子都这样，宁愿去上学也不愿去度假。

I actually have one campus where it's at 65% of the kids are like, I'd rather go to school than vacation.

所以，如果你要在学校待十二年，那就得建一所孩子们热爱的学校。

And so build a school where kids love it if you're going to be there for 12 years.

但第二部分，借助这套引擎，我们做到的是孩子们在两小时内学到的内容多一倍。

But then the second part with this engine, what we do is the kids learn twice as much in 2 hours.

比起在课堂上坐六个小时再加做作业，每天两小时学到的反而更多。

A day as sitting in class for 6 and doing homework.

所以每天学术学习只花两小时，但他们学得更多。如果你持续积累，学到的比别人学校多一倍，那么不管起点如何，假以时日你就会进入前百分之一的行列。

And so it's 2 hours a day of the academics and they learn more, which if you're compounding and learning twice as much as you would at your other school, you're going to get to the top 1% sort of no matter where you start given time.

所以孩子们表现出色。

And so the kids crush it.

在标准化考试中，我们是学业表现最好的学校。

On standardized tests, we're the best academic performing school.

那么第二个和第三个承诺就是，一天剩下的时间你做什么？

And then the second and the sort of the third commitment is, well, what would you do the rest of the day?

我觉得这正是我们讨论的核心问题。

And I think that's a whole thing of what we're talking about.

M24:00

现在。

Now.

M14:01

我相信现在每一所学校，无论K-12还是大学，都必须回答：如果传统方式和传统课程现在速度快十倍，那剩下的时间你用来做什么？

I believe now every school, and it doesn't matter, K-12, university, has to say if the traditional way and the traditional curriculum is now 10 times faster, what do you do with the rest of the day?

M34:10

是的。

Yeah.

M14:11

作为校长，我可以明确告诉你，如果两小时后就让孩子回家，家长肯定会讨厌，对吧？

And as a principal, I can definitely tell you the one thing parents would hate is if I sent the kids home after 2 hours, right?

你要整天照看他们，每天六七个小时，对吧？

You got 'em all day, 6, 7 hours a day, right?

而且孩子们愿意待在那里，他们喜欢学校。

And the kids want to be there and they love it.

所以我们做的事情是，我们认为哪些生活技能对在未来的世界中茁壮成长至关重要？

So what we do is it's what are all the life skills that we consider critical to thriving in the world that's coming?

世界在变化。

The world's changing.

我们该怎么办？

What do we do?

所以我们有五大类生活技能：领导力和团队合作、创业精神和金融素养、社交能力、建立关系、讲故事、公开演讲、坚韧、勤奋。

And so we have 5 categories of life skills, leadership and teamwork, entrepreneurship and financial literacy, socialization, relationship building, storytelling, public speaking, grit, hard work.

然后你会和所有朋友一起分组做项目，由一位成年人来带领。

And so then you're doing projects in a group with all your friends, with an adult who's running them.

那就是你下午和一天剩余时间的度过方式。

And that's how you spend your afternoon the rest of the day.

我们刚刚在奥斯汀。

We were just in Austin.

去年我们又增加了12个校区。

Then we added 12 campuses last year.

我们现在有50个了。

We're up to 50.

需求高得惊人，人们就是想要这种新东西。

Demand's insane that People want this new thing.

我们算是第一个这么做的，但每个人迟早都得面对这个。

We're sort of first, but everybody's going to have to look at this.

现在没人会信，哦，就两小时的工作量，我们还得扩大规模、拿出更多证据。

Today, no one believes, oh, it was a 2-hour work and we have to get scale and more proof points.

但一旦你意识到，哇，孩子们两个小时就能学完所有需要的东西，那每个家庭、每个校长、每个人，全世界的教育部长都会问：我们怎么重新设计接下来一百年的学校生活？

But once you realize, wow, kids could learn everything they needed to in 2 hours, every family, every head of school, everybody, every education minister around the world's going to say, how do we rebuild the school day for the next 100 years?

因为我们不需要像过去一百年那样做了。

Because we don't need to do it like we did the last 100.

M25:25

对，我记得六年前去参观过 Alpha。

Yeah, I remember visiting Alpha 6 years ago.

那时候你还没全职做这个，但我立刻就明白了，因为我在学习科学和教育领域已经待了十五到二十年。

This is before you were full-time on it, and I immediately got it because I've been in learning science and sort of education for 15 to 20 years.

但我得说，我觉得你做到的最大转变是让它变得可信了。

But I will say that the shift that I think you've been able to make is the believability of it.

而且我认为你干得很漂亮，你找到了办法来展示这不仅是可行的，而且很快人们就会问：我们为什么还要用别的方式？

And I think you've done a great job of figuring out how to show that not only does this work, but pretty soon people are going to ask, why would we ever do it any other way?

从商业角度来说，我觉得这就是你过去五年真正厉害的地方。

And that's really the brilliance of, from a business standpoint, what you've accomplished over the last 5 years, I think.

M15:59

对，我四年前当上校长的，我的背景是产品，对吧？

Yeah, I became principal 4 years ago and my background's product, right?

还有创业。

And entrepreneurship.

而这东西就是需要产品化的包装。

And this just needed sort of product packaging.

你怎么把它做成一个产品，让它既容易理解又能规模化，对吧？

How do you productize this into something that is understandable and scalable, right?

另一部分是，学校真的很难规模化。

That's the other part is it's really hard to scale schools.

你怎么在保持质量的前提下扩张？

How do you scale them to quality?

所以我头三年就在琢磨这个。

And so that's, for my first 3 years, it was how to do that.

实际上，引入AI的一个大好处就是它能帮你高质量地规模化。

And that's actually one of the big benefits of bringing AI is it helps you scale at high quality.

我们的口号是：越做越大，越做越好。

Our phrase is, we get better as we get bigger.

你看过去这四年，我们的考试成绩、客户满意度、学生幸福感、工作坊质量，所有这些每年都在变好，因为系统越大它越强。

And if you look at anything over the last 4 years, our test scores, customer sat, student happiness, the quality of the workshops, all of those get better every year because the system gets better as it gets bigger.

M36:41

嗯。

Yeah.

我们有不少队友、同事、朋友把孩子送过去，你看到孩子们真的很喜欢。

We have a number of teammates, colleagues, friends who send their kids off and you see the kids love it.

我记得我自己的K-12经历，我特别讨厌。

And I remember hating my K-12 experience.

是那个两小时的安排起的作用吗？

Is it this 2-hour sort of arrangement?

你觉得最主要的原因是什么，让孩子们这么喜欢，而其他学校应该借鉴？

What is it that you find is most contributing to kids loving it that other schools should be adopting?

同样地，我们私下聊过，学习动机被低估了，或者说它在拉开孩子们成绩差距方面可能是最重要的因素之一。

And similarly, we're talking off camera about how motivation is underrated or maybe one of the biggest elements in terms of what is separating outcomes for kids.

你们又是怎么解决这个问题的？

How are you tackling that as well?

M17:06

对，我觉得最大的问题是，教育科技历史上在学校里一直没做好，没产生大家期待的影响。

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is edtech historically hasn't done well in schools, hasn't had the impact that people wanted.

如果你看这个学习引擎，说，哦，这不就是教育科技嘛，我直接把它放进正常的学校日程里，那它肯定失败。

And if you look at this learning engine and say, oh, this is like edtech and I'm just going to put it into a normal school day, it'll fail.

它会跟其他所有东西一样。

It'll be just like everything else.

我跟人聊起Alpha，他们听说这个学习引擎后，会问一个问题，而这是一切的核心：你愿不愿意重新设计学校生活，让孩子们爱它胜过假期？

And when I talk to somebody who hears about Alpha and they hear all this learning engine, one question, and this is the core of everything, which is, are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?

而且，如果你有一位校长这么说，那你就万事俱备了。

And if you have a head of school who says that, then you're all set.

说实话，这种动力就藏在那句话里——如果你每天早上醒来都在想，我怎样才能让孩子们爱上这个？

And that motivation falls under that, honestly, which is if you are waking up and saying, how am I going to make kids love this?

这才是我们能够开展一切的核心。

That is the core of what allows us to do everything else.

人们听到这个的时候会担心，哎呀，那不就是迪士尼乐园吗，孩子们到处乱跑，根本不学习，或者一点严谨性都没有。

And people are worried when they hear that of, oh, it's Disneyland and they're just running around and they're not learning, or it's not rigorous.

M37:55

要么就是电子游戏或者看电视。

Video games or TV.

M17:56

对。

Yeah.

还有诸如此类的东西。

And all these things.

而实际情况恰恰相反——我们经常提到的一个观点是，孩子幸福的关键在于高标准。

And it's literally just the opposite, which is one of the things we talk about is the key to your child's happiness is high standards.

孩子们其实想去挑战困难的事情，对吧？

Kids want to go do hard things, right?

他们喜欢做困难的事情，而且喜欢和朋友们一起做。

They love to do hard things and they love to do hard things with their friends.

如果只是一整天打电子游戏，他们在家就能干那个。

If it was just playing video games all day, they can go do that at home.

但他们会坐在那里说，我想做这个，而不是去度假，那是因为他们正在和喜欢的朋友一起做有挑战性的事情。

But to sit there and say, I want to do this instead of vacation, it's because they're doing challenging things with their friends that they love.

M38:17

没错。

Yeah.

M18:18

这并不难理解。

It's not hard.

举个例子，一个简单的例子就是团队合作，对吧？

Like an example, like an easy example is, so like teamwork, right?

还有把同学当作团队来互相鼓励，你知道，在传统学校里，他们不教这个。

And uplifting your classmates as a team, you know, in traditional school, They don't teach this.

课外运动嘛，在美国，肯定能学到团队合作和领导力。

After-school sports, absolutely in America, teamwork, leadership.

但在学校里就不教。

But in schools they don't.

实际上，学校里的多数团队项目，那些小组作业都特别糟糕。

Actually, most team projects in school, group projects are terrible.

一个人全干了，其他人就坐那儿闲着，对吧？

One person does it, everybody else just sits around, right?

你肯定记得那种情况。

You always remember those.

那些经历简直糟透了，对吧？

They were terrible, right?

所以，你学到的反而是团队合作的反面。

And so you learn the opposite of teamwork.

你学到的是一种反模式。

And you learn like the anti-pattern.

而在我们学校，有一个很好的例子：Wharton有一个MBA挑战赛，里面有个模拟项目，是攀登珠穆朗玛峰。

And in our school, actually a good indication of that is the Wharton has an MBA challenge where they have a simulation that you take and it's go up Mount Everest.

有50%的MBA学生在团队合作上失败了，因为他们在整个求学过程中几乎从没学过怎么团队合作。

50% Of MBAs fail the teamwork because they never were taught teamwork sort of their whole, you know, stack through school.

我们让每个三年级的学生戴上麦克风，然后把他们扔进一个密室逃脱，对吧？

We take every 3rd grader and we mic 'em up and we throw 'em into an escape room, right?

他们全都成功走出了密室。

And they're all getting through the escape room.

哇。

Wow.

最后，我们用AI分析对话记录。

And at the end of it, we have AI analyze the transcript.

你的语言里有多少比例是这样的？

What percent of your language, right?

你是有团队精神吗？

Were you team-oriented?

你是在帮助别人还是——答案我可以告诉你。

Were you helping or were you— and the answer, I can, I can give you the answer.

不到20%的语言是积极向上的。

Less than 20% of the language is uplifting.

他们都在争斗、推搡，坚持自己的主张，对吧？

They're fighting and pushing and my idea, right?

各种各样的情况。

All these different things.

