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2011年股东大会 · 听巴菲特花十分钟告诉你,为什么买黄金不是好投资

88 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 12:31
M1
M10:00

这个问题来自 Neil Steinhoff。他写道,过去这几年,大宗商品市场,尤其是黄金,涨得非常惊人。

This question comes from Neil Steinhoff, who writes, the commodity market, and particularly gold, have appreciated astronomically over the last few years.

而我的 Berkshire Hathaway 股票,表现只比二零零六年稍微好一点,或者说只比那时候强一点。

My Berkshire Hathaway stock is only slightly better, or doing better, than it was in 2006.

他说,基本上也就是勉强跑赢通胀。

It's barely kept up with inflation, he says.

请解释一下,为什么你没有更大举地投资大宗商品。

Please explain why you have not invested more heavily in commodities.

只要 Ben Bernanke 还在继续印钞,而且看起来短期内也没有要停的迹象,那么大宗商品,尤其是黄金,继续升值,这个判断难道不对吗?

As long as Ben Bernanke continues to print money, and there's no indication that he's going to stop anytime soon, isn't it right that commodities, and particularly gold, will continue to appreciate?
M2
M20:32

嗯,我想指出一点,我们刚开始经营 Berkshire 的时候,它大概相当于四分之三盎司黄金,那时候黄金是每盎司二十美元,而现在是一千五百美元。

Well, I would point out that when we started with Berkshire, it was about 3/4 of an ounce of gold, and gold was $20 an ounce then, and now it was $1,500.

所以就算黄金现在是一千五百美元一盎司,也还是还有上涨空间。

So gold, even at $1,500, has a ways to go.
M3
M30:56

这——

The—.
M2
M20:56

我觉得他说通胀这一点是对的,呃,不过你要这么想,投资大体上有三大类,嗯,在你开始考虑每一类里面具体该选什么之前,你最好先认真想清楚,你到底想待在哪一类里。

I think he's right about inflation, uh, but if you think about it, there are 3 major categories of investment, um, and you ought to think very hard about which category you want to be in before you start thinking about the, the choices available within that category.

第一类,就是任何以货币计价的东西。

Now, the first category is anything denominated in a currency.

可以是债券,可以是银行存款,可以是货币市场基金,也可以是你口袋里的现金。

It can be bonds, it can be deposits in a bank, it can be a money market fund, it can be cash in your pocket.

然后——如果你愿意的话,如果你现在把手伸进口袋——我一般不太喜欢这么做,不过,呃——把你的钱包掏出来。

And the— if you, if you will reach in your pocket— I don't like to do this, but, uh, and pull out your wallet.
M3
M31:40

这可真是——

This is—.
M2
M21:41

你们正在见证一个历史性时刻。

You're watching an historic event.

呃,你看看这个,我顺便说一句,这是一张一美元,Charlie 带的是——这后面写着,In God We Trust,但这其实是虚假宣传。

Uh, if you look at this, and I might point out this is a 1, Charlie carries the— On the back of it, it says, In God We Trust, and that's really false advertising.

如果 Elizabeth Warren 在这儿,她会很恰当地说,这上面应该写的是,In Government We Trust。

If Elizabeth Warren were here, she would say, quite properly, it should say, In Government We Trust.

因为上帝可不会对这张一美元做任何事。你知道,如果政府在维持它的价值这件事上做错了事,让它不像你当初拿它去买债券或者存进银行时那么值钱,那上帝也不会管。

Because God isn't going to do anything about that dollar bill, you know, if government does the wrong things in terms of keeping it as valuable as it was when you parted with it to buy a bond or put it in a bank.

任何跟货币相关的投资,本质上都是在赌政府现在以及未来会怎么做。

Any currency-related investment is a bet on how government now and in the future will behave.
M1
M12:39

对。

Yeah.
M2
M22:40

要是你刚好不走运——或者说有幸——住在 Zimbabwe,然后你决定去做跟货币相关的投资,呃,那你的家人现在可能早就离你而去了。

And if you happen to be unfortunate to live— fortunate to live in Zimbabwe and they— and you decided to make currency-related investments, uh, you know, your family would have left you by now.

那可不是个好决定。

And it was not a good decision.

几乎所有货币,随着时间推移,都会贬值。

Almost all currencies have declined in value over time.

