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2007年股东大会 · 巴菲特:当市场出现恐慌时,通常我们能赚不少钱

43 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:37
M1
M10:02

David Winters,来自 New Jersey 的 Mountain Lakes。

David Winters, Mountain Lakes, New Jersey.

你能不能解释一下,你认为信贷收缩会对 Berkshire Hathaway 带来什么影响,最好是有什么好处?另外利率上升又会有什么影响?

Could you please explain what you believe the impact and hopefully benefit of a credit contraction would be on Berkshire Hathaway and maybe higher interest rates as well?
M2
M20:25

嗯,别人遭殃的时候,我们确实会受益。

Well, we do benefit when others suffer.

这不是说我们喜欢别人受苦,不过金融市场一旦出现混乱,像二零零二年 junk bonds 的那种情况,或者你知道的,一九七四年股票市场的那种情况。

That doesn't mean we enjoy their suffering, but times of chaos in financial markets, the situation that existed in junk bonds in 2002, the situation that existed in equities, you know, back in 1974.

所以我不觉得你一定会看到信贷收缩。

So I don't think you'll necessarily see a contraction in credit.

那个,呃,我觉得大多数主管当局都非常不愿意真的去踩刹车。

That, uh, I think most authorities are very reluctant to really step on the brakes.

呃,因为你知道,谁踩了刹车,实在是太容易被看出来了。

Uh, you know, it's too easy to figure out who did step on the brakes.

但是你很可能会看到某种外生事件,在市场里开始自我强化、越滚越大。

But you could very well see some exogenous event that starts feeding on itself in markets.

事实上,我觉得现在这种情况比过去大多数时期都更容易在市场里自我强化。

In fact, I think it's much more prone to feed on itself in markets than in most periods in the past.

呃,如果你真的让整个系统受到一次冲击的话。

Uh, if you, if you really got a shock to the system.

那就会导致信用利差大幅拉宽、股票价格变便宜,以及各种各样的情况。而这些其实都对 Berkshire 有帮助,因为在那种时候,我们通常手头至少还有一些钱可以做点事情。

And that would result in a huge widening of credit spreads, cheaper equity prices, all kinds of things that, uh, that actually are helpful to Berkshire because we usually have, uh, at least some money around to do something, uh, at times like that.

这样的时期总会出现的。

There will be periods like that.

呃,如果你往前看三四十年,那时候一旦信贷收缩,就是真的借不到钱。

Uh, if you go back 30 or 40 years when credit contracted, it just really wasn't available.

Charlie 和我都经历过好几次那样的时期。

Charlie and I went through a couple periods like that.

大概四十年前,我们想买 Chicago 的一家银行,那时候全世界唯一愿意借钱给我们的人——因为银行当时不给收购提供贷款——是我们在 Kuwait 找到的一些人,他们说可以借给我们 dinar。

We were trying to buy a bank in Chicago 40 or so years ago, and the only people that would lend to us in the world— because banks weren't lending for acquisitions— we found some people over in Kuwait who said they'd lend it to us in dinars.

我们当时想,借这个钱也许是没问题,可等到还钱的时候,这个 dinar 到底值多少钱,可能就得由他们说了算。

And we thought, you know, it might be fine to borrow it, but when it came time to pay them back the dinars, they would probably be telling us what the dinar was worth.

所以我们——就放弃了那笔交易。

So we— passed on that particular deal.

我的意思是,那时候你碰到的是真正的信贷收缩。

I mean, you had real credit contractions then.

当然,Federal Reserve 之所以成立,虽然不能说是唯一原因,但我会说最主要的原因,就是当年那种严重的信贷收缩,尤其是在像美国中西部这样的地方,感受特别明显,因为那里依赖大城市里的 correspondent banks。

And of course, the whole reason— not— I would say the major reason the Federal Reserve was established was the huge contractions in credit that were, were felt, particularly here in places like the Midwest, where they were dependent on correspondent banks in, in, in the larger cities.

而当那些银行出了问题,这边的银行就会被直接断掉资金来源,所以我们当时确实需要一个制度,除非是有意为之,否则不能让这种事发生。

And when those banks had problems, these— the banks here got shut off, and we really needed a system that, that would not have that happen except by design.