所以我们为此设计了一个8周的工作坊，他们全程参与，并且反复练习团队合作，直到毕业，对吧？

And so we have an 8-week workshop for this and they go through it and they keep going back to the teamwork and to graduate, right?

要通过这门课，他们必须达到85%的团队行为标准。

To pass the class, they have to get up to 85% of team behavior.

我们还向他们展示，他们在密室逃脱中完成的速度提高了3倍。

And we also show 'em that they finish the escape room 3 times faster.

M39:42

没错。

Yeah.

M19:42

当你处于团队环境中时。

When you're doing team environment.

这真是一种特别有趣的方式。

And that's just a great fun way.

孩子们都很喜欢。

Kids love it.

对。

Yeah.

这是一种生活技能，每个家长都会说，啊，这就是我希望孩子学到的东西。

It's a life skill that every parent's like, oh, that's the stuff I want my kids to learn.

M39:50

是的。

Yeah.

M19:51

而且因为他们不需要整天坐在教室里，所以他们能做到这一点。

And because they don't have to sit in class all day, they can do that.

然后是四年级和五年级，对吧？

And then 4th and 5th grade, right?

我们生活技能课程的要求和核心课程一样严格——要通过物理或数学考试，你同样需要通过密室逃脱测试。

Our life skills curriculum is as rigorous as our core passing a physics test or a math test is you have to pass the escape room test.

在四年级和五年级，我们实际上让他们通过Wharton MBA挑战，而50%的MBA学生都无法通过。

In 4th and 5th grade, we actually make 'em pass the Wharton MBA challenge that 50% of the MBAs can't.

但四年级和五年级的孩子却能通过。

And you take a 4th and 5th grader and they pass it.

那种自豪、兴奋和想要去做的感觉又回来了，你可以更早地吸引他们并传授这些技能。

That back to being proud and excited and wanting to do it, you can engage 'em and teach these skills much younger.

我相信，当我们审视这个世界时，我们以前没有能力在更小的年龄就教会孩子们所有这些。

And I believe as we look at the world, you know, we haven't had the capability to teach kids, you know, all this at a much younger age.

嗯，因为你整天坐在教室里，但现在我们有了这个能力，当然，我们必须去做。

Um, 'cause you're sitting in class all day, but now that we can, of course, you know, we must.

M310:31

对。

Yeah.

所以，他们之所以享受其中，是因为他们能感受到自己学得更快、成长更快、建立更深的关系，总的来说，嗯，这是你在度假时得不到的。

So the reason they're enjoying is because they can feel themselves learning faster, growing faster, building deeper relationships and just overall, uh, you know, that's something you can't get on vacation.

M110:42

没错。

Yeah.

嗯，这就像那个——你会选择那个密室逃脱吗？

Well, and it's, well, it's like that, would you, that escape room?

这，这对家长来说是一个很高的门槛。

It's, it's a high bar for your parents.

第二点，就像你说的，孩子们为什么不喜欢学校？

The second is to your point of what else Kids don't like school.

我们来聊聊学术和生存技能的区别。

Let's talk academics versus life skills.

大概有两种不同——在学术方面，孩子们不喜欢做他们失败的事情。

There's sort of 2 different— on the academic side, kids don't like to do things they fail at.

学术上确实如此。

That's true on academics.

任何事情都是这样。

That's true on anything.

这就是为什么在美国我们让孩子在体育上留级，对吧？

That's why in America we hold kids back on sports, right?

因为你想要给他们——他们更大一点，对吧？

Because you want to give them— they're bigger, right?

然后突然之间他们打得更好，他们赢了，然后得到表扬，是的。

Then all of a sudden they're playing better and they win and then they get the accolades and— Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

然后你就让他们走上那条路。

And you get them on that path.

然后在美国的学术方面，因为我们是基于时间的系统，对吧？

And then academics in America, because we're a time-based system, right?

一旦你落后了，对吧，那就变成了，在剩下的时间里就是折磨，对吧？

Once you fall behind, right, then it's just, now it's torture the rest of the time, right?

无论你在哪里落后，对吧？

Wherever you fall behind, right?

而且就是，你的，在我们的系统里，因为我们的学习引擎会给你个性化的课程，对吧？

And it's just, it's your, and in our system, because our learning engine will give you a personalized lesson, right?

不管你的年级是多少。

It doesn't matter what your age grade is.

你可以在八年级。

You can be in 8th grade.

如果你需要五年级的课程，因为不管怎样，在你来Alpha之前你错过了，它就会给你五年级的课程，对吧？

And if you need a 5th grade lesson, because whatever, before you came to Alpha, you missed it, it's going to give you the 5th grade lesson, right?

而你能做得到，你能掌握它。你能通过它，然后继续前进。

And you're going to be able to do it and you're going to be able to get it. You're going to be able to pass it and then move forward.

所以我们为孩子们在学术上设计胜利，如果你要说出引擎对孩子们的核心价值，你基本上希望孩子们处于80%到85%的正确率区间，对吧？

And so we engineer wins for the kids in the academics that if you had to say the core value of what the engine does is for the kids, you basically want kids in this 80 to 85% correct zone, right?

就是，当你接触某件事时，百分之多少的时间是太简单或太难？

Just what percent of the time, if you're engaging with something, is it too easy or too hard?

如果是100%正确，那就太简单了。

If it's 100% correct, it's too easy.

你甚至什么都没学到。

You're not even learning anything.

你只是在重复你已经知道的东西。

You're just regurgitating what you know.

任何视频游戏开发者都会告诉你，如果你掉到三分之二以下，并且超过三分之二的时间都在失败，你就会失去兴趣。

And any video game developer will tell you, if you drop below 2/3 and you're failing more than 2/3 of the time, you're going to disengage.

所以学习引擎能做到而面对30个学生的老师做不到的一件事，就是确保孩子得到源源不断的课程和问题，准确率在80%到85%。

So one of the things that a learning engine can do that a teacher in front of a classroom with 30 people can't do is make sure the kid gets an unending stream of lessons and questions that's 80 to 85% accurate.

对吧？

Right?

而我们就能做到。

And we can just do it.

如果太难了，对吧，我们可以给他们补习课程来赶上，对吧？

And if it gets too hard, right, we can give them scaffolding lessons to catch up, right?

太简单的话，就让他们更快地学习材料。

Too easy, you progress them faster through the material.

如果你让孩子们保持参与感，因为你给他们的是他们能完成的任务，对吧，那么他们就会喜欢。

And if you keep kids engaged because you're giving them work they can do, right, then they like that.

而且当孩子们真的做得好的时候，你对他们有高标准，他们就会非常兴奋，他们看到自己在学业上突飞猛进，而不是挣扎其中。

And when kids actually do well, right, and you hold them to high standards, right, they get very excited, you know, and just, they see themselves crushing their academics instead of struggling with it.

他们做得好时，对吧。

And when they're doing well, right.

他们喜欢这样。

They love that.

M313:09

Gagan，我很好奇你怎么看这场讨论，以及Alpha学校在K-12阶段的做法，这如何启发我们在AHA做的事情。

Gagan, I'm curious how you think about this conversation and what Alpha's doing in K-12 and how that informs what we're doing with AHA.

M213:17

深受启发。

Incredibly inspired.

我觉得自从我第一次参观Alpha School以来就一直受它启发，它验证了我们在Andreessen Horowitz Academy的一个论点：如果你用现代工具为现代时代重新设计体系，你就能在成果上得到你想要的一切。

I think that I've been inspired by Alpha School since I first visited, and it proves, I think, the thesis that we have at the Andreessen Horowitz Academy, that if you redesign the system for the modern era with modern tools, that you can have everything that you want in terms of outcomes.

你可以获得更大的社交网络。

You can have more network.

很多人说上学是为了建立社交网络。

A lot of people say you go to school for network.

我们会让你的社交网络提升10倍。

We're gonna take your network and make it 10x better.

每个人都说上学是为了成为更好的人。

Everyone says you're gonna go to school to become a better person.

Andreessen Horowitz Academy绝对希望你成为更好的人。

Like, Andreessen Horowitz Academy absolutely wants you to become a better person.

我们会设计这个体系，让你更有可能成为一个正和博弈的人。

We're gonna engineer the system so that you're more likely to become a positive-sum human.

你想要有高度的主动性，你想做困难的事。

You wanna have high agency and you wanna do hard things.

Alpha学校给了我很多灵感，关于如何确保学生获得这些。

Like, Alpha has given me a lot of inspiration on how to ensure that students get that.

我觉得一个区别是，在每个年龄段，你必须做非常不同的事情。

I think the one difference is that at every age range, you have to do something very different.

所以如果你听Joe讲，K-8、高中，非常不同。

So if you actually listen to Joe talk, K-8, high school, very different.

从高中到大学阶段，也非常不同。

When you go from high school to college era, very different.

所以突然间你必须做出正确的调整。

And so now all of a sudden you have to make the right changes.

你不能只是照搬一切。

You can't just copy everything over.

也就是说，最终如果你有以学生为中心的理念，如果你告诉全国任何一所主要大学的领导，他们的首要任务且唯一任务就是确保学生成功，我相信美国会有很多优秀的学校。

That is, and so ultimately, if you have a student-centric mindset, you know, if you just told the leaders of any major university in the country that their number one job and no other job was to make sure that the students were like succeeding, I'm sure that there would be many great schools in the United States.

不幸的是，好学校不多，因为大多数大学领导需要把90%的时间花在处理成人相关的事情上，而不是花在学生身上。

Unfortunately, there aren't many because most university leaders are required to spend 90% of their time focused on all the adults around them and not enough on the students.

你在Joe身上看到的一点就是，他总是谈论孩子们。

And one of the things you see with Joe is, he always talks about the kids.

M315:01

没错。

Yeah.

Joe，我很好奇，你非常慷慨地作为投资者和顾问参与了AHA。

Joe, I'm curious, you've, you know, very generously gotten involved with AHA as an investor and advisor.

是什么让你对我们的项目感到兴奋？你又如何看待大学和高中的不同？

What excited you about what we're up to and how have you thought about the differences between college and high school?

M115:16

我超级兴奋，因为我坚信大学也需要像我们在K-12那样被重新改造，对吧？

So I'm super excited because I absolutely believe that university needs to be reinvented just like we have in K-12, right?

所以我专注于K-12，但我非常高兴你们加入并说：我们来干吧。

And so I'm focused on K-12, but I'm very excited that you guys jumped in and said, let's do this.

所以任何我能帮忙的地方，我都乐意去做。

So anything I could do to help, I want it.

第一，我需要为Alpha学校的孩子们找去处。

One, I need places for Alpha kids to go.

M315:34

嗯。

Yeah.

M115:34

对吧？

Right?

会有一整群孩子，他们会说，哦耶。

That there's gonna be a whole set of kids who are like, oh yeah.

等不及了。

Can't wait.

我想去那儿。

I want to go there.

那我们做了什么？

And so what have we done?

我们考虑了些什么？

What have we thought about?

就像你说的，这完全不一样，对吧？

To your point, it's completely different, right?

每所——我们的高中和K-8差别很大。

Each— our high school is very different than our K-8.

而且我相信大学也需要不一样。

And I believe university needs to be different.

而且我不相信那个概念——大学——是不是所有人高中毕业后都不再上大学了？

And I don't believe the whole concept of, is university— is everybody just gonna come out of high school and not go to university anymore?

我其实不这么认为。

I actually don't think that's true.

我相信重塑大学并让它变得很棒，有巨大的机会。

I believe there's a huge opportunity to reinvent university and make it awesome.

没人想去烂学校，对吧？

No one wants to go to a bad school, right?

