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2015年伯克希尔股东大会问答集锦(中文字幕)

812 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 90:17
M1
M10:00

嗨,Warren。

Hi, Warren.

嗨,Charlie。

Hi, Charlie.

很高兴来到这里。

Great to be here.

而且这是我第一次来。

And this is my first time here.

能被选中回答问题,真的太幸运了。

Incredibly lucky to have my question answered.

所以我的问题是:你们能不能列出一家公司的至少 5 个特征,让你们有信心去预测它未来 10 年的盈利?

So my question is this: can you name at least 5 characteristics of a company that gives you confidence to predict its earnings 10 years out in the future?

你们还能不能拿 IBM 作为案例,说明它是怎么把这些条件都满足的?

And can you also use IBM as a case study, how it checked all those boxes?

Charlie,你的 5 个是什么?

Charlie, what are your 5?
M2
M20:40

我们买企业,没有一套放之四海而皆准的体系。

We don't have a one-size-fits-all system for buying businesses.

每一家都不一样。

They're all different.

每个行业也都不一样。

Every industry is different.

而且我们也一直在学习。

And we also keep learning.

所以我们 10 年前做的事,希望现在做得更好了,但我们没法给你一个能直接帮到你的公式。

So what we did 10 years ago, we hopefully are doing better now, but we can't give you a formula that will help you.
M1
M11:01

现在,如果你看的是我们在 2009 年看的 BNSF Railroad,或者你看的是 2014 年的 Van Tuyl,我们脑子里会冒出很多想法,而这些想法里,大多数都是会让我们停下来、不再往前走的。

Now, if you're looking at the BNSF Railroad as we were in 2009, or if you're looking at Van Tuyl in 2014, there are a lot of things that go through our minds, and most of the things that go through our minds are things that will stop us from going further.

我是说,筛选条件是存在的,而且有很多东西,如果我们在一家企业里看到它,包括也许是我们在跟谁打交道,就会让我们不再往下一层看。

I mean, there's the filters are there, and they're there are a lot of things that if we see it in a business, including maybe who we're dealing with, will stop us from going on to the next layer.

但不同企业之间差别很大。

But it's very different in different businesses.

我们会找那些我们确实觉得,对它 5 年或者 10 年后的样子能有个比较靠谱判断的东西,这也确实会排除掉很多企业。

We are looking for things where we do think we've got some reasonable fix on how it's going to look in 5 or 10 years, and that does eliminate a great many businesses.

但根本不是同样的 5 个问题。

But it's not the same 5 questions at all.

当然,当我们买的是一家企业,而且会让卖给我们的人继续替我们经营时,一个非常大的问题就是,我们是不是真的愿意和这个人做伙伴,并且指望他在未来,哪怕他不再拥有这家企业,也能像他过去拥有这家企业时那样行事?

Certainly, when we're buying a business where we're going to have somebody that's selling it to us continue to run it for us, a very big question is, do we really want to be in partnership with this person and count on them to behave in the future when they don't own the business as they've behaved in the past when they do own the business?

这会让相当一部分交易停下来,但我没法给你 5 个。

And that stops a fair number of deals, but I can't give you 5.

我们没有一份 5 条清单,或者就算有,Charlie 也没让我看到。

We don't have a list of 5, or if we do, Charlie's kept it from me.

你还想问点别的吗?

Do you want anything more?

不了。

No.

Becky?

Becky?

这个问题是问 Charlie 的。

This question is for Charlie.

问题来自 John Bogle。

It comes from John Bogle.

他说,Charlie,是你把 Warren 的“烟蒂式”买入习惯给扭过来的。

He says, Charlie, you broke Warren of his cigar butt buying habits.
M2
M22:36

随着技术领域发生如此大的创新,IBM 是不是就像 1960 年代那些纺织厂一样?而且你有没有试着劝 Warren 别买 IBM?

With the significant innovation that is occurring in technology, is IBM similar to those textile mills in the 1960s, and did you try to talk Warren out of buying IBM?

答案是没有。

The answer is no.

我觉得 IBM 是一家非常有意思的公司。

I think IBM is a very interesting company.

它完全统治了 Hollerith 机器,你知道的,就是打孔卡计算;后来他们发明了电子计算,它又统治了那一阵子。

It totally dominated Hollerith machines, you know, the punch card computing, and then when they invented electronic computing, it dominated that for a while.

