M21:18
对，我们其实已经连续好几年都在告诉大家了，在这里大概一年前左右发生那次会计变更之前，我们就一直告诉你们，不应该把 goodwill amortization 算进去。
Yeah, we regularly told you for some years before the accounting change was made here a year or so ago, we told you you should not count goodwill amortization.
你知道，GAAP 当时要求这么做，我们当然也照着 GAAP 执行了；但我几乎记得每一年，我们都会告诉你们，这其实并不是真正的经济性支出，所以在我们自己计算 earnings、以及判断我们愿意为一家企业付多少钱的时候，我们都会把它忽略掉。
You know, it was required under GAAP, and we obviously complied with GAAP, but we told you every year virtually that I can remember, we said this is not really an economic expense, and we ignore it in our own calculations of earnings in terms of what we will pay for businesses.
我们不在乎有没有 goodwill 这个项目，因为从经济现实来看，它并不重要。
We don't care whether there's a goodwill item or not because it's immaterial to economic reality.
所以在 Berkshire，我们一直很愿意告诉自己的股东，把某些东西忽略掉。
So we have been quite willing at Berkshire to tell our own owners to ignore certain things.
如果他们不同意我们，也可以去看 GAAP 数据；但我们觉得，只看 intangible assets 的 amortization，会让人产生误导。
And if they disagreed with us, they could look at the GAAP figures, but we felt they were getting misled by looking at the amortization of intangibles.
这并不是说我们认为所有 intangibles 都是好的，而是我们确实觉得，那是一种武断的处理方式，根本说不通。
That doesn't mean we think all intangibles were good, but we did feel that that was an arbitrary decision that didn't make any sense at all.
而且很明显，正如我们一直讨论过的那样，我们认为那些荒唐的 pension 假设，在很多情况下让人们记出了根本不存在的 earnings。
And we've felt, obviously, as we've talked about, we've felt the crazy pension assumptions have caused people to record phantom earnings in many cases.
所以当我们认为，在经济分析里，有些数据比 GAAP 数字更重要的时候，我们愿意直接告诉你们。
So we're willing to tell you when we think there is data that is more important in economic analysis than GAAP figures.
我们会跟你们讲。
We'll talk to you about it.
但是，不把 depreciation 当成费用，在我们看来，绝对是疯了。
Not thinking of depreciation as an expense, though, strikes us as absolutely crazy.
我能想到的这种企业非常少——也许有那么一两家，但真的非常少——在那里面，depreciation 不是真实费用。
I can think of very few businesses—I can think of a couple, but I can think of very few businesses where depreciation is not a real expense.
即便是我们的 gas pipelines，也是一样。我的意思是，到了某个时候，它们——第一，需要维修；但除此之外，再往后，总有一天它们也会过时。
Even on our gas pipelines, I mean, you know, at some point they are—A, they will need repairs, but beyond that, at some point they become obsolete.
我是说，二百年之后，那儿不可能还会有 gas。
I mean, there won't be gas there 200 years from now.
这一点我们很清楚。
We know that.
所以 depreciation 是真实存在的，而且它是最糟糕的一种费用。
So depreciation is real, and it's the worst kind of expense.
它就是反向的 float。
It's reverse float.
你知道，你得先把钱投出去，之后才有收入，而且在这期间，现金已经流出去了，却没有任何钱进来。
You know, you lay out the money before you get revenue, and you are out cash with nothing coming in.
而 depreciation——任何一个 management 如果不把 depreciation 当成费用来看，那就是活在梦里。
And depreciation—any management that doesn't regard depreciation as expense, you know, is living in a dream world.
当然了，你知道，investment bankers 跟他们大谈 EBITDA，也是在鼓励他们这么想。
But of course, they're encouraged to do that, you know, by investment bankers who talk to them about EBITDA.
有些人就是靠误导 investors、让他们相信 EBITDA 是个了不起的东西，进而积累起巨额财富的。
Certain people have built fortunes on misleading investors by convincing them that EBITDA was a big deal.
而当我们看到一些公司说，嘿，我们不交税——因为按税务口径我们没有 earnings，再把 depreciation 这些都不算进去——你知道，在我们看来，这很多时候已经非常接近一种骗人把戏了。
And when we see companies that say, hey, we don't pay any taxes, and, you know, because we don't have any earnings for tax purposes and don't count depreciation and all of that, you know, that's coming, in our view, many times that's coming very close to a flim-flam game.
你知道，经常有人拿这些东西给我看，他们想寄给我一些里面满是 EBITDA 的材料；我就直接告诉他们，等你告诉我，所有 capital expenditures 都由你来出，我再看这个数字。
You know, I get these people that show me, you know, they want to send me books with EBITDA in it, and I just tell them, you know, I'll look at that figure when you tell me you'll make all the capital expenditures.
如果 capital expenditures 要由我来承担，那我能想到的企业里，几乎没有几家能在年复一年都远低于 depreciation 的资本支出水平下，还维持住这家企业的经济实力。
If I'm going to make the capital expenditures, there's very few businesses where I think I can spend a whole lot less than depreciation year after year and maintain the economic strength of the business.
所以我觉得，我觉得 EBITDA 这个词，已经让很多投资者亏了很多钱。
So I think, I think EBITDA has been a term that has cost a lot of investors a lot of money.
你们在 telecom 这个行业里就看到过。
You saw it in the telecom field.
我的意思是，他们花钱花得他妈的太快了，你知道吧，我是说，投资者投进来的钱，根本快不过他们花出去的速度。
I mean, the idea that they were spending money so damn fast, you know, I mean, they couldn't have it coming in the door fast enough from investors.
然后他们还假装折旧，呃，不算是真实的费用。
And then they pretended that depreciation, uh, was not a real expense.
这，这纯粹是胡扯。
That, that's nonsense.
我的意思是，再糟也糟不过这个了。
I mean, it couldn't be worse.
而且，呃，整整一代投资者，某种程度上都是被这样一种观念带起来的。
And, uh, and a generation of investors were sort of brought up to believe in that.
我们 Berkshire 今年的支出会超过我们的折旧。
We at Berkshire will spend more than our depreciation this year.
我们去年的支出也超过了折旧。
We spent more than our depreciation last year.
再前一年，我们的支出还是超过了折旧。
We spent more than our depreciation the year before that.
你知道，折旧是真实的费用。
You know, depreciation is a real expense.
它和照明开支一样，都是实实在在的支出。
It's just as much as, you know, the expenditure for lights.
它不是什么非现金费用。
It's not a non-cash expense.
它就是现金费用。
It's a cash expense.
只不过是你先把钱花掉了。
You just spend it first.
你知道吧，我是说，现金已经没了。
You know, I mean, the cash is gone.
而这只是对一笔现金支出的延后记录。
And it's, it's a delayed recording of a cash expense.
我真搞不懂，怎么会有人把这东西变成一种衡量指标，还拿它来谈 earnings。
How anybody can turn that into something they use as a metric that talks about earnings is beyond me.
Charlie？
Charlie?
对，我觉得只要你看到任何用了 EBITDA 这个词的报告，每次都把这个词直接替换成“胡扯式收益”，你就能看明白了。
Yeah, I think you would understand any presentation using the word EBITDA if every time you saw that word you just substituted the phrase bullshit earnings.
我就知道他迟早会这么说的，诸位。
I knew he'd do it sooner or later, folks.
还有市长——他早上算是撑过去了，但从来撑不了一整天。
And the mayor—he made it through the morning, but never all day.