那种学校很糟糕，而且不会让孩子做好准备。

And where it's terrible and it's not getting the kids ready.

举个例子，今年夏天有超过70名来自MIT、斯坦福和UT的学生来Alpha实习。

As an example, we had over 70 MIT and Stanford kids and UT came to Alpha this summer as interns.

我们当时说的一部分内容是，跟我们讲讲大学吧。

And part of what we were saying is, tell us about university.

过得怎么样？

How's it going?

你们怎么想？

What do you think?

然后我说，你们有多少人觉得，你们正在上的这所大学，不管哪一所，真的能让你们毕业时做好准备去面对这个世界？

And I was like, how many of you guys expect that this university, whatever one you're going to, is getting you ready for the world when you graduate.

然后只有一个孩子举手。

And one kid raised his hand.

就像是——我当时就说，真的吗？

Like, it was just like, I was like, seriously?

你们一个都没有？

Like, none of you?

然后他们说，我们很害怕。

And they're like, we're terrified.

我们不觉得——我们拼命学了12年才考上这些好大学。

We do not feel, you know, we worked, you know, our 12 years really hard to get into these great universities.

现在我们很害怕，等到毕业的时候，那些过去一毕业就能得到的工作不会有了。

And now we're terrified that, you know, when it comes time to graduate, there's not going to be those jobs that you used to get coming out of it.

你知道，那些最初一两年的工作已经没了，而AI会去做这些工作。

You know, those first one- and two-year jobs aren't there, you know, and AI is going to be doing it.

那我们该怎么办？

So what do we do?

所以今年夏天他们作为实习生花了很多时间，去设想他们认为的大学的重塑，以及他们想要什么。

And so they spent a lot of time this summer as interns, you know, coming up with what they thought, you know, would be, you know, reinvention of university and what they would want.

然后，你知道，回到孩子们想做有挑战性的事情这个话题，对吧？

And, you know, back to kids wanting to do hard things, right?

你知道，这些实习生来了以后提出，我们要构建这个教育大语言模型。

You know, these were interns and they came in and they came up, you know, we're going to build this educational LLM.

所以我们能让全世界每个人都免费使用，因为每个主权国家都需要自己的LLM，教育用的LLM，小型语言模型。

So we can make it free for everybody in the world, because every sovereign is going to need its own LLM, educational LLM, small language model.

不是那种装在设备上的小型语言模型。

So not a small language model that sits on a device.

M217:37

而且。

And.

M117:38

那些孩子每周工作80个小时，对吧？

Those kids worked 80 hours a week, right?

自己琢磨、做研究、搞明白学习的概念，对吧？

Figuring it out, doing research, figuring out the concepts of learning, right?

他们的成果会发表，对吧？

They're going to be published, right?

到最后，他们觉得，这就是我们理想中的大学。

And at the end of it, they're like, this is what we would love university to be.

对。

Yeah.

大家齐心协力攻克这么难的问题，对吧？

Where we're all working together on this super hard thing, right?

而且对世界有真正的影响。

That has meaningful impact to the world.

没错，真的能帮助改变世界的那种。

Right, that could really help change the world.

我就想，要是这些能成为课程就好了，比如在

And like, I wish these could be classes at, you know,

M318:01

对。

Yeah.

M118:01

MIT、Stanford和UT。

MIT and Stanford and UT.

嗯，但并不是，对吧？

Um, but they're not, right?

所以我就想到你们在做的事情，重新定义教育，让孩子们真正动手创造，对吧？

And that's when I think about what you guys are doing of reinventing it and letting kids really build, right?

这不只是上课的问题，而是为真实世界做准备，掌握所有你需要的技能。

It's not just about the classes, it's about getting ready for the real world and all those skills you need.

我觉得大学里的情况可能不一样，但我对你们正在做的事情非常兴奋。对，

I believe those are different at university, but I'm very excited about what you're Yeah,

M218:24

我觉得要理解这一点很重要：一个很普通但很有志向的大学生，他们需要亲手实践。

I think it's really important to understand that an average student who's going to university, who's really ambitious, they need to get their hands dirty.

因为他们三四年后就要进入真实世界了，所以自己去动手做东西、体验真实场景、犯错误、应对挑战，这超级关键。

Like, they are entering the real world in 3 to 4 years, and it's super critical for them to be going and building things and understanding what it's like and making mistakes and dealing with the challenges.

而且，我很喜欢你刚才说他们学习也是80小时的一部分。

And, you know, I really love that you said that they were studying as part of the 80 hours.

他们在Austin做每周80小时的实习，你提到了学习，我猜你没给他们布置任何教科书吧？

So they're in Austin for an 80-hour-a-week internship, and you mentioned studying, and I'm guessing you didn't assign any textbooks.

M119:05

没有，他们，回到这一点，他们必须自己去做所有研究来构建一个LLM。

No, they, and back to this, they had to go do all the research to build an LLM.

所以他们真的在研究学习科学，在研究它。

So they literally are researching learning science, researching it.

我们有一个叫Brain Lift的数据结构，他们就在那上面努力，对吧，做那些大学里所谓的经典功课。

The, you know, we have this data structure called the Brain Lift, you know, that they, and they were working hard, right, on what would be considered classical, you know, stuff you need to do at a university.

但不仅仅是学习，而是你怎么应用它、成为一个建造者，对吧？

But it wasn't just the studying It was how do you apply it and be a builder, right?

我觉得你说的做准备，其实是两者兼备。

And I think your point of getting ready is, it's both.

M219:31

嗯，你说学习90%靠动力。

Well, you talk about learning as being 90% motivation.

M119:34

对。

Yeah.

M219:35

当你18岁的时候，建造别人会用的东西就是最大的动力。

And when you're 18 years old, you're motivated by building things that people will use.

你的动力来自于收入、找份工作之类的事情。

You're motivated by revenue and getting a job and that kind of thing.

那么，为什么不把整个学习体验都建立在这种动力之上，用它来推动你真正去学习东西呢？

And so why not make the entire learning experience driven by that motivation and using that motivation to actually go and learn things?

因为我对大学的担忧是，我知道Eric和我都有这样的经历。

Because my, my concern with college is, I, I mean, I know Eric and I had this experience.

我们聊过这个。

We've talked about it.

比如，我没学到太多东西，因为我不喜欢那种形式。

Like, I didn't learn very much because I did not like the format.

说实话，现在我去斯坦福的校园或者其他学校的校园。

And to be honest, now I go to Stanford's campus or someone other, someone else's campus.

好像没人喜欢那种形式。

No one seems to like the format.

所以二十年前，我算是少数派。

So 20 years ago, I was a little bit in the minority.

可能只有20%的学生同意我的看法。

Maybe 20% of students agreed with me.

嗯，我们当时的课堂出勤率大概一半左右，我觉得。

Um, our classes were about half full, I would say, in attendance.

我听说现在远远低于10%。

I hear they're now way under 10%.

满的，你知道——学生们发现那种形式行不通。

Full, you know, people are— students are not finding the format to work.

你需要重新创造形式，才能激发动力，让他们真正学到东西。

You need to reinvent the format in order to create motivation so they actually learn things.

这也是这所学院的一个主要关注点。

And that's one of the main focuses of the academy.

M120:35

不，我觉得另一个例子是，我们Alpha High的第一届毕业生是三年前毕业的。

No, I think another example is, you know, our first graduating class from Alpha High was 3 years ago.

然后在圣诞节，当他们都在大学里待了一段时间后，我把他们聚到了一起。

And so at Christmas, after they'd all been, you know, at university, I, you know, I got them together.

我说，怎么样了？

I was like, how's it going?

就是，你们在真正的——对吧？

Like, how do you do in real— because that's right.

你们上了大学之后表现怎么样？

How do you do in university after you come out?

他们说，挺好的，我们很喜欢。

And they're like, okay, we love it.

他们全都拿了4.0的绩点，成绩很好。

They all had 4.0s, they were crushing it.

但他们说，这些一百多人的大讲座课完全是浪费时间。

But they were like, these 100 series lecture classes are a complete waste of time.

有五个人给校报写了评论文章，说这根本就是一场戏——学生们进来刷TikTok或者看电脑，不注意听讲或者干脆不来，老师也不好好教。

5 of them had written editorials to their school paper about how it's just a charade, how the kids come in, are scrolling TikTok or on their computers, not paying attention or not showing up, and the teachers aren't teaching.

他们觉得，这些课已经没必要存在了。

And they're just like, those don't need to exist anymore.

我说，那你们喜欢什么？

Right now, I was like, well, what do you like?

他们说，哦，有很多很棒的小型研讨课。

And they're like, oh, there's all these great small group seminars.

我们也在参与社团和所有相关的活动。

We're working on, you know, uh, clubs and all the activities around it.

大学就是一揽子产品，对吧？

The, you know, a university is a bundle of products, right?

他们喜欢那一揽子，但至于实际学术部分，比如那些大型讲座课之类的，他们说，那些需要被淘汰。

And they liked, you know, the bundle, but the actual academic part of like these big lecture classes and stuff, they're like, that needs to go away.

M321:39

是的。

Yeah.

M221:40

而且疯狂的是，你所说的那个学术部分，其实是大学正式提供的唯一东西。

And what's crazy is that that academic part that you're talking about is the only thing the university formally provides.

所以实际上，剩下的那些都是学生自己驱动的。

So it's actually the, the rest of the bundle is student-driven.

M121:50

是的。

Yeah.

M221:50

嗯，学术部分大概占了50%的时间，对吧？

Um, and the academic stuff takes up about 50% of the time, right?

M121:55

嗯，我，对，我从斯坦福辍学了，对吧？

Well, so I just, right, I dropped out of Stanford, right?

我当时就是那样一个孩子。

And I was this kid.

M222:00

嗯。

Yeah.

M122:00

这其实，它没有占我50%的时间，因为我根本不去上课。

Which was, it didn't take up 50% of my time because I didn't go to classes.

有道理。

Fair.

M222:03

我也是。

Me neither.

M122:04

但如果你去，如果你去上课，那就占50%。

But if you go, if you go to the classes, it takes 50%.

但回到，我，我在那里的经历，你知道，我在那待的几年，感觉很好，都是因为其他那些事情。

But back to, I, my experience there and, you know, for the couple years I was there, it was great because of all the other things.

我遇到的那些人，史蒂夫·乔布斯来过，对吧？

The people I met, Steve Jobs came down, right?

M222:15

对。

Yeah.

M122:16

他做了个演讲，我的一个朋友去了，还在NeXT工作过。还有比尔·乔伊和斯科特·麦克尼利会来讲课，之后你可以去和他们交流或者一起吃午饭。

Was giving a talk and one of my friends went and was working at NeXT and Bill Joy and Scott McNealy would come and talk and you'd go spend time with them afterward or have lunch.

所有这些经历——你遇到了谁，看到了真实的世界，还有和朋友们一起搞东西，对吧？

All of those experiences that you had of who you met and seeing the real world, plus building stuff with my friends, right?

那最终变成了我们的公司，对吧？

That eventually became our company, right?

对我来说，那才是这个产品最好的地方。

That was what was great about the product to me.

而坐在那些讲座式的课堂里，恰恰相反。

And sitting in these lecture classes were the opposite of that.

M322:44

嗯。

Yeah.

我们讨论过一点是怎么让学生爱上它。

One thing we've talked about is how to make the students love it.

但当然，你知道，在孩子去哪里上学这件事上，更重要的参与者其实是他们的父母。

But of course, you know, even more important constituent in terms of where kids go to school is their parents.

