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1998年股东大会 · 巴菲特:股市波动越大,赚钱的机会就越大

47 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:20
F1
F10:00

下午好,Buffett 先生,Munger 先生。

Good afternoon, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger.

我叫 Keiko Michalak,是 Wharton 的 MBA 学生,不过还请别因此对我有成见。

My name is Keiko Michalak, and I'm an MBA student at Wharton, but please don't hold that against me.
M1
M10:09

我们不会的。

We won't.

我可没读到那么高。

I never made it that far.

我只是本科生。

I was an undergraduate student.
F1
F10:15

您能不能解释一下,在现金流估值的过程中,既然您对不同公司用的是同样的贴现率,那您是怎么区分不同类型企业的?

Could you please explain how you differentiate between types of businesses in your cash flow valuation process, given that you use the same discount rate across companies?

比如说,在给 Coke 和 GEICO 估值的时候,您怎么考虑它们现金流风险高低的差别?

For example, in valuing Coke and GEICO, how do you account for the difference in the riskiness of their cash flows?
M1
M10:38

我们并不按传统那一套去担心风险——其实就是你们在 Wharton 学到的那种方式。

We don't worry about risk in the traditional— the way you're taught, actually, at Wharton.

不过——这确实是个好问题,真的。

We— but it's a good question, believe me.

但我们的看法是——如果我们能完美地看清每一家企业的未来,那钱到底是靠运营 streetcars 赚来的,还是靠卖 software 赚来的,其实都没区别,因为所有流出来的现金——而这正是我们从现在到 Judgment Day 之间唯一在衡量的东西——对我们来说花起来都是一样的。

But what we're— if we could see the future of every business perfectly, it wouldn't make any difference whether the money came from running streetcars or from selling software, because all the cash that came out, which is all we're measuring between now and Judgment Day, would spend the same to us.

说到底——这些钱是在哪个行业里赚出来的,本身没什么意义,除非这个行业能告诉你一些关于企业产生现金能力的信息。

It really— the industry that it's earned in means nothing except to the extent that it may tell you something about the ability to develop the cash.
M2
M21:22

对。

Right.
M1
M11:22

但它并不能说明——一旦这些现金已经可以分配了,它本身的质量并不会因为来自哪个行业而有什么不同。

But it doesn't tell you— it has no meaning on the quality of the cash once it becomes distributable.

我们看待风险,本质上更像是把它当成一个——怎么说,就是一个“做还是不做”的阀门,来决定我们要不要去看一家企业的未来。

We look at riskiness essentially as being sort of a no— a go/no-go valve in terms of looking at the future of businesses.

换句话说,如果我们觉得自己根本不知道未来会发生什么,那并不一定意味着这件事本身风险高。

In other words, if we think we simply don't know what's going to happen in the future, that doesn't mean it's necessarily risky.

只是说明我们不知道而已。

It just means we don't know.

这意味着,对我们来说它是有风险的。

It means it's risky for us.

但对另一个真正懂这门生意的人来说,它未必有风险。

It might not be risky for someone else who understands the business.

那种情况下,我们就直接放弃。

In that case, we just give up.

我们不会硬去预测那些事情。

We don't try to predict those things.

而且我们不会说,哦,我们不知道接下来会怎样,所以就把贴现率从百分之七调到百分之九,随便弄个我们自己其实也说不清的数字。

And we, we don't say, well, we don't know what's going to happen, so therefore we'll discount it at 9% instead of 7%, some number that we don't even know.

那不是我们处理问题的方法。

That is not our way to approach it.

我们的看法是,一旦一个项目通过了某个门槛测试,也就是我们对它相当有把握,那基本上同一个贴现因子就适用于所有这类东西。

We feel that once it passed a threshold test of being something about which we feel quite certain, that the same discount factor tends to apply to everything.

而且我们在买入一家企业的时候,只尽量去做那些我们非常有把握的事情。

And we try to do only things about which we're quite certain when we buy into the businesses.