我的意思是,几乎任何经济体系里,可能都天然存在这么一种情况:相比一种会升值的货币,使用一种会贬值的货币,操作起来更容易。

I mean, it may be then built into almost any economic system, that it will be easier to work with a value— a currency that declines in value than a currency that appreciates in value.

Japanese 的经历,可能在这一点上也能再次说明问题。

And the Japanese might reaffirm that here with their experience.

所以,从一个资产类别来看,跟货币相关的投资,不管是在 UK、United States,还是别的地方,除非我们因为持有它们能拿到特别高的回报,否则我们觉得它们没太大意义。

So as a class, currency-related investments, whether they're in the UK or the United States or anyplace else, unless we're getting paid extremely well for having them, we do not think they make much sense.

第二类投资,是你买入一些本身不产生任何东西的东西,但你希望以后会有人愿意出更高的价格从你手里接过去。

The second category of investments regard items that you buy that don't produce anything, but that you hope someone will pay you more for later on.

这里面最典型的例子就是黄金。

And the classic case of that is gold.

我以前举过这个例子,不过如果你把全世界所有的黄金——大家先别太激动——全都堆成一个立方体,它大概会是一个边长六十七英尺的立方体。

And I've used this illustration before, but if you take all of the gold in the world— don't get too excited now— and put it into a cube, it will be a cube that's about 67 feet on a side.

大概会有十六万五千到十七万吨。

It'd be 165,000 or 170,000 metric tons.

所以,如果你拥有全世界所有的黄金,你就会有这么一个边长六十七到六十八英尺的立方体。你可以搬个梯子爬到它顶上,然后你可以说,你看,我正坐在世界之巅,你知道,然后——觉得自己就是世界之王。

So you could have a cube, if you owned all the gold in the world, you could have a cube that would be 67 or 68 feet on a side, and you could get a ladder and you could climb up on top of it and you could say, you know, I'm sitting on top of the world, you know, and— think you're king of the world.

你可以,你知道,你可以拿在手里把玩,可以擦亮它,可以,你可以对它做这些事,盯着它看,但它自己什么也不会做。

You could, you know, you could fondle it, you could polish it, you could, you could do all these things with it, stare at it, but it isn't going to do anything.

对,你买那东西的时候,你唯一在做的,就是希望一年后,或者五年后,会有别人愿意花更多钱,从你手里接过一个——还是那句话——什么也做不了的东西。

Yeah, it's all you are doing when you buy that is that you're hoping that somebody else a year from now or 5 years from now will pay you more to own something that, again, can't do anything.

然后那个人又会觉得,五年之后还会有别人从他手里把这东西买走。

The person then thinks that somebody else will buy something 5 years later from him.

换句话说,你赌的不是人们现在有多害怕纸币,你赌的是,他们觉得一年后的人,会在再过两年之后有多害怕。

In other words, you're betting on not just how scared people are now of paper money, you're betting on how much they think a year from now people will be scared 2 years from then on.

Keynes 以前描述过这一整套东西,嗯,我记得是在《The General Theory》的第十二章里。他讲了一个很有名的选美比赛:这个游戏不是要选出这群人里最漂亮的女人,而是要选出别人会认为最漂亮的那个女人。

Keynes described all of this, uh, I think it was in Chapter 12 of The General Theory when he talked about this famous beauty contest where the game was not to pick out the most beautiful woman among the group, but the one that other people would think was the most beautiful woman.

然后他又把这个推到了第二层、第三层的推理。

And then he carried it on to second and third degrees of reasoning.

任何时候你买入一种自己什么也做不了、也生产不出任何东西的资产,嗯,你其实只是在赌,会不会有别人愿意为这么一个——还是一样,什么也做不了的资产——出更高的价钱。

Anytime you buy an asset that can't do anything, uh, produce anything, you're simply betting on whether somebody else will pay more for, again, an asset that can't do anything.

而且,实际上,我们在白银上也这么干过,不过白银还有工业用途。

And, and actually, we did that with silver, but silver had an industrial use.

大概十三年前吧,我买了非常多的白银。

And we— about 13 years ago, I bought a whole lot of silver.

如果你注意看的话,白银最近涨了不少。

And if you'll notice, silver's moved recently.

所以你知道,我——我的时机只不过差了大概十三年,不过你知道,也算是完美了。

So I, you know, I— my timing was only about 13 years off, but, you know, it was perfect.