那就谈谈你和家长的对话是如何演变的，不管是关于早期教育还是高等教育，以及你给他们的一些建议。

And so talk about how the conversations you're having with parents are evolving, whether it relates to, you know, early education or higher education and some of the advice that you give them.

M123:03

好啊。

Great.

所以，你知道，嗯。

So, you know, yeah.

我现在跟成千上万的家长交流，你知道，大概在K-12这个范围。

So I talk to tens of thousands of parents now, you know, sort of in the K-12 range.

我其实对这种转变感到震惊。仍然有一些家庭会说，“我是幼儿园孩子的家长，我想看到一条直通常春藤联盟的路。”

And I've been shocked actually at the switch, which is there's still some families who are like, I'm a kindergarten parent and I want to see the direct path right into the Ivy League.

但同样多，甚至更多的，是那些自己上过斯坦福或哈佛的家长，他们会说，不，我知道我不想让我的孩子走那条路。

But an equal number, maybe even more, of parents who went to Stanford or Harvard who are like, no, I know I don't want my kid on that path.

那你该怎么让他们为一个不是那样的世界做好准备呢？

How are you going to get them ready for a world that's not that?

M323:37

对。

Yeah.

M123:37

对吧？

Right?

而且他们绝对想看到这种替代路径，因为当他们在看的时候，尤其是在幼儿园阶段，他们会展望十二年之后，然后想：我该怎么办呢？

And they absolutely want to see this alternative path because when they look, especially even in kindergarten, they look forward 12 years from now and they're like, what am I going to do?

那你是怎么让我的孩子为这个世界做好准备的？

And how are you preparing my kid for the world?

他们对世界的看法是，是的，我上了Ivy League，但我的孩子不会走这条路。

And their vision of the world is, yes, I went to the Ivy League, but that's not going to be for my kid.

我不认为那能让他们做好准备。

I don't think that's going to get them ready.

如果你告诉我的是这个，那我就不想要你的K-12学校。

And if you're telling me that, I don't want your K-12 school.

M324:02

对。

Yeah.

M124:02

所以现在这种情况经常发生，他们在寻找，还有什么选择呢？

And so that's happening a lot now and they're looking for what are they?

因为我觉得，与过去三四十年相比，现在人们真的认识到世界在发生巨大变化。

Because I think there's recognition now, versus maybe the last 30 or 40 years, that the world is really changing.

M324:14

对。

Yeah.

M124:14

对吧？

Right?

如果你是11年级或12年级的学生，我跟你说这些，那家长基本上已经认命了。

And if you're an 11th grader or a 12th grader and I'm talking to you, the parents are sort of done.

他们就像在说，只要把我孩子送进大学就行，对吧？

They're like, just get my kid into college, right?

或者他们会说，我已经走上这条路了，而且已经到了五码线。

Or they're sort of like, I've been on this route and I'm at the 5-yard line.

我不会把所有牌都抛到空中。

I'm not throwing all the cards up in the air.

但当你看更小的孩子，对吧，那些家长就会觉得，当前这条路根本不可能是正确的。

But when you look younger, right, those parents are like, there's just no way that the current path is going to be the right one.

所以当我想到这一点的时候，我预期——我不知道你们什么时候会迎来需求——你们会从所有孩子那里得到巨大的需求，他们会说，好吧，我必须去做这件事。

And so when I think of this, I would expect, and I don't know when you get your demand, you're going to have massive demand from all the kids who are going to be like, okay, I have to go do this.

这太明显了。

It's so obvious.

这太棒了。

This is awesome.

然后你们还需要对家长做另一套说服工作，让他们明白：你看，虽然这不是你们当年走的路，但这就是该走的路。

And then you will have to have a separate sales job with the parents to show them, look, while it wasn't the way you did it, this is the way.

而且这有一个历史先例，对你们可能有用，你们可以了解一下：1910年时，90%的美国人都只上到八年级。

And there's a historical precedent for this that might be useful for you if you want to go through it, which is in 1910, 90% of America had an 8th grade education.

基本上没有高中。

There were no high schools, basically.

你想想看。

Come on.

而且超过30%的美国人都是农民。

And over 30% of America's a farmer.

所以每个人都在农场里。

And so everybody's on the farm.

八年级就够了。

8th grade was enough.

到了高中年纪，你就在田里干活。

You're working the fields in high school.

然后在1910年，拖拉机——Case拖拉机——开进了美国农场。

And then in 1910, the tractor, Case tractor rolled up on the American farm.

而且说真的，你可以去看看当时的广告。

And literally you can go look at the ads.

它看起来简直就像Anthropic的广告。

It literally looks like an Anthropic ad.

它相当于50个程序员的工作量。

It does the work of 50 programmers.

程序员能做50个农场工人的工作。

Programmers do the work of 50 farmhands.

而且实际上每个美国人都意识到30%的工作要消失了，对吧？

And literally everybody in America realized 30% of the jobs are going away, right?

我的孩子和孩子的孩子，我们这样做已经好几代了。

My kids and grandkids, we've been doing this for generations.

已经没有了。

It's gone.

那条路已经走不通了。

That path is gone.

而我们得让孩子为这个新未来做好准备。

And we have to get our kids ready for this new future.

M325:57

嗯。

Yeah.

M125:58

而我认为现在的家长们也有同样的认识。

And it was that same recognition I think that parents have today.

传统的路径就是那些工作。

The traditional path is those jobs.

就是那些夏天回来的孩子，他们感觉就像，我从斯坦福、MIT毕业，结果却找不到工作。

It's the kids coming in the summer where they're like, I'm going to get out of Stanford, MIT, I'm not going to have a job.

但当时美国所做的是，13万个城镇，我们曾经有——他们投票决定提高税收。

But what America did back then is 130,000 towns, we used to have a— they voted to actually raise their taxes.

而关键部分是，资助一种他们从未体验过的教育。

And this is the key part, fund an education that they'd never experienced.

他们从未见过高中课程。

They'd never seen a high school curriculum.

他们从未上过高中的。

They'd never been to high school.

他们只受过八年级教育，但他们知道必须做一些跟自己背景不同的事情。

They had an 8th grade education, but they knew they had to do something different than their background.

对吧？

Right?

他们必须以不同的眼光看待世界，才能让孩子做好准备，对吗？

They had to see the world differently to get their kids ready, right?

并让他们获得好工作，而那时那个学校系统变成了过去100年里我们拥有的工业系统。

And get them the good jobs, which back then that school system became the industrial system we've had the last 100 years.

它很好地服务了我们100年，但现在是时候进行下一个改变了。

It served us really well for 100 years, but now it's time for the next change.

而你必须说服家庭像那些1910年的农村农民那样认识到：虽然我没经历过，而且这跟我过去做的不一样，但这是我的孩子在未来茁壮成长所需要的。

And you're going to have to convince the families to be like those 1910 rural farmers who realized, while I haven't experienced it and it's different than what I did, this is what my kid needs to thrive in the future.

M227:04

是的。

Yeah.

那你会对这样的家长说什么，他们会说，你知道，嘿，我要送孩子去常春藤名校。

And what would you say to the parent who's saying, you know, hey, I'm sending my kid to an Ivy League school.

我知道这不完美，但这是一个新的机构。

I know it's not perfect, but this is a new institution.

你知道，为什么我要冒风险？

You know, why should I take a risk?

为什么你会考虑在这个学院上冒险？

Why would you consider taking a risk on the academy?

M127:23

嗯。

Yeah.

所以其实我过去四年里一直在K-12级别的教育中经历这个。

So I've been living this actually at the K-12 level now for 4 years.

而说到幸运之处，你不必指望所有人，对吧？

And it is one where, back to the lucky part is you don't need everybody, right?

总会有一批人的。

There's going to be that set.

当我跟家庭交流时，这就是一个像其他任何事一样的采纳曲线。

And when I talk to families, it's an adoption curve just like any other one.

有一群家庭完全意识到当前系统不行了，对吧？

And there's a set of families who absolutely realize the current system's just not there, right?

或者那些人坐在那里说，我感觉得到，但我需要被推一把。

Or the people who sit there and say, I feel it, but I just need to be moved over.

M227:56

两者都有。

Both.

M127:56

我女儿们，对吧？

My daughters, right?

她们在八年级的时候被告知，如果去了Alpha学校，就上不了大学，必须去传统学校，对吧？

Were told they're not going to get into college when they were in 8th grade if they went to Alpha and they had to go to a traditional school, right?

而且那种情况根本不可能发生。

And there was just no chance that that would occur.

所以存在这种两分法，但对于家长来说，如果你看看四年前去了Alpha的那些家庭，对吧？

And so there is that dichotomy, but for parents, if you look sort of across the families who went to Alpha 4 years ago, right?

而那些没去的，就是去了Alpha高中和没去的对比，有更多家庭说，我当初真该把孩子送到Alpha，对吧？

And the ones who didn't, went to Alpha High versus not, there's a lot more families who are like, I totally should have sent my kid to Alpha, right?

我走了传统路线，对吧？

That I went the traditional path, right?

我以为那是安全的路，但完全不是。

I thought it was the safe path and it totally wasn't.

再看看那些Alpha的孩子多么出色。

And look at how those Alpha kids are thriving.

我之前觉得那些人疯了、冒险，但现在看看现实，我家孩子没去Alpha，对比那些去了的，他们后悔了。

And I thought those guys were crazy and risky, but now looking at the reality of what happened with my kid who didn't go to Alpha versus those, they regret it.

我相信你必须熬过第一年，因为那时没有任何数据，但一年之后，人们就会看到学生们发展得很好，对吧？

And I believe that you have to get through the first year because you don't have any data, but one year in, people are going to see that the students are thriving, right?

一旦你看到了，那就有对比了。

And once you see that, then that's the comparison.

我甚至要回顾我自己的经历，我现在说得很积极乐观，但Alpha不是我12年前创办的，对吧？

And I'll even go back to my own experience on this, which is I sort of am talking very positive and optimistic, but I didn't start Alpha 12 years ago, right?

是Mackenzie Price和Brian创办的。

Mackenzie Price and Brian did.

我上的是天主教学校，我的孩子们也上的是天主教学校。

And I went to Catholic school, my kids were in Catholic school.

我不喜欢那样，但家长们希望孩子像自己一样接受教育。

I didn't like it, but parents want their kids educated the way they are.

这就是遗留问题。

That's the legacy.

那就是问题所在，对吧？

That's the problem, right?

那是你必须克服的。

That's what you have to overcome.

所以我的孩子们在天主教学校，然后，你知道，麦肯齐说，来我的新学校吧。

And so my kids are in Catholic school and no, you know, and, and McKinsey's like, well, come to my new school.

对。

Right.

而且我，我大学辍学了。

And I, I dropped outta college.

比如我，我在车库里创办了一家初创公司，然后我想，学校不应该在车库里。

Like I, I started a startup in a garage and I'm like, schools shouldn't be in a garage.

这太奇怪了。

Like, this is so weird.

对吧。

Right.

你搞了个破破烂烂、奇怪的学校，麦肯齐。

You have a janky, weird school, McKinsey.

那完全正确。

And that was totally right.

我是对的。

I was right.

对。

Right.

然后我花了两年时间。

And then it took 2 years for me.

所以我才是那个慢的人，对吧？

So I was the slow one, right?

嗯。

Yeah.

我花了两年才转过弯来。

It took me 2 years to move over.

嗯，然后，最后，那是十年前的事了，你知道，结果对我们家来说显然很好。

Um, and, uh, and then finally, and that was 10 years ago and it, you know, obviously turned out great for you know, our family.