所以,我们认为像资本资产定价模型那一类的思路——什么不同风险对应不同风险调整后回报率之类的——我们倾向于认为它是——其实也不是“倾向于”,我们就是认为那是胡扯。

So, we think all the capital asset pricing model type reasoning with different rates of risk-adjusted return and all that, we tend to think it is— well, we don't tend to, we think it is nonsense.

不过我们也认为,去介入那种局面,或者试图评估那种我们对未来会是什么样子根本谈不上有任何信念的局面,同样也是胡扯。

And, but we do think it's also nonsense to get into situations or to try and evaluate situations where we don't have any conviction to speak of as to what the future is going to look like.

我们也不认为,你可以靠提高贴现率来弥补这一点,然后说因为它风险更高,所以我既然真不知道会发生什么,就用一个更高的贴现率。

And we don't think you can compensate for that by having a higher discount rate and saying it's riskier, so that I don't really know what's going to happen, I'll have a higher discount rate.

那——那根本不是我们看问题的方式。

That, that just is not our way of approaching things.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M23:10

对,公司金融里老是把波动性看得特别重要,我们就觉得这完全是胡扯。

Yeah, this great emphasis on volatility in corporate finance, we just regard it as nonsense.

这么说吧,只要胜算在我们这边,而且我们不是把整个公司押在一次下注上,或者接近那种程度,我们并不在乎业绩结果的波动。

Just put it this way: as long as the odds are in our favor and we're not risking the whole company on one throw or anything close to it, we don't mind volatility in results.

我们要的是胜算对我们有利。

What we want is the favorable odds.

我们认为,随着时间过去,这种波动在 Berkshire 自然会被消化掉。

We figure the volatility over time will take care of itself at Berkshire.
M1
M13:42

如果有一门生意,我们对它最终的经营结果非常非常有把握,那我们反而更希望它高波动,而不是低波动。

If we have a business about which we're extremely confident as to the business result, we would prefer that it have high volatility than low volatility.

对于那种我们知道最终结局会怎样的生意,如果它价格老是大起大落,我们反而能从中赚到更多钱。

We will make more money out of a business where we know where the endgame is going to be if it bounces around a lot.

我是说,举个例子,如果人们会对 Sears 的月度盈利做出反应,而它一年里可能有八个月都在亏钱,却在十一月和十二月赚得盆满钵满。

I mean, for example, if people reacted to the monthly earnings of Sears, which might lose money 8 months out of the year and makes a fortune, you know, in November and December.

如果人们真会那样反应,因此让它作为一家独立公司的股票波动得非常厉害,那对我们来说就太好了,因为我们知道那全是噪音,我们会在七月买进,到一月卖出。

If people reacted to that and therefore made its stock as an independent company very volatile, that would be terrific for us because we would know it was all nonsense and we would buy in July and sell in January.

当然,事情显然不会那样发展,但当我们看到一门生意我们非常确定,可全世界却觉得它的前景一会上去一会下来,因此它的股价波动非常大,你知道,我们就太喜欢了。

Well, obviously things don't behave that way, but when we see a business about which we're very certain but the world thinks that its fortunes are going up and down and therefore it behaves with great volatility, you know, we love it.

这可比什么较低的 beta 好太多了。

That's way better than having a lower beta.

所以我们觉得,别人所谓的风险,其实正是我们更愿意要的东西。

So we think that we actually would prefer what other people would call risk.

比如说,我们当年买 Washington Post 的时候,我以前也举过这个例子,它在短短几个月里跌了百分之五十。

When they— when we bought the Washington Post, I've used that as, you know, it went down 50% in a matter of a few months.

这简直是可能发生的最好情况。

Best thing that could have happened.

我的意思是,这种事再好也不过了。

I mean, that doesn't get any better than that.

它的生意本质上其实是非常不波动的。

Business was fundamentally very nonvolatile in nature.

我的意思是,电视台,再加上一份强势、占主导地位的报纸,这本来就是一种不怎么波动的生意,但它的股票却很波动。

I mean, TV stations and, and a strong dominant newspaper, that's a nonvolatile business, but it was a volatile stock.

而你知道,从我们的角度看,这就是绝佳的组合。

And, you know, that is a great combination from our standpoint.
M2
M25:20

第八区。

Area 8.