技术变革到来的时候,像 IBM 那样能适应得这么成功的,真的非常少见。

It's very rare that when a technological change comes along that people adapt as successfully as IBM did that time.

嗯,现在他们有了个人电脑,而这方面的结果就有好有坏。

Well, now they've had the personal computer, and that's been a mixed bag.

但我觉得 IBM 是一家非常可信的公司。

But I think IBM is a very credible company.

而且我们持有很多公司,它们都曾经遭遇过暂时的挫折,或者说,它们在某些方面曾经比现在强大得多。

And we own a lot of companies that have temporary reverses, or once were mightier in some ways than they are now.

IBM 现在依然是一家规模巨大的企业,我觉得它仍然是一家非常值得敬佩的企业,而且我认为我们是以一个合理的价格买入的。

IBM is still an enormous enterprise, and I think it's still a very admirable enterprise, and I think we bought it at a reasonable price.
M1
M13:47

我们买入的时候,投票结果是二比零。

When we bought it, it was a two-to-nothing vote.

对。

Yeah.

好。

Okay.

顺便说一句,有一件事我一直觉得很有意思。

Incidentally, there's one thing I always find interesting.

大家会问我们持有的投资问题,而且人们觉得我们是想给这些投资抬轿子。

We get asked questions about investments we own, and people think we want to talk them up.

我们没有任何兴趣去鼓励别人买我们持有的投资。

We have no interest in encouraging other people to buy the investments we own.

我的意思是,如果是我们,或者说公司,将来很可能还会继续买股票,那对我们更有利。

I mean, we are better off because either we or the company is likely to be buying stock in the future.

我们为什么要希望股价上涨呢?

Why would we want the stock to go up?

如果我们明年、后年、大后年还会继续买入的话。

If we're going to be a buyer next year and the year after and the year after that.

但华尔街的整个心态就是:如果你买了某样东西,哪怕你以后还会继续买,或者公司会回购自己的股票,人们似乎都觉得,要是它第二天、下个星期或者下个月涨了,他们就更占便宜。

But the whole mentality of Wall Street is that if you buy something, even if you're going to buy more of it later on, or if the company's going to buy its own stock, people seem to think that they're better off if it goes up the next day or the next week or the next month.

所以他们才会说在 talk your book。

And that's why they talk about talking your book.

如果从我们的角度来 talk our book,我们就会对我们持有的四大重仓股都说些悲观的话,因为这四家公司都在回购自己的股份。

If we talked our book from our standpoint, we would say pessimistic things about all four of the biggest holdings we have because all four of them are repurchasing their shares.

很明显,它们回购股份的价格越低,我们就越有利。

And obviously, the cheaper they repurchase their shares, the better off we are.

但人们似乎不明白这一点。

But people don't seem to get that point.

Charlie,你知道为什么吗?

You have any idea why, Charlie?
M2
M25:02

Warren,如果人们不是经常犯错,我们就不会这么有钱了。

Warren, if people weren't so often wrong, we wouldn't be so rich.
M1
M15:15

他终于给我解释明白了。

He's finally explained it to me.

好。

Okay.

Gary?

Gary?

在他的信里,Charlie 谈到 Berkshire 的保险成功,说这种成功大到惊人,我相信如果 Buffett 现在回到一个很小的起点,虽然仍然保有他的聪明才智,并且恢复年轻,也已经没法再复制出来了。

In his letter, Charlie talked about Berkshire's insurance success, quote, being so astoundingly large that I believe that Buffett would now fail to recreate it if he returned to a small base while retaining his smarts and regaining his youth.

你同意你能做到吗?

Do you agree that you could?

那你觉得,今天保险行业里有哪些条件会妨碍我们重现那样的成绩?

So what do you think are the, the conditions in the insurance industry today that would inhibit a repeat of that performance?

嗯,我有很多很多很多的运气,但就保险业务来说,我有 3 次特别非凡的运气。

Well, I had many, many, many pieces of luck, but I had 3 extraordinary pieces of luck in terms of the insurance business.