但我回头看这事，我的孩子们到现在还骂我，说我那两年太慢了，对吧？

But I look at that, my kids still yell at me for being slow those 2 years, right?

他们就说，爸，你本应该早点开始的。

They're like, you should have started earlier, dad.

但就是那个概念，你知道，找到那些家庭。

But that concept of, you know, finding those families.

所以我们走遍全国各地，对吧？

And so we travel all around the country, right?

我们已经开了50个校区，你知道，每次招生说明会来上千人，你会说，谁想当第一批的10个？

We've opened 50 campuses, you know, and you get, you know, 1,000 people in the info session and you're like, who wants to be the first 10?

谁想当第一批的25个或50个？

Who wants to be the first 25 or 50?

对。

Right.

一年前我们开那12个校区的时候，招生说明会真的有上千人，但我们连25个人都拉不到，对吧？

And a year ago when we were opening the 12 campuses, literally 1,000+ people in info sessions and we couldn't get get 25, right?

我们只能拉到，你知道，10个人，对吧？

We would get, you know, 10, right?

我们在纽约开校区时，只有，你知道，10个或12个人。

We opened New York City with, you know, 10 or 12.

然后，嗯，现在那个校区已经满了。

And, uh, now the campus is full.

M330:38

嗯。

Yeah.

M130:38

对。

Right.

总共150个人，你知道。

The 150, you know, total people.

M230:41

嗯。

Yeah.

M130:41

而且，你知道，他们得先看到第一批人成功了，然后它就推广开了。

And, you know, they had to go see the first ones that it works and then it's there.

所以你的第一届，第一批永远是那些人，他们会说，我知道这不行。

So your first, the first class is always those people who are like, I know it's bad.

但我愿意跳进来。

I want to jump in.

你会立刻看到，某种程度上我们也在需求端看到的是，人们只是需要有人先走一步。

What you'll see immediately and sort of what we're seeing on the demand is people just need someone to go first.

一旦你有了第一批人，而且它成功了，需求就会直线飙升。

And once you get that first and it works, the demand just skyrockets.

M331:05

而且做第一批人的好处很大。

And the benefits of being first are high.

我从那些送孩子去Alpha的同事和朋友那里看到，甚至那些做过类似Thiel Fellowship的朋友身上，一开始申请人数也很少，这些早期申请的人就是有勇气坚持自己的信念。

What I see in colleagues and friends who are sending their kids to Alpha, or even friends who've done something like the Thiel Fellowship, which is also small application numbers in the beginning, is those people who are applying early have the courage of their conviction.

这是一种正向的自我选择。

It's positive self-selection.

所以你身边都是些最聪明、最勇敢的人，无论是孩子还是家长层面。

And so you're around some of the most brilliant people, some of the most courageous people, both on the kid level and the parent level.

而且，呃，这真的是一次非常棒的经历。

And, uh, it's really just a phenomenal experience.

M131:31

而我，那是贝克的建议，呃，你绝对想要那种孩子和家长两边都到位的家庭，对吧？

And I, that is Beck's advice, uh, that you absolutely want the families who are both sides, right?

都是全力以赴的，因为过程中肯定会有一些小波折，对吧？

All in, because it is, there will be hiccups, right?

就是，总会有意外发生，然后……

There's just, there's hiccups that happen and.

M231:42

那当然。

For sure.

M131:43

而且，你知道，这就是创业初期的一部分。那些特别怀疑、属于那种，你知道，后期采用者的人，他们就是不会在那里。

And, you know, it's just, it's part of it when you're starting and someone who's super skeptical and on the, you know, the late adopter side, they're just gonna, not right there.

这会毁了他们的，对吧？

It's going to destroy them, right?

因为他们应付不来。

Because they won't be able to handle it.

而那些真正想要这个产品的人，对吧？

The people who are over here who really want the product, right?

我们说的是 magnet marketing。

We talk about magnet marketing.

你要吸引对的人，排斥错的人。

You want to attract the right people and repel the wrong.

而那些愿意当落后者的人，会说“我不喜欢AI，也不喜欢屏幕时间”。

And people who want to be laggards, I don't like AI or screen time.

在招生说明会上就有一批人这么说。

That's a set of people in the info session say that.

我就会说，那你们就不该来。

I'm like, you shouldn't come.

M232:10

对，完全同意。

Yeah, totally.

M132:11

如果你不能权衡这个项目到底是什么，那么明确你的产品定义，我觉得大多数学校都没做到这一点。

If you can't balance what this offering is, being clear on your product definition is a thing that I don't think most schools do.

但如果你对自己的产品定义很清晰——我们是什么、我们不是什么——这就能帮你找到对的群体，而且这正好是你说的，当对的群体聚在一起时的那种效果，对吧？

But if you're clear on your product definition, this is what we are, this is what we're not, it helps find the right group and exactly what you talk about when the right group's together, right?

因为有一部分就是社群，对吧？

Because part of it's community, right?

你在那里建立社群，所有的孩子，还有家长社群，在做初创时真的很重要。

You're building the community there, all the kids who are there and the parent community does matter when you're doing startup.

我们的创始家庭现在是最大的资产之一。

Our founding families are one of our biggest assets now.

对。

Yeah.

你知道，在我们学校是这样，我相信你们做的也会一样。

You know, at our school and I believe it'll be the same for what you're doing.

对。

Yeah.

M232:42

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这让我想到两件事。

I think that that makes me think of 2 things.

第一，我觉得我们会严格把关谁能进来，而不是太在意班级规模。

One is I think we're going to be pretty like strict about who gets in and less about class size.

你告诉过我，我也听过这个。

You've told me this, I've heard this.

我觉得这是非常重要的一课。

I think that's a very important lesson.

第二个教训是，这种东西你不希望大多数人都想要。

The second lesson I think is that this is the type of thing where you don't want most people to want it.

你想要真正想做这件事的人去做。

You want the people who really want it to do it.

然后我还想补充一点，就是我们确实把它做成了一年制，而且第一年也不是没有学费的。

And then I'll actually, I'll add one more thing, which is we did make it one year and it's not no tuition the first year.

所以它的风险也比——你知道，错过八年级那种情况——要稍微小一点。

So it is also a little bit less risky than, you know, you're missing 8th grade.

对。

Yeah.

而且你没法重来，你知道，你不想错过八年级，但如果你在大学里绕了一年的路，你随时可以回去。

And you can't repeat, you know, you don't wanna miss 8th grade, but if you take 1-year detour from college, you can always go back.

真的没什么区别。

It's really no different.

所以我确实认为这是我们的优势之一。

So I do think that's one of the things we have the benefit.

有意思的是看到大学经历和高中经历之间的细微差别，因为风险在不同方向上是不一样的。

It's one of, it's interesting to see the nuances of a college experience versus a high school experience, 'cause the stakes are different in different directions.

M133:43

我相信这会是你在家长面前的一个优势，这一年的项目没有坏处，对吧？

I believe that is gonna be one of your assets with the parents on the 1 year is there's no downside, right?

尝试没有坏处。

There's no downside to trying.

对吧？

It, right?

而且你随时可以在其他大学延期入学，或者重新申请。

And you can always defer at some other college or reapply.

这样你就没有关闭其他选项。

And so you're not shutting down other options.

再说家长那边，你会看到当孩子喜欢的时候——回到学校这件事90%靠动力——如果我在跟这里的家长说，他们的孩子真的很想去，我给你们的建议就是让他们去做，对吧？

And just to the parent stuff, what you'll see is when your kid loves it, back to schools being 90% motivation, if I was talking to the parents here, their kid really wants to go, I just give you advice for all the stuff is just let 'em go do it, right?

M334:17

对。

Yeah.

M134:17

就算我们说这事在他身上没成，对吧？

Let's even just say it doesn't work out for him, right?

那也无所谓。

And whatever.

而且这不会是——这会是他一生中最好的学习经历，对吧？

And it's not— it'll be the best learning experience of their life, right?

而且他会准备好去做其他的事情。

And they'll be right ready to do the other.

而反着来，那就真的不是——

And fighting that the other way, it just isn't—.

M334:30

那风险更大。

That's riskier.

M134:31

不，风险大得多。

No, it's much riskier.

而且我们可以讲讲我那边很多高中阶段的故事。

And we can go to a lot of stories I have of those at our high school level.

M234:36

嗯，我觉得实际上——如果你，你想想我们三个人，我们——其实我们认识很多像我们一样的人，在某个阶段不喜欢学校。

Well, I think that's actually— if you, if you think about the 3 of us, and we're— there are actually like many people we all know who are like us, who didn't love school at some point.

我们最不喜欢的是什么？

And what is the thing that, that we dislike the most?

M134:50

对。

Yeah.

M234:51

对我来说，就是被强迫去做我并不认同的事情。

And for me, it was that I was being forced to do things that I was not bought into.

M134:55

对。

Yeah.

M234:56

就像我的自主意识在13、14、15岁的时候开始增长。

Like my agency had started to grow, 13, 14, 15 years old.

然后我开始，你知道，看到皇帝没穿衣服。

And I started to, you know, see the emperor had no clothes.

然后我开始觉得，等等，我的老师其实根本不知道怎么教数学。

And I started to, to believe like, wait a second, my teacher doesn't actually know how to teach math.

好像这不是教数学的最好方式。

Like this might not be the best way to teach math.

哦，糟了。

Oh shoot.

所以我现在还得去考这个无聊的试，你懂的。我觉得 Academy 和 Alpha 的一个教学理念就是，围绕学生来设计课程，提高你——或者说降低学生产生那种叛逆心理的概率。

So I gotta take this stupid test now, you know, and, um, and so I think that one of the pedagogical philosophies of the Academy and of Alpha is that you design it around the student to increase the chance that you— or to decrease the chance that you get that rebellion.

相反，如果他们发自内心认同，他们就更有可能茁壮成长，把事情做好。

And instead, if you have buy-in, they're much more likely to thrive and do things.

所以，你知道——

And so, you know—

M135:40

对，我觉得这——我跟你说个亲身经历吧。我从小到高中，一直都很捣蛋，对吧？

No, and I think that's— and I'll tell the personal story on this, which is, you know, I, during my K-12, I was always in trouble, right?

我老逃学。

I was skipping school all the time.

我考进斯坦福的时候只是混了个最低要求，然后我还退学了，对吧？

I did the minimum to get into Stanford, you know, and then I dropped out, right?

我退学之后，我爸有句很有名的话，还被 Forbes 登过，他说我儿子就是个傻子，那种的，对吧。

And when I dropped out, my dad had a famous quote that was like on Forbes or whatever, you know, my son's a moron, you know, and, you know, and it sort of, right.

他当时很不高兴。

And he was not happy.

但文章里没写的是，过了几年之后。

And, you know, but then the part that didn't get in the article was, you know, a couple years later.

我退学之后就开始创业，做得特别棒。

So I dropped out and then I started, you know, my company and it was awesome.

然后突然之间，我每周工作一百个小时，睡在办公桌底下，简直是忙疯了。

And then all of a sudden I'm working 100 hours a week and we're sleeping under the desks and it's just, you know, it's crazy, crazy, crazy.

然后两年后，他就说，我得改变想法了。

And, you know, 2 years later he is like, you know, I, I gotta change my mind.

你退学这件事简直是最棒的决定。

This was the greatest thing ever that you dropped out.

他还说，我必须承认，我真的很担心你会变成一个懒鬼，你懂吧？

He's like, you know, I, I have to admit, you know, I was really worried that you were gonna be a lazy little shit, you know?

因为你整个学业表现就是那样，对吧？

And 'cause that's what your academic career was, right?