所以我会说,Fed 按它的设计来看,大概是不会主动制造什么 credit crunch——也就是信贷紧缩的。

And I would say the Fed, by design, is, is probably not going to produce any credit crunch— credit crunches.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M32:58

嗯,我们上一次碰到那种信贷收缩的时候,我们很快赚了多少来着,三十亿还是四十亿美元?

Well, the last time we had that credit contraction, we made, what, a quick $3 or $4 billion?

而且我们当时行动得非常果断。

And we were acting with vigor.

整个投资世界的竞争越来越激烈了,呃,但如果你说的是真正那种把整个文明运转都给卡住的信贷收缩,那谁都不会欢迎。

The whole investment world is more and more competitive, and, uh, and if you talk about a real credit contraction which gums up the whole civilization, no one would welcome that.

而且我预测,如果我们在像现在这种充满过度扩张、引发大量嫉妒和怨气的时期之后,真的再来一次很大的信贷收缩,那么最后出台的立法,恐怕我们大多数人都不会喜欢。

And I would predict that if we ever had a really big credit contraction after a period like the one we're in with all this excess, which is causing so much envy and resentment, uh, that we would get legislation that most of us wouldn't like.
M2
M23:44

对,Jonathan Alter 大概一年前出过一本书,讲的是 Roosevelt 上台之后最初的一百天。

Yeah, there's a book by Jonathan Alter that came out about a year ago that talks about the first 100 days, uh, after Roosevelt took over.

而且因为这本书本身的写法,它也讲到在那之前的一些日子。

And, and then by the nature of the book, it tells about some of the days before that too.

不过,呃,如果你想看一个例子——我的意思是,那个时候这个国家已经快到悬崖边上了,基本上 Roosevelt 想通过什么法案,最初只要他们来得及把法案写出来,就几乎都能立刻通过。

But, uh, if you want to get an example of— I mean, this country was close to the brink at that point, and basically Roosevelt got anything passed he wanted just as fast as they could write the bills there initially.

而且那在当时是件好事,呃,你知道的,那时候银行关门,人们用代用券交易,诸如此类。

And that was a good thing, uh, you know, with banks closing and people dealing in scrip and that sort of thing.

所以没有人希望那种情况再回来。

So nobody wants that to come back.

而且,自从 Great Depression 以来,呃,我们对这类事情已经学到了更多。

And we've learned a lot more about that sort of thing, uh, since the Great Depression.

我觉得你不会看到那种有组织、有协调的信贷收缩。

I don't think you'll see an orchestrated credit contraction.

不过,一九九八年秋天,Long-Term Capital Management 出了问题的时候,信贷市场确实一度卡住了。

Now, you had in 1998, in the fall, when Long-Term Capital Management got in trouble, you had a seize-up of the credit markets.

但那不是——那不是那种由 Fed 主导、有意推动的收缩。

It wasn't that—it wasn't an orchestrated-by-the-Fed-type contraction.

那只是人们陷入了恐慌,连最——甚至最安全的工具都开始害怕,信贷利差也出现了以前从来没出现过的变化。

You simply had people panicked about even the most—even the safest of instruments, and credit spreads doing things that they'd never done before.

这其实是个挺有意思的例子,因为那不是一百年前的事,而是还不到十年前。

And that's rather an interesting example because that was not 100 years ago, it was less than 10 years ago.

当时 Wall Street 有各种高 IQ 的人,也有各种手里有现金可用的人,但信贷市场还是发生了一些非常、非常不同寻常的事,原因很简单,就是人们恐慌了,而且他们觉得别人也会恐慌。

You had all kinds of people with high IQs in Wall Street, you had all kinds of people with cash available, and you had some really, really extraordinary things happen in credit markets simply because people panicked, and they felt other people were going to panic.

于是市场里就会出现这种第二层、第三层的连锁反应。

And you get these second- and third-degree-type reactions in markets.

这种事情我们以后还会再看到。

We will see that sort of thing again.

不会是完全一样的,但你知道,就像 Mark Twain 说的,历史不会简单重复,但会押韵。

It won't be the same, but, you know, as Mark Twain said, you know, history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

所以我们还会遇到某种和一九九八年相似、会“押韵”的情况。

And we will have something that rhymes with 1998.

第六个。

Number 6.