其中一次是我 20 岁的时候,星期六有个叫 Lorimer Davidson 的人,愿意花 4 个小时跟一个他以前从没听说过的 20 岁小伙子讲解保险业务。

One was when I was 20 years old, having a fellow on a Saturday, a fellow named Lorimer Davidson, be willing to spend 4 hours with some 20-year-old kid who he'd never heard of before, explain the insurance business to him.

所以我在20岁那年接受了一次教育,这种教育我在美国任何商学院都不可能得到。

So I received an education at age 20 that I couldn't have gotten at any business school in the United States.

而这纯粹就是运气。

And that was just pure luck.

我的意思是,我只是碰巧去了Washington。

I mean, I just happened to go to Washington.

我根本不知道我会碰到他。

I had no idea I would run into him.

我也根本不知道他会不会跟我说话。

I had no idea whether he would talk to me.

结果他跟我待了4个小时。

And he spent 4 hours with me.

所以,这事就算是运气吧。

So just chalk that one up.

这种事再发生一次的概率呢,1967年我又走了运,当时Jack Ringwalt每年只花大概5分钟来考虑这事,却想卖掉他的公司,因为他会因为某些事生气。

The chances of that happening again—in 1967, I got lucky again when Jack Ringwalt, who bought for about 5 minutes every year, wanted to sell his company because he would get mad about something.

可能是来了什么他不喜欢的理赔申请,或者类似的东西。

Some claim would come in that he didn't like or something of the sort.

然后我就跟我的朋友,我告诉我的朋友Charlie Heider,我说,Jack下次心情不好的时候,一定要把他带到我办公室来。

And my friend—I told my friend Charlie Heider, I said, next time Jack is in the mood, be sure and get him to my office.

后来有一天Charlie把他带来了,我们买下了National Indemnity。

And Charlie got him up there one day and we bought National Indemnity.

这事我们本来做不到。

We couldn't have done that.

我们不只是隔一天做不到,甚至隔一个小时都做不到。

We not only couldn't have done that a day later, we couldn't have done it an hour later.

但事情就是这样,你知道,那就是运气。

But it just, you know, and that was lucky.

后来在80年代中期,我又真的走了大运。那天是个星期六,有个人走进办公室,他说,我从来没在保险行业干过,但也许我能帮你们做点什么。

And then I really got lucky in the mid-'80s when on a Saturday some guy came in the office and he said, I've never worked in the insurance business, but maybe I can do you some good.

那个人就是Ajit Jain。

And that was Ajit Jain.

你说这运气能有多好?

And how lucky can you get?

所以如果你问我,未来我们能不能再做成一次这样的三连运气,我会说,概率非常低。

So if you ask me whether we could pull off a trifecta like that again in the future, I'd say the odds are very much against it.

但做生意最重要的,就是对冒出来的想法保持开放。

But the whole thing in business is being open to ideas as they come along.

而保险碰巧是我能理解的东西。

And insurance happened to be something that I could understand.

我的意思是,那正好在我的舒适区里。

I mean, that was in my sweet spot.

如果Rose Blumkin跟我聊的是别的生意,你知道,那就没什么用,但碰巧他在解释这件事时正好击中了我的点。

If Rose Blumkin had talked to me about some other business, you know, it wouldn't have done any good, but it just so happened he hit a chord with me on that in explaining it.

我能听懂他在说什么,也能理解Jack卖掉National Indemnity时那家公司到底是什么。

I could understand what he was talking about, and I could understand what National Indemnity was when Jack had it for sale.

人生里意外的事情真的很多,但如果你一直对好意外保持开放,同时尽量躲过坏意外,你知道,总会有些好事发生。

And that's there's an awful lot of accident in life, but if you keep yourself open to having good accidents happen and kind of get past the bad accidents, you know, some good things will happen.

不一定会发生在保险行业,你知道,可能会发生在别的领域;如果你今天重新开始,可能会发生在别的领域。

Might not happen in insurance, you know, can happen in some other field, probably would happen in some other field if you were to start in today.

所以不,我们不可能指望三件这样的幸运事还能再发生,而且一路上还有很多别的幸运。

So no, we could not have—you couldn't expect to have 3 lucky events like that happen, and there were many more along the way.

但你知道,如果我们重新开始,我想我们会去做别的事情。

But, you know, we'd have—I think if we were starting over again, we'd find something else to do.

Charlie,你怎么看?

