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为什么你不用为技术进步带来的大面积失业而担心

47 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:36
F1
F10:00

嗨,Warren。

Hi, Warren.

嗨,Charlie。

Hi, Charlie.

我叫 Carrie,这是我女儿 Chloe。

My name is Carrie, and this is my daughter Chloe.

她十一周大。

She's 11 weeks.

这是她第一次来参加 Berkshire 的股东大会。

It's her very first Berkshire meeting.

我们来自 San Francisco,我们有个关于就业的问题想请教你。

We're from San Francisco, and we have a question on employment for you.
F2
F20:16

作为一个大型雇主,同时也是消费品生产商,你怎么看自动化兴起之下,优质全职工作的前景充满不确定性这件事?嗯,如果我们两百年前问这个问题,呃,然后有人说,随着农用机械、拖拉机、联合收割机之类的发展,农场上百分之九十的人都要失去工作,那看起来会很可怕,对吧?

As both a major employer and a producer of consumer goods, what do you make of the uncertain outlook for good full-time jobs with the rise of automation? Well, if we'd asked that question 200 years ago, uh, and somebody said, with the outlook for development of farm machinery and tractors and combines and so on, meaning that 90% of the people on farms were going to lose their job, it would look terrible, wouldn't it?

但是我们的经济、我们的人民、我们的制度,在实现今天这一切这件事上,一直都表现得极其有创造力。我们现在有一亿六千万个工作岗位,可从一七七六年以来的整个过程中,我们一直都在想办法消灭工作。

But our economy and our people, our system, has been remarkably ingenious in achieving whatever we have now, 160 million jobs, when throughout the period ever since 1776, we've been figuring out ways to get rid of jobs.

这就是资本主义的运作方式,它让每个人能生产出越来越多的商品,而这些新工作到底会从哪里冒出来,我们事先永远说不准。

That's what capitalism does, and it produces more and more goods per person, and we never know exactly where they're going to come from.

我的意思是,嗯,如果你当年做的是客运铁路生意,那你也知道,那肯定是要变的。

I mean, well, if you were in the passenger train business, I mean, you know, that was going to change.

但在这个经济体里,我们总能找到办法雇用越来越多的人。现在就业人数比这个国家历史上任何时候都多,尽管一家公司接一家公司,尤其是重工业和类似行业,一直都在很自然地琢磨怎么让生产率持续提高。那就意味着,要么用更少的人生产出同样数量的商品,要么用同样的人生产出更多商品。

But we find ways in this economy to employ more and more people, and we've got now more people employed than ever in the history of the country, even though company after company, and particularly in heavy industry and that sort of thing, has been trying to figure out naturally how to get more productive all the time, which means turning out the same number of goods with fewer people or turning out more goods with the same number.

这就是资本主义。

That is capitalism.

我不觉得你需要担心 American 的创造力会枯竭。

I don't think you need to worry about American ingenuity running out.

我的意思是,你看看各行各业的人,他们当然喜欢赚钱,但他们其实也非常喜欢发明创造。

I mean, you look at people in all kinds of businesses, and they like to make money, but they really like to be inventive.

他们喜欢做事情。

They like to do things.

这个经济体,它是有效的。

This economy, it works.

它会继续有效,而且会非常——它确实会很艰难。

It will continue to work, and it will be very— it's very tough.

在某些行业里,确实会有阵痛和错位。

In certain industries, and there will be dislocations.

汽车出现以后,我们当然不会再做那么多马蹄铁之类的东西了,但我们现在还是能找到办法,让现在这一亿五千五百万——不管具体是多少——人都有工作,并支撑起三亿三千万人口。

We won't be making as many horseshoes and that sort of thing when cars come along and all that, but we do find ways now to employ whatever we're employing, 155, whatever it is, million people, and supporting a population of 330 million people.

而我们刚开始的时候,全国只有四百万人口,其中百分之八十的劳动力都在农场干活。

When we started with 4 million people, with 80% of the labor being employed on farms.

所以这个制度是有效的,而且会继续有效。

So this system works, and it will continue to work.

至于下一个大机会会是什么,我,我不知道。

And I, I don't know what the next big thing will be.

但我知道,一定会有下一个大机会。

I do know there will be a next big thing.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M1
M13:24

嗯,我们想尽可能把那些脏活累活转给机器人去做。

Well, we want to shift the scut work to the robots to the extent we can.

就像 Warren 说的,这一直就是我们在做的事。

That's what we've been doing, as Warren said.

两百年来都是这样。

For 200 years.

没人想回到去当铁匠,或者沿着街边一路铲、一路捡马粪,或者去干以前人们干的那些鬼活。

Nobody wants to go back to being a blacksmith or scooping along the street, picking up the horse manure, or whatever the hell people used to do.

那些工作被淘汰掉,我们其实挺高兴的。

We're glad to have that work eliminated.

而且,很多对未来的担忧,来自那些左派人士;他们特别担心的是,经济金字塔底层的人只是稍微改善了一点点,而顶层的人却跑得更快。

And a lot of this worry about the future comes from leftists who worry terribly that the people at the bottom of the economic pyramid have had a little stretch when the people at the top got ahead faster.

那是个意外,因为我们当时处境太糟了,只能向全世界大量放水,把利率压到零。

That happened by accident because we were in so much trouble that we had to flood the world with money and drive interest rates down to zero.

当然,这就把资产价格推高了,也帮到了富人。

And of course, that drove asset prices up and helped the rich.

没人那么做是因为突然爱上了富人。

Nobody did that because they suddenly loved the rich.

那只是个意外,而且很快就会过去。

It was just an accident, and it will soon pass.
F2
F24:20

我们当然希望看到这些生产率的提升,而且也不该因为 Charlie 和我当年在杂货店干过活这件事,就有点担心。那时候别人订一罐豌豆,我们得爬梯子去够那罐豌豆,然后把它放进一个可折叠的箱子里,再把它装上卡车。

We want to have all this productivity improvement, and we shouldn't worry a little about the fact that Charlie and I, we worked in a grocery store, and when people ordered a can of peas, we had ladders that we climbed up to reach the can of peas, and then we placed it in a folding box, and then we put it on a truck.

如果你看看,从生产者到最终吃到东西的人之间,真正被转运的食物有多少,再看看这笔交易里牵涉了多少人,你就会知道,我也说不好是三分之一、四分之一,还是五分之一,反正那时候的效率,只有现在把食物送到你手上的最佳方式的那么一点。

And if you looked at the amount of food actually transferred between the producer and the person who consumed it, and the number of people involved in the transaction, you know, it was—I don't know whether it was 1/3 or 1/4 or 1/5 as efficient as the best way now to get food delivered to you.

而且那时候的食物还更差。

And the food was worse.

我爷爷当时还会,你知道,对这种赊账加送货的店会被淘汰这件事感到很难过,而它也确实被淘汰了。

And my grandfather would, you know, was distressed about the fact that this particular credit and delivery kind of store would be eliminated, and it was eliminated.

但社会就是会进步。

But society progresses.

现在又回来了。

It's coming back.
M1
M15:21

什么?

Pardon?

现在又回来了。

It's coming back.
F2
F25:23

是又回来了,但效率更高了。

It's coming back, but more efficiently.
M1
M15:24

对,对,对。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
F2
F25:27

总之,我们已经见过一点创造性破坏了。坦白说,我们还挺高兴它把我们解放出来,让我们能进入投资行业。

Anyway, we've seen a little creative destruction, and frankly, we're glad that it freed us up to go into the investment business.

对我们来说,结果更好。

It worked out better for us.

Becky?

Becky?