呃,第三类资产,是那种你会根据它——根据它——将来能产出什么、能给你带来什么来估值的东西。

The, uh, the third category of asset is something that you value based on its— on its— what it will produce, what it will deliver.

你买一个农场,是因为你预期它能产出一定数量的玉米、大豆、棉花,或者别的什么。

You buy a farm because you expect a certain amount of corn or soybeans or cotton or whatever it may be.

每年都会进到你手里。

To be— to come your way every year.

然后你根据自己认为这项资产随着时间推移到底能产出多少,来决定你愿意付多少钱。

And you decide how much you pay based on how much you think the asset itself will deliver over time.

这类资产,才是我和 Charlie 喜欢的。

And those are the assets that appeal to me and Charlie.

这里面还有一个顺理成章的延伸。

Now, there's some logical follow-on to that.

如果你买下那个农场,而且你真的认真去想:它能产多少蒲式耳的玉米,多少蒲式耳的大豆,我得付给佃农多少钱,要交多少税,等等这些,你就能做出一个理性的计算。而这笔投资成不成功,在你自己心里,取决于它最后交出来的结果,是否符合你原本的预期。

If you buy that farm and you really think about how many bushels of corn, how many bushels of soybeans will it produce, how much do I have to pay the tenant farmer, how much do I have to pay in taxes, and so on, you can make a rational calculation, and the success of that investment will be determined in your own mind by whether it meets your expectations as to what it delivers.

照逻辑来说,你根本不该在乎这个农场第二天、一周后、一个月后,或者一年后,有没有人给它报个价。

Logically, you should not care whether you get a quote on that farm a day later, or a week later, or a month later, or a year later.

我们看企业也是一样。

We feel the same way about businesses.

当我们买 Iscar,或者买 Lubrizol 之类的公司时,我们不会每个星期到处去打听它的报价,然后说,你知道,它是涨了还是跌了,或者类似这种事。

When we buy Iscar, or we buy Lubrizol or whatever, we don't run around getting a quote on it every week and say, you know, is it up or down or anything like that?

我们看的是这个企业本身。

We look to the business.

我们看证券也是同样的道理。

We feel the same way about securities.

当我们买入一种可交易证券时,就算证券交易所关门关上几年,我们也不在乎。

When we buy a marketable security, we don't care if the stock exchange closes for a few years.

所以当我们看 Berkshire 的时候,我们看的是,我们拥有的这些生产性资产将来能产出什么,以及我们怎么运用这些资本去收购更多生产性资产。

So when we look at Berkshire, we are looking at what we think can be delivered from the productive assets that we own and how we can utilize that capital in acquiring more productive assets.

当然,有些时候——你知道,棉花价格翻了一倍,这让我们在 Fruit of the Loom 那边很头疼。

And there will be times, you know, cotton doubled in price, much to our chagrin at Fruit of the Loom.

但是,你知道,如果过去一年里你在对的那六到八个月持有棉花,你的本金差不多就翻倍了。

But, you know, if you owned cotton for the right 6 or 8 months in the past year, you came close to doubling your money.

但如果你把时间拉回到一整个世纪,看看长期持有棉花能不能赚钱,那它并不是一项很好的投资。

But if you go back a century and try to make money owning cotton over time, it has not been a very good investment.

所以,随便挑一种商品——原油、棉花,嗯,黄金、白银,嗯,任何这类东西——当然,棉花是有实用价值的。

So, to pick a product— crude oil, cotton, uh, gold, silver, uh, anything that— and of course cotton has utility.

黄金其实并没有什么实用价值。

Gold really doesn't have utility.

嗯,我会,我会押注那些优秀的、能持续创造产出的企业,它们会跑赢那种什么都不干的东西。

Uh, I would, I would bet on good producing businesses, uh, to outperform something that doesn't do anything.

不管拉长到多长一段时间,都是这样。

Over any period of time.

但是,价格上涨这件事本身,毫无疑问会制造出一种兴奋感。

But there's no question that rising prices create their own excitement.

所以当人们看到黄金涨了很多——我是说,如果你邻居持有一些黄金,而你觉得自己比他聪明,可你自己一点都没买,你太太还对你说,你说,你说,为什么隔壁那个笨蛋都赚钱了,而你就坐在这儿什么也不干?