What about it, Charlie?
M2
M28:56

嗯,我觉得我们不会有那样的成功。你知道,我们大多是买下优秀的企业,然后把它们养大,但再保险业务是在这里的Omaha凭空创造出来的,而且它是个很大的业务。

Yeah, well, I don't think we would have that kind of success. You know, mostly we've bought wonderful businesses and nourished them, but the reinsurance division was just created out of whole cloth right here in Omaha, and it's a huge business.

对我们来说,保险一直不一样。

Insurance has been different for us.

这个问题来自 New York, New York 的 Simone Wallace。她写道:在过去五十年里,我们 Berkshire 的股东实际上一直都在押注糖消费,不管是通过像 See's Candies、Dairy Queen 这样的直接持有公司,通过为 Heinz 提供融资,还是通过如今像 Coca-Cola 这样的上市投资。

This question comes from Simone Wallace in New York, New York, and she writes: Over the last 50 years, we Berkshire shareholders have effectively been long sugar consumption through directly owned companies such as See's Candies, Dairy Queen, in funding Heinz, and in publicly traded investments such as Coca-Cola today.

但随着科学研究的进步,我们整个社会越来越意识到,更多糖摄入的真实代价,就是不断上升的医疗成本。

Yet from improvements in scientific research, we as a society have become increasingly attuned to the true cost of greater sugar consumption in the form of rising healthcare costs.
M1
M19:49

我们已经看到,对糖影响的这种认知,正在改变消费者的行为。

We are seeing this awareness of sugar's impact in changing consumer behavior.

碳酸软饮的销量在下降,而那些主打超市中间货架商品的消费品公司,内生增长也很吃力。

Carbonated soft drink volumes are declining, and consumer packaged goods companies focused on the center aisles of supermarkets are struggling with organic growth.

我们是不是已经到了一个拐点,我是说,在消费者怎么看待糖摄入这件事上,人类行为是不是已经出现了转折?

If we have reached an - have we reached an inflection point in human behavior in how consumers view sugar consumption?

你觉得 Coca-Cola 的护城河,还有可能也包括 Heinz 或 Kraft 的护城河,是不是在变窄?

And do you think Coca-Cola's moat, and potentially that of Heinz or Kraft's, is narrowing?

如果你不这么认为,那得出现什么样的消息,才会让你相信它确实在变窄?

And if not, what news would it take you to be convinced that it is?

嗯,我觉得那是一条宽得惊人的护城河,但我也认为,你刚才描述的那些趋势确实正在发生。

Well, I think it's an enormously wide moat, but I think it's also true that the trends you described are happening.

今天全世界会消费掉十九亿份、每份八盎司的 Coca-Cola 产品,不是 Coca-Cola 这一种,而是整个 Coca-Cola 的产品。

There will be 1.9 billion 8-ounce servings of Coca-Cola products, not Coca-Cola, but Coca-Cola products consumed in the world today.

我不觉得你会看到什么革命性的变化,但我觉得你会看到,所有食品和饮料公司都会随着时间推移,去适应消费者明确表达出来的偏好。

And I don't think you're going to see anything revolutionary, and I think you will see all food and beverage companies adjust to the expressed preferences of the consumers as they go along.

没有哪家公司能靠无视消费者而做得好,不过未来会有,我预测二十年后,人口会更多。到那时,消费掉的 Coca-Cola 箱数也会比现在更多,而且会多出相当一截。

No company ever does well ignoring its consumers, but there will be - I would predict 20 years from now, there will be more people. There will be more Coca-Cola cases consumed than there are now by some margin.

早在上世纪三十年代末,Fortune 就发过一篇文章,说 Coca-Cola 的增长已经结束了。

Back in the late 1930s, Fortune ran an article saying that the growth of Coca-Cola was all over.

而我们在一九八八年买入 Coca-Cola 股票的时候,人们对这个产品的增长前景也没那么兴奋。

And when we bought our Coca-Cola stock in 1988, people were not that enthused about growth possibilities for the product.

我现在坐在这里,可以这么说,过去三十年里,我摄入的所有热量中,有四分之一都来自 Coca-Cola,这一点也不夸张。

I sit here as somebody who, in the last 30 years, one quarter of all the calories I've consumed come from Coca-Cola, and that is not an exaggeration.