他说，作为一个父亲，我当时特别害怕自己哪里没做好。

And he was like, as a dad, you know, I was just terrified that I had, you know, done.

M236:41

没做好。

Poorly.

然后他说，现在。

And he is like, now.

M136:43

你看，现在你在做你喜欢的事，对吧？

See that now that you're doing what you love, right?

而且你全身心投入。

And you're fully engaged.

天哪，我早该让你这么做了。

Golly, I should have, you know, gotten this done earlier.

我觉得这跟当学生是一样的，就像我们说的，要建一所他们比过假期还喜欢的学校。

And I think that's the same thing when you have a student, like when we talk about building a school they love more than vacation.

M336:56

没错。

Yeah.

M136:56

让他们参与到自己热爱的事情里，对吧？

You're engaging 'em around stuff they love, right?

当你这样做的时候，就会发生那些事——所有那些家长都说，我家孩子一个月之内就变了。

And when you do that, that's what causes, well, all the parents who say my kid changed in a month.

对。

Yeah.

那是因为我们让他们做他们想做但又有难度的事情。

It's because we have 'em doing hard things that they want to do.

M337:06

嗯。

Yeah.

M137:06

对吧？

Right?

然后突然间它就变了，就是这么快。

And all of a sudden it does change and it's that quick.

M337:09

嗯。

Yeah.

M137:09

对吧？

Right?

有一所学校，你的孩子愿意去，是因为他们要去做有挑战的事情，对吧？你知道，这是很棒的事。

And having a school where your kid wants to go to it because they're going to be doing hard things, right? It's, you know, a great thing.

我相信这就是为什么，我认为这会大获成功的原因之一，因为你会吸引到那些孩子，对吧，他们会想：我知道这很难。

And I believe that's why, one of the reasons why I think this is going to be a home run, because you're going to get all these kids, right, who are like, I know it's hard.

我就是想去做这件事。

I want to go do this.

我可以在普通学校里混日子，但我不会选那条路。

I can coast through normal school, and I'm not going to pick that path.

相反，我要选这个，它会比其他所有学校都更难，对吧？

Instead, I'm going to pick this, and this is going to be harder than all the other schools, right?

M337:37

嗯。

Yeah.

M137:37

而你在那些学校做的事情。

And what you're doing in all of those.

这也是，你知道，这就是其中的一部分。

And that's the, you know, that's part of it.

而且孩子们喜欢这样。

And kids love it.

你知道，我们高中有一个 World School，他们会在非洲待一年，做一年服务，他们得签一份合同，上面写着：我意识到这将是我人生中最艰难的一年，对吧？

You know, we have in our high school a World School where they're spending a year in Africa, a year of service, and they have to sign a contract that's like, I realize this will be the hardest year of my life, right?

他们全都签了，而且都很喜欢，超级兴奋地想去，对吧？

And they all sign it and they all love it and they're super excited to go, right?

我相信这差不多就是类似的事情，嗯。

And I believe this is sort of the equivalent, uh, of that.

M237:57

顺便说一句，提一点，我在非洲待过不少时间。

By the way, one note, I've spent a fair amount of time in Africa.

我会送一些孩子去印度或者斯里兰卡。

I would send some kids to India or Sri Lanka.

那会难得多。

It's going to be much harder.

M138:04

就这么定了。

There we go.

好的。

Okay.

好吧，那会列在名单上。

Well, that'll be on the list.

那会是，它叫 World School。

That'll be, it's called World School.

所以你看。

So there you go.

嗯。

Yeah.

M238:10

嗯。

Yeah.

我开玩笑的。

I'm just kidding.

M138:10

但我喜欢这个主意。

But I love that.

M238:11

我觉得非洲，你在做一件了不起的事。

I think Africa, that's such an amazing thing that you're doing.

我们之前聊过的一个愿望，就是我们有笔津贴。

One of our wishes that we've talked about, we have a stipend.

这个我们不太常提，但我们已经给每个学生 allocated 了五千美元的旅行预算。

We don't talk about this too much, but we've already allocated $5,000 per student to, uh, for a travel budget.

然后我个人的目标是——当然他们自己决定怎么用这笔旅行预算。

And my personal goal, now they get to decide how they use the travel budget.

我不会强迫任何人，但我个人希望很多学生能独自去那些人均 GDP 低于两万美元的国家。

I'm not going to force anything on anyone, but my personal goal is that a lot of them go solo to countries with less than $20,000 GDP per capita.

M138:38

这个想法很棒。

That's a great idea.

M338:40

是啊。

Yeah.

就是提供一点视角。

Just a little perspective.

M138:41

不，我完全喜欢这个——我觉得这非常有价值。

No, I totally love— I think that is, that's super valuable.

M238:44

对。

Yeah.

你能学到很多关于自己和人生的东西，而且我觉得这也能提供一些视角，对商业当然也有帮助。

You learn so much about yourself and about life, and I think that it also will provide perspective that will help in business, of course.

M138:53

没错，肯定的。

Yeah, definitely.

M338:53

你知道吗，回到你之前提到的那个想法，就是那些孩子——你讲的那个故事——你的父母——让我想起，像我们小时候，还有一些所谓的在学校里“懒”的孩子，他们拿不到 4.0 只是因为不投入。

You know, it's so funny going back to this idea of, you know, kids who are— the story you mentioned— your parents— reminds me, you know, kids like us when we were younger and others who are quote-unquote lazy in school and that they don't get 4.0 because they're just not bought in.

但是当他们找到自己热爱的事情，他们愿意每周投入一百个小时。

But when they find the thing, they're willing to put 100-hour weeks.

这样的人有很多。

There's so many people like that.

反过来说，也有另一类人，他们能门门拿 A。

And conversely, there are people on the other side who will get straight A's.

可一旦脱离了结构化的环境，他们并没有真正培养出那种内在的渴望，或者找到自己热爱的东西的能力。

But once you take away the structure, they haven't really cultivated this inner desire or this ability to find what they love.

等到他们进入职场，技能要求完全不同了，他们就没办法用同样的方式运转了。

And when they get to the working world, in which the skills are just remarkably different, they can't operate in the same way.

这让我想到，我们正在创造空间——你在更早的年龄就创造了空间——让人们真正接触到自己在乎的东西，变得更加自我驱动。

And it just strikes me that we're going to just create the space and you're creating the space from a much earlier age where people really get to get in touch with what they care about, be much more self-driven.

嗯，这真的很强大。

And, um, yeah, it's just really powerful.

M139:39

对，不，那个，你知道——没错，那些就是——所有那些生活技能是什么？

Yeah, no, that, you know, the— correct, that those are— what are all the life skills?

这就是我们说的全面发展的人。

That's when we talk about a holistic person.

不仅仅是他们的 GPA 是多少。

It's not just what their GPA was.

而且你可以在成绩上拿到满分，但这不代表你在现实世界里就能表现得好。

And, and you can, you know, uh, score max on just your grades, but that is not something that means you do well in the real world.

我觉得家长们其实也意识到，你需要更全面发展。

And I think parents actually realize that, you know, you need to be more well-rounded.

他们只是没有一条路径去实现。

They just don't have a path of doing it.

而且我相信，回到重塑大学这个话题，你会向他们展示：这里有很多东西本应是大学课程的一部分，而不是孩子们可选的社团活动。

And I believe that one of the things, back to reinventing university, you're going to show them, here's all these things that should be part of the university curriculum, not a club that the kids, you know, optionally do.

嗯，所以我觉得那会是一件很好的事情。

Um, and so I think that's going to be a great, a great thing.

我觉得雇主们显然也会意识到同样的事情。

I, I think employers obviously would realize the same thing.

M240:25

对，我——说实话，雇主们看起来非常认可这个。

Yeah, I— the employers seem very bought in, honestly.

M140:28

对，那部分——整件事中那部分没有任何问题，对吧？

Yeah, that part's— that part of the whole thing is there's no, there's no, there's no problem on that pitch, which Right?

现在有多少雇主会说，这些毕业出来的孩子，对吧？

The number of employers who are like, these kids coming out, right?

根本不具备做这件事的技能和能力。

Don't have the skills and capability to do it.

也就是说，你知道，如果在我真正创办公司之前，你把我拉过去，看着我说，你准备好工作了吗？

And it is that, you know, they, well, if you had just taken me, you know, before I actually started my company and looked at me and said, you know, are you ready for a job?

我并没有准备好。

I wasn't.

但后来，你知道，在我做这个课外项目两年之后，对吧？

But then, you know, two years later after I was doing this outside project, right?

这个非学术性的项目，然后我就觉得，哦，我大概是那种很值得雇用的员工了。

This, you know, non-academic project, then I'm like, oh, I'm probably a pretty good employee to hire.

M241:01

对，其实挺有意思的，因为大多数雇主的问题并不是技能差距，不是说你会不会写代码、做产品或者搞设计。

Yeah, it's funny actually, because the issue that most employers have is not one of a skills gap in the, like, do you know how to code or build products or design?

而是，我的意思是，我们听到最多的其实是人际交往能力、成熟度，还有系统思维。

It's, I mean, what we hear more than anything is people skills, maturity, and systems thinking.

你知道，这些才是真正的技能。

You know, those things are the actual skills.

所以，学习这些东西的唯一方法，其实就是跟很多人打交道，必须去搭建复杂的系统，对吧？

So, the only way to learn those things is to actually just interact with lots of people, have to build complex systems, right?

而且还要能够强迫自己去面对被拒绝的现实，经历那种没有人给你安排好一切、必须自己去规划一切的成长过程。

And being able to, forcing yourself to deal with the reality of rejection and sort of the maturation process of not having things structured for you, but having to structure them yourself.

M141:45

对，没错，回到AI让智能商品化这个话题，对吧？

Yeah, no, those, back to AI commoditizing intelligence, right?

所以沿着这个思路，当你可以问它的时候，你就会想，那你真正想要的人类特质是什么，对吧？

And so going on this, when you can ask it, you're like, well, what is, what are the human traits you want, right?

答案就是，领导力，对吧？

And it is, it's leadership, right?

是团队协作能力。

It's being able to work in a team.

是主动性，对吧？

It's agency, right?

是主人翁意识。

It's ownership.

还有接受反馈的能力，就像你说的。

It's receiving feedback, as you say.

所有这些技能，对吧，你必须拥有，而且能通过做项目获得，但坐在教室里是学不到的。

All of those skills, right, that you have to have that you can get from doing projects, but you don't get from sitting in class.

M342:12

对。

Yeah.

有很多问题在问，AI对编程会有什么影响？

There's a lot of questions around what is AI doing to coding?

AI对数学会有什么影响？

What is AI doing to math?

AI对物理又会有什么影响？

What's it going to do to physics?

如果你带着你现在的认知，但今天是18岁，也有你自己的兴趣，你会怎么思考？如果在像HIA这样的地方，你有灵活度去设计自己的教育，基于你对世界走向的判断和你自己的兴趣，你会怎么考虑自己会有动力去学什么？

If you were, knowing what you know now, but if you were 18 years old today with your interests, how would you think about, if you had the flexibility at something like HIA to kind of design your own education, how would you think about what you would be motivated to learn based on where you see the world going and your own interests?

M142:35

嗯。

Yeah.

我其实有一个这样的框架，对吧？

So I sort of have this framework, right?

当然，你知道，这里面有一个认知负荷的概念，对吧？

And of course, you know, there's sort of cognitive load, right?

而AI能让你以10倍的速度往脑子里装知识，对吧？

And AI allows you to fill your head with knowledge 10 times faster, right?

所以这些孩子可以比以往任何时候都更快地成为他们想要深耕领域的专家。

So these kids can become domain experts in their field that they want to faster than ever.