So when people see gold go up a lot— I mean, if your neighbor owns some gold and you think you're smarter than he is and you didn't own any, and your wife says to you, you know, you know, how come that jerk next door is making money, you know, and you're just sitting here?

嗯,这,这就会开始影响人的行为,人们也喜欢去参与那些价格一直在涨的东西,诸如此类。

Uh, it, it can start affecting behavior, and people like to get in on things that have been rising in price and all of that.

但是从长期来看,那并不是致富的办法。

But over time, that has not been the way to get rich.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M39:33

嗯,我当然同意这一点。

Well, I certainly agree with that.

而且,去买一种只有在整个世界真的糟到不行时才会真正上涨的资产,这本身就有点奇怪。

And besides, it's something peculiar to buy an asset which only will really go up if the world really goes to hell.

在我看来,这并不是一件特别理性的事。

It doesn't strike me as a terribly rational thing to do.

我觉得,如果你真打算哪天要逃离这个国家,因为这个国家会要了你的命,而且你还假设你可能去的其他国家也都会彻底乱套,那我觉得这样的人确实应该买一点黄金。

I think if you ever figure on leaving the country because the country is going to kill you, and if you assume all the other countries you might go to will also be thoroughly screwed up, I think all those people should buy a little gold.

但我觉得,我们其他人持有 Berkshire Hathaway 的股票会更好。

But I think the rest of us would be better off with Berkshire Hathaway stock.

当然了,还有另一类人,他们觉得可以买那些 soup cans 的画来保护自己。

And of course, there's another class of people that think they can protect themselves by buying paintings of soup cans.

这个我也不推荐。

I don't recommend that either.
M2
M210:32

关于黄金还有一点,就是除了这个六十七英尺见方的大立方体之外,每年还会有更多黄金被生产出来。

One thing about gold also is that in addition to this 67-foot cube, more gold is being produced every year.

所以你不仅得有买家去对冲掉卖家,嗯,在正常情况下的卖盘,你还得吸收大概一千亿美元这种毫无用途的新增加的东西。

So you have to have buyers not only to offset sellers, uh, in the natural course of events, but you have to absorb something like $100 billion worth of added items of no utility.

我是说,这事真的很有意思。

I mean, it's really interesting.

我是说,他们把它从 South Africa 的地下挖出来,运到 New York 的 Federal Reserve,然后再把它放回地下。

I mean, they dig it up out of the ground in South Africa, and they ship it to the Federal Reserve in New York, and they put it back in the ground.

我是说,如果你从 Mars 上看这件事,你知道,你可能会觉得这有点奇怪,不过你想想它让多少人感到开心。

I mean, if you were watching this from Mars, you know, you might think it was a little peculiar, but think of how many people it makes happy, you know.

我顺便提一下,按一千五百多美元的价格来算,那个立方体的价值,也就是全世界所有黄金的价值,现在大概是八万亿美元;而 United States 大约有十亿英亩农田。

I might mention that the value of that cube, all the gold in the world, is now valued at about $8 trillion, at $1,500-plus, and there are a billion acres roughly of farmland in the United States.

那相当于一百五十多万平方英里,价值大概是两万多亿美元。

That's a little over 1.5 million square miles, and that's valued at something over $2 trillion.

如果你再加上十个 ExxonMobil,可能又是大约四万亿美元,甚至可能还不到那么多。

And if you take 10 ExxonMobils, you get up maybe another $4 trillion, and maybe not that much even.

所以,你可以买下 United States 全部的农田,一英亩不落,还可以买下十个 ExxonMobil,而且口袋里还能剩下一万亿美元左右,当零花钱随身带着。

And so you could own all of the farmland in the United States, every bit of it, and you could own 10 ExxonMobils, and you get to stick a trillion or so in your pocket for walking-around money.

你可以在这些和这个六十七英尺见方、可以让你摸来摸去的黄金立方体之间做选择。

And you could have your choice of that or this 67-foot cube of gold that you could fondle.

对有些人来说,这好像是个很接近的选择,但对我来说不是。

And that may seem like a close choice to some people, but not to me.
M3
M312:22

嗯,而且你还得有一支军队来保卫这些黄金。

Well, you would also need an army to defend the gold.

这真不是一种很好的资产。

It's really not a very good asset.
M2
M212:30

好,第六个问题。

Okay, number 6.