M342:54

对。

Yeah.

M142:54

对吧？

Right?

我是说，我高中有孩子正在重建我写的Timeback软件栈。

I mean, I have kids in my high school who are rebuilding the Timeback software stack that I wrote.

M343:00

对吧？

Right?

M143:00

而且他们正在成为学习科学的专家，并且能够做到这一点，对吧？

And they're becoming experts in learning science and being able to do this, right?

这在以前的高中是不可能做到的。

Which wasn't able to be done before in high school.

是的。

Yeah.

所以认知卸载这部分，因为速度快了10倍，你做起来不会花很长时间。

So the cognitive unload part, because it's 10 times faster, you do it and it doesn't take that long.

M343:14

对。

Yeah.

M143:14

对吧？

Right?

所以我可以在一年内获得相当于硕士学位的水平，你知道吗，对吧？

And so I can get the equivalent of a master's, you know, while I'm, you know, in a year, right?

而且，你知道，完成那部分。

And, you know, do that part.

但第二部分是，AI给了你成为创造者的机会，对吧？

But then the second part is the AI gives you a chance to be a builder, right?

它给你超能力，让你拥有无人能及的构建能力，对吧？

It gives you superpowers to build like no one else, right?

而且我相信，那些会进入你大学的孩子，他们会意识到，我想构建一些东西，而且我会比以往任何时候都学得更快，不管什么先修课程，就像今年夏天那些实习生一样，对吧？

And I believe that's the kids who are going to be at your university is they're going to realize, I want to build something and I'm going to learn faster than I ever have, whatever prereq, just like those, the interns this summer were doing it, right?

他们在做研究，对吧？

They were doing research, right?

学了这些东西，但他们是为了构建而学的。

Learning all this stuff, but they were doing it to build.

而且我相信，如果你和Alpha High的高中生聊聊，他们绝对不是那种对未来AI悲观的人。

And I believe just, you know, if you talk to our high school kids at Alpha High, they're definitely not doomers about like AI in the future.

他们会说，你们大人完蛋了。

They're like, you adults are cooked.

我们会来取代你们，而且我们有超能力。

Like, we're coming for you and we have superpowers.

对吧？

Right?

他们确实如此。

And they do.

就像，也就是说，这些孩子——

Like, that is, these kids—

M243:59

他们确实如此。

They really do.

M144:00

不，这些孩子在构建这些应用，我跟你说，两年后，我绝对预期大多数学习软件都会由学生写出来。

No, these kids who are building like these apps, I'm like, you know, my, you know, I'm like, 2 years from now, I absolutely expect most learning software is going to be written by students.

大多数学生会从同龄人编写的学习软件中学习，对吧？

Most students are going to learn from learning software written by their peers, right?

因为它会融入所有学习科学的概念，所有这些，而且他们会让它更有吸引力。

Because it'll embed all the learning science concepts, all these things, and they will make it much more engaging.

M344:22

对。

Yeah.

M144:22

对吧？

Right?

而且我们已经有大量相关数据了。

And we have plenty of data around that already.

特别感谢Austin，他为我们建了AP课程，他建了这个超棒的课程，所有上过我们这门课的孩子AP都考了5分。

Shout out to Austin who built our AP curriculum, and he built this crazy great curriculum, and all our kids who took it got a 5 on their APs.

他做了一个世界历史版的，但他做这个是因为他构建了一个地理猜谜游戏，他把所有世界历史事件拿来，用一个人工智能做了个S级排名，那个AI还挺毒舌的。

And he built a world history one, but he did it because he built this geo-guessing game where he took all these world history events and did an S-tier ranking with a snarky AI.

反正，我就是在随口说这些词，因为我自己都不知道它们到底是什么意思，但每个孩子都特别投入，超级喜欢，而且真的去做了。

Anyway, all these things that I'm throwing those words out because I don't actually know what they really mean, but every kid was like engaged and loved it and did it.

然后我就想，好吧，我和我们这些老一代成年人，永远都做不出来那个东西。

And I'm like, okay, me and the old adult team are never going to be able to build that ever.

所以我觉得，这些孩子将来能做到的是，他们真的会去建设未来。

And so I think that's what these kids are going to be able to do is they're going to go build the future.

而AI给了他们从大学一年级就开始建设未来的能力。

And AI gives them the capability to build the future and start freshman year of college.

M245:09

我试着回答你的问题，Erik。我觉得，‘我该学什么领域，才能确保自己适应未来’，这不是一个正确的问题。

Just to take a stab at your question, Erik, I think the question of what field should I study so that I can be sure that I'm resilient to the future is not the right question.

问题。

Question.

所以问题就是，我对哪个领域感兴趣？

So the question is, what field am I interested in?

M345:23

对。

Yeah.

M245:24

而且我觉得有足够的——我有足够的信心，如果你在任何领域都是AI-native，那都不重要。

And I think there's enough— I have enough faith that if you're AI-native in any field, it does not matter.

你知道，很多人都在担心编程或数学。

You know, a lot of people are concerned about coding or math.

你看，AI-native的数学家们会带来一种全新的编程和数学。

Look, there's going to be a whole new type of coding and math that happens with the AI-native mathematicians.

只是那些老派的、还在用黑板和纸笔的人，就完蛋了。

It's just that the old-school ones who are still doing chalkboard pen and pencil and paper are cooked.

但是那些热爱数学的新一代学生，他们会做得很好。

But the new students who love math, they're going to do just fine.

事实上，他们会去做一些我们从来都认为不可能的事。

In fact, they're going to go and do things none of us ever thought possible.

所以，会有一个全新的数学家时代，他们会非常成功。

And so there's going to be a whole new era of mathematicians that are going to be successful.

而且，顺便说一句，这实际上就是我们HAA非常注重筛选的一点——我们真的不想要那种‘我要确保自己适应未来’的人。

And that's actually, by the way, something that we are trying to screen for a lot at HAA, which is that we really don't want someone who's like, I want to make sure I'm resilient to the future.

这是一种，呃，一种非常防御性的看待世界的方式。

It's, uh, it's a very, uh, defensive way of approaching the world.

我们希望你是进攻型的。

And we want you to be on offense.

我们希望你说，你对什么感兴趣？

We want you to say, what are you interested in?

我会去把它搞清楚的。

I'm going to go figure it out.

你知道，举个例子，我是做教育的。

You know, as an example, I work in education.

教育在过去15、20年里，并不是最赚钱的创始人领域，对吧？

Education has not been the most lucrative founder field of the last 15, 20 years, right?

就像，碰巧我创办了教育领域过去15年里仅有的4个成功案例之一，对吧？

Like, it just so happens that I built one of, like, 4 wins in education in the last 15 years, right?

就像，说真的，这是一个……

Like, literally, it is a.

M146:42

糟糕的市场。

Terrible market.

M246:43

对，它，它一直是个糟糕的市场。

Yeah, it's, it's been historically a terrible market.

我们要改变这一点。

We're going to change that.

M146:46

我们绝对在改变。

We absolutely are changing.

M246:47

嗯，但我依然超级开心和自豪，这就是我所从事的工作。而且我仍然——你知道，我仍然觉得我知道如何以和那些做AI、做SaaS或别的什么的人同等的水平和质量来运作。

Um, but I'm still super happy and proud that this is what I work on, and I still get, you know, I still feel like I know how to operate at the level and quality of someone who's doing something in AI or doing something in SaaS or whatever.

我选择了一个领域，我热爱它，我拥有一个非常健康且充实的生活。

I've chosen a field, I love it, I have a very healthy and fulfilling life.

我不是亿万富翁，但我过得不错。

I'm not a billionaire, but I'm doing well.

而且我认为任何人在任何领域达到那个水平，如果他们处于该领域的前1%，那就没问题。

And I think anyone who gets to that level in any field, if they're in the top 1% of their field, it's going to be fine.

M347:17

是的。

Yeah.

M147:18

我喜欢你说的，因为我也非常相信我们必须做的事情，回到养育孩子的话题，对吧？

And I love what you said, which is I actually believe very much what we have to do with, back to raising kids, right?

并且培养有高尚品格的孩子，面向未来。

And building high character kids for the future.

你的观点是，他们并不是——这不是被动的，对吧？

Your point that they're not — this isn't passive, right?

这又回到了“世界会发生什么，它会强加于我”的被动思维。

This goes back to what is gonna happen to the world and it's gonna be imposed on me.

就像，不对，我们要去创造世界，对吧？

It's like, no, we're gonna go make the world, right?

这些孩子正是创造它的人，对吗？

These kids are the ones who are creating it, right?

你可以，你可以持有被动的观点，看着事情发生，对吧？

And you can, you can have the passive view of what happens, right?

然后哎呀，世界会变糟。

And oops, it's gonna be bad.

或者你可以是另一种，就是，不，我正在建造它，对吗？

Or you can be the other, which is, no, I'm building it, right?

我们需要创造一代建设者，他们乐观地看待这一切，对吧？

And we need to create a generation of builders who look at this optimistically, right?

我们所有的孩子都读过《The Rational Optimist》，对吧？

All our kids read The Rational Optimist, right?

他们坐在那里说，是的，我可以掌控它，对吧？

And they sit there and say, Yes, I'm in control of it, right?

我们需要构建我们的未来，嗯，我们需要养育下一代，让我们的孩子从大学毕业后——我审视这个世界，我想让这下一代从大学出来的人成为那些乐观地掌握AI并说“我们将建设一个了不起的未来”的人，对吧？

And we need to build our future, um, and we need to raise the next generation and have our kids coming out of university sort of, you know, as they— I look at the world and I'm like, I want this next generation coming out of university to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, we're going to build an awesome future, right?

是的。

Yeah.

作为教育者，我们的工作就是去建设那个世界。

That's what our job as educators are, is to go build that world.

嗯，而且，呃，确保我们的大学做到这一点。

Um, and, uh, make sure that our universities do that.

M248:33

Joe，这是一次很棒的对话。

Joe, this was an amazing conversation.

我想我最后想到的一件事是，你实际上正在建造一所创业学校，对吧？

I think the last thing that I'm thinking about is you're actually building an entrepreneurial school, right?

为高中生设立的，叫做"Founder School"。

For high school students called Founder School.

你能告诉我们一些关于你为什么建造它，它是如何运作的，以及为什么你认为这是一个值得借鉴的好模式吗？

Can you tell us a little bit about why you built it, how it, how it works and, and why you think it's a good model for us to be inspired by?

M148:51

当然。

Sure.

我的意思是，回到技能上，你知道，我们的生活技能组合之一就是创业精神和金融素养。

I mean, I, back to skills, you know, one of our, one of our life skill stack is entrepreneurship and financial literacy.

事实上，我们有一个非常强烈的观点：展望未来的工作，《财富》500强公司会因为AI变得更小，但我相信这将导致创业精神的爆发，对吧？

We actually have a very strong point of view of when we look at the jobs of the future, big Fortune 500 comps are going to be smaller because of AI, but I believe it's going to lead to an explosion of entrepreneurship, right?

AI为创业者提供了伟大的机会，但这是我们根本不教的东西，对吧？

AI gives entrepreneurs this great opportunity and it's something we just don't teach, right?

我们就是不教孩子这些。

We just don't teach kids this.

所以我们就教它。

So we teach it.

我们有一套从幼儿园就开始的体系，对吧？

We have a stack starting in kindergarten, right?

我们真的会教每个幼儿园小朋友怎么赚钱、存钱、花钱、投资、捐赠，对吧？

We literally teach every kindergartner how to earn and save, spend, invest, donate, right?

先把基础打起来，对吧？

Get that foundation going, right?

我们有一种叫 Alphas 的货币，用来开始教他们这些。

We have a currency called Alphas to start teaching 'em this.

但回到正题，创业不是，你知道，一道闪电下来它就发生了。

But back to it, entrepreneurship is not, you know, a bolt of lightning and it just happens.

它是一套技能，对吧？

It's a set of skills, right?

是你可以教给别人的。

That you can teach people.

所以，你知道，我们教他们，但到了高中，我们有一个 High School Founders，算是在这方面我们顶级的专业学校。

And so, you know, we teach them, but by the time you get to high school, we have a high school Founders, which is sort of our peak specialized school for that.

这是给那些想把高中时光用来创办企业的孩子的。

This is for kids who wanna spend their high school building businesses.

M349:52

是的。

Yeah.

M149:53

你知道，最疯狂、家长们都不相信的部分是，我们保证你在高中期间会创办一家能赚到100万美元利润的企业，否则我们就全额退还你的学费。

You know, the part that's crazy that parents don't believe, you know, is we guarantee that you'll start a business that will earn $1 million of profit while you're in high school, or we give you all your tuition back.

哦。

Oh.

对吧？

Right?

我们绝对相信这些是可以教出来的技能，对吧？

That we absolutely believe that these are skills that can be taught, right?

而且可以反复、可靠地传授，我甚至可以以此为基础来创办一门生意。

Repeatedly and reliably where I actually can build a business on that.

然后，你知道，它实际上八月份就开学了。

And, you know, so it actually opened in August.

我们其实有来自 Alpha High 的孩子，对吧？

We actually have from Alpha High kids, right?

有些人在过去四年里已经能够创办企业了。

People who've been able to build businesses over the last 4 years.

所以我们有数据点，但现在这是一所专门为此设立的学校。

So we have data point, but this is now a specialized school for that.

而且它是分阶段搭建的。

And it's scaffolded.

他们进来后，必须先赚到100美元，同时要学一套技能，然后是1000美元，然后1万美元、10万美元、100万美元。

They come in and they have to earn $100 and there's a set of skills they have to learn, then $1,000, then $10,000, $100,000, and $1 million.

而这个过程我们才进行了几个月，孩子们已经像速通一样往前冲，我们就在想，好吧，他们第一年就要赚到100万美元了。

And we're only a couple months into the process and kids are speedrunning it and we're like, okay, they're going to earn $1 million in the first year.

我都已经没课可教了，而他们还只是一年级新生。

I'm out of curriculum and they're freshmen.

天哪。

Oh my God.

然后我就想，好吧，孩子们也一副‘好吧，那我之后显然就做一个更大的。’

And I'm like, okay, well, and the kids are like, okay, well, I'm going to then obviously just do a bigger one after that.

但那种‘他们能做到吗’的概念？

But that concept of, can they do this?

你能不能把它建起来？

Can you build it?

而且我相信其中很大一部分就是，有一套围绕它的技能。

And I believe a lot of it is just, there's a set of skills around it.

还有人际关系和社交网络，对吧？

There's also the relationships and networking, right?

而且我认为，我相信你们在大学层面带来的东西之一，也是我们想一直下放到高中层面的，就是社交网络和关系建立。

And I think that's one of the things that I believe that you guys are bringing at the university level that we're trying to even down to the high school level, is just networking, relationship building.

在社交方面，对孩子们来说，我一直觉得斯坦福的魅力之一在于，那些杰出人物会来，然后你见到他们，你会觉得，哦，他们就像普通人一样，对吧？

On the networking side, a lot of it for kids, I always thought a lot of the magic of Stanford was you had all these luminaries come and then you'd meet them and you'd be like, oh, this is like a normal human, right?

M251:37

是的。

Yeah.

M151:37

我的意思是，他们显然非常令人印象深刻，但他们就像普通人一样，这会让你觉得，嗯，我也可以做到。

I mean, they're obviously really impressive, but they're just like a normal human and it makes it accessible to you to be able to say, well, I can do that too.

M351:44

嗯。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

M151:45

尤其是当你年轻、无知又超级自信时，你会觉得，哦，我能做到。

Especially when you're young and dumb and super arrogant, you're like, oh, I could do that.

对吧？

Right?

而这就是其中的一部分。

And that is, that is part of it.

而且，你知道，我们在高中阶段也在做同样的事情，让他们能够建立关系。

And, you know, we're doing the same thing here at the high school level where they're able to build up relationships.

你知道，实际上有个故事是，我们一个14岁的孩子直接打电话给Jensen，对吧？

You know, actually one of the stories is one of our 14-year-olds cold-called Jensen, right?

真的，毫不夸张。

Literally.

而，你知道，他当时在做冷呼叫练习，他真的打给了Jensen，然后Jensen回电话了。

And, you know, he was having a cold call thing and he literally called him and, you know, and Jensen returned the call.

然后发现是个孩子，给了他90秒做推销，最后给了他非常好的反馈，基本上，如果要我总结的话，就是：你问我的那些资格问题，你本可以自己做研究或者问我组织里的其他人，你只是把这次机会用在我身上了。

And realized it's a kid, gave him 90 seconds for his pitch, and then the end gave him really good feedback, which basically, if I had to summarize, was, all these qualification questions you're asking me, you could have done research or asked other people in my organization about it, and you just used your bullet with me.

而你本该做好准备，那样会好得多，对吧？

And you should have done your prep work and it would've been much better, right?

而不是打电话给我浪费掉这次机会。

Instead of wasting it by calling me.

所以，为你的积极进取点赞。

So kudos for aggressiveness.

但你的电话准备只能得F。

But you get an F on call prep.

M252:44

没错。

Yep.

M152:44

好，那通电话，那个孩子，对吧？

Okay, that call, okay, that kid, right?

他在推特上发这个事，对吧？

He's tweeting about it, right?

学校里每个人，都觉得那是那孩子一生中最好的一课。

Everybody in the school, it's like the best learning lesson in that kid's life.

而且，你知道，成年人，对吧？

And, you know, the, you know, adults, right?

成功的成年人愿意投资下一代。

Successful adults are willing to invest in the next generation.

我相信这种社交和关系建立，他们在HA将获得的，将会非常棒，非常棒，而且更有价值，这是普通大学、传统大学做不到的。

And I believe that kind of networking and relationship building that they're going to get at HA is just going to be Awesome, awesome, and more valuable, and what normal universities, traditional universities don't do.

M253:13

是的，这是，你知道，Erik他真的是个专家，如果我自己可以这么说的话。

Yeah, it's something that, you know, Erik is, is a true expert at, if I may say so myself.

而且，呃，你帮助我们调动了这样一个庞大的网络，来自各个领域的出色人士，来帮助，呃，HA的学生，而且，我觉得你在Founders School做的事情真的很酷，因为我确实认识很多人，他们是演讲者或者投入时间在Founders School，对一个高中生或大学生来说，有机会接触到这些，这是完全无价的。

And, uh, you have helped us galvanize this really large network of amazing people from all disciplines, um, to come and help the, the, uh, HA students, like, and I think it's really cool what you're doing with Founders School as well, because I actually know a bunch of people who are speakers or coming in and investing time at Founders School, and it's just completely invaluable for a student who's in high school or college level to have the opportunity to get access to that.

M153:50

是的，不，那对我来说始终是最有价值的东西。

Yeah, no, that is— that back to, for me, that's always, that's the most valuable thing.

而你们有意地将它放在你们所做事情的中心。

And you guys are putting it intentionally at the center of what you guys do.

而那真的很重要。

And I, that's really important.

M354:01

Max Levchin几周前就在这个椅子上，他谈到，嘿，你知道，他之所以被激励去如此大规模、如此有野心地思考，是因为他，你知道，与Elon合作过，与Reid Hoffman、David Sacks合作过，他看到了他们，你知道，经历起起伏伏。

Max Levchin was in this chair a few weeks ago and he was talking about how, hey, you know, he was inspired to think so big and so ambitiously because he, you know, worked with Elon, he worked with Reid Hoffman, with David Sacks, and he saw that they, you know, sort of went through the ups and downs.

他们就像他一样。

They were just like him.

嗯，希望我们能请来Jensen和Sam Altman，还有Satya这些传奇人物，来跟孩子们分享他们的战争故事，分享他们的起起伏伏，这也会提升他们的抱负。

And yeah, hopefully us having, you know, Jensen and Sam Altman and, you know, Satya and all these legends come and share war stories with the kids, share their ups and downs will, uh, also elevate their ambitions as well.

M154:30

确实如此。

It does.

而且他还提到一个观点，你的抱负是在……你知道，对于孩子来说，必须有人……嗯，我记得好像是Tyler Cowen说过，老师能做的最重要的事情就是提升学生对自己的抱负。

And that, the point he also made, which is your ambition is set, you know, when for kids, somebody has to, you know, there's, um, I think it was Tyler Cowen who's like, the number one thing a teacher can do is raise a student's ambition for themselves.

对。

Right.

我们在Alpha试图践行这一点，你知道的。

We try to live that at Alpha, you know, all.

M254:48

那些日子。

The days.

M154:48

而且我相信，当你们坐在这里的时候，这很大程度上是你们有意为之的设计。

And I believe that's very much when you sit here is that it's intentionally in your guys' design.

M354:53

是的。

Yeah.

M154:54

关于你们吸引的人才，你们构建的文化，你们将会提升他们对人生所能达到的抱负。

Of the people you're getting, the culture you're building, that you're going to be raising their ambition for what they can do in life.

而且我认为这非常重要。

And I think that's just so important.

M355:01

是的。

Yeah.

好吧，最后我想说，我们一直在讨论K-12和大学之间的一些主要区别。

Well, lastly, I'll say from my end, you know, we've been talking about some major differences between sort of K-12 and college.

但有一个相似之处是，你提到了1910年。

But one similarity is that, you know, you mentioned 1910.

在过去的100年里，这个模式并没有发生巨大的颠覆。

In the last 100 years, there hasn't been a ton of disruption in the model.

特别是在大学方面，也没有很多重要的新进入者。

There hasn't been a ton of major new entrants, certainly on the college side.

而你们在K-12和大学所做的，以及我们所有人正在做的，都在提升教育可能性的抱负。

And what you guys are doing in K through 12 and college and what we're all doing is elevating the ambition of what's possible in education.

你们是过去几年甚至十多年来这项工作的先驱。

And you guys are pioneers of the work that you've been doing the last few years and decade plus.

所以我很受鼓舞，能成为你们各自旅程的一部分。

So I'm inspired to be part of your respective journeys.

嗯，谢谢。

And yeah, thank you.

M155:36

嗯，孩子们太棒了。

Well, kids are awesome.

他们能做到的，远超我们所有人的预期。

They can do way more than all of us expect.

而且我相信，从你们的学校出来，你们会把这一点提升到新的高度。

And I believe that coming out of yours, you're going to just raise that to the next level.

M255:45

很自豪能这样做。

Proud to do this.

和你们一起。

With y'all.

M355:46

是啊，这是个很好的结束话题。

Yeah, it's a great note to end on.

谢谢。

Thank you.

M456:05

在X上关注我们 @a16z，并订阅我们的Substack at a16z.substack.com。

再次感谢你的收听，我们下期再见。

Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.

提醒一下，这里的内容仅供参考，不应被视为法律、商业、税务或投资建议，也不应用于评估任何投资或证券，并且不针对任何a16z基金的投资者或潜在投资者。

As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only, should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund.

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Please note that a16z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast.

更多详情，包括我们的投资列表链接，请访问 a16z.com/disclosures。

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