我这个人有四分之一都是 Coca-Cola 组成的。

I am one quarter Coca-Cola.

我也不确定是哪四分之一,不过你知道,如果你真要说的话,我不觉得这真的是个非此即彼的选择。

I'm not sure which quarter, but, and you know, if you really - I don't think there is this choice.

我觉得,做自己开心的事,这一点本身就很重要。

I think there's a lot to be said about being happy with what you're doing.

如果我这一辈子都在吃西兰花、抱子甘蓝之类的东西,我觉得我反而活不了这么久。

If I'd been eating broccoli and Brussels sprouts and all that all my life, I don't think I'd live as long.

你想啊,我每次吃饭前都会觉得,这简直像去坐牢一样。

You know, every meal I would approach thinking, you know, it's like going to jail or something.

不,我觉得,Charlie 你说呢?

No, I think - Charlie?

完全同意。

Absolutely.

Charlie 都九十一岁了,他的习惯跟我也没差太多。

Charlie's 91, and his habits aren't that different than mine.

也就比我稍微好一点。

They're slightly better.
M2
M212:39

John?

John?

这点毫无疑问。

There's no question about it.

在我看来,糖是一种非常有帮助的物质。

The way I look at it is sugar is an enormously helpful substance.

它能防止动脉过早变软。而我的看法是,就算我因此早死一点,那也不过是少经历几个月在养老院里流口水的日子。

It prevents premature softening of the arteries, and the way I look at it is that if I die a little sooner, that'll just be avoiding a few months of drooling in a nursing home.
M1
M113:14

Charlie 和我几乎享受过我们吃过的每一顿饭,只有我在祖父家吃饭、他逼我吃那些该死的绿色蔬菜的时候除外。

Charlie and I have enjoyed every meal we've ever had virtually, except when I was eating at my grandfather's and he made me eat those damn green vegetables.

不过,偏好显然还是在发生一些变化,虽然这个领域里的产品生命力之强,确实很惊人。

But there obviously are some shifts in preferences, although it's remarkable how durable items are in this field.

我记得,Berkshire Hathaway 大概从一九八一年左右开始,到一九八四年它被 Philip Morris 收购为止,一直都是 General Foods 的最大股东。

Berkshire Hathaway, I believe, was the largest shareholder of General Foods from about 1981 or thereabouts to about 1984 when it was bought by Philip Morris.

你知道,那已经是三十多年前了,而那些同样的品牌,先是进了 Philip Morris,后来又被分拆成 Kraft,之后 Kraft 又拆成了两块,不过现在这些品牌要归我们所有了,而且它们都是很棒的品牌。

And, you know, that's 30-plus years ago, and those same brands, they went through Philip Morris, they got spun out as Kraft, they broke Kraft into 2 pieces, but now we're going to own those brands and they're terrific brands.

Heinz 可以追溯到一八六九年。

Heinz goes back to 1869.

番茄酱是稍后一点才出来的。

The ketchup came out a little later.

他们当时靠辣根还是什么东西的时候,其实还破过产,不过番茄酱是在一八七零年代推出的。

They went bankrupt actually when they were counting on horseradish or whatever it was, but the ketchup came out in the 1870s.

Coca-Cola 可以追溯到一八八六年,而且相当有把握的一点是,非常非常多的人还是会喜欢同样的东西。

Coca-Cola dates to 1886, and it's a pretty good bet that an awful lot of people are going to like the same thing.

而且你知道,当我把喝 Coca-Cola 跟别人会在 Whole Foods 卖给我的那些东西相比时,我不知道,反正我没在 Whole Foods 那些人的脸上看到笑容。

And when I compare drinking Coca-Cola, you know, to, you know, something that somebody would sell me at Whole Foods, I don't know, I don't see smiles on the faces of people at Whole Foods.

所以 Andrew,我喜欢我们正在买的这些品牌。

So I like the brands we're buying, Andrew.

好。

Okay.
F1
F115:04

这个问题来自 Mona Diane,Warren,问的是你过去谈过的两个关于股市总体水平的指标。

This question comes from Mona Diane, and it concerns 2 indicators, Warren, that you have discussed in the past about the general level of the stock market.

第一个是总市值相对于美国 GNP 的百分比。你说过,这大概是在任何一个时点上衡量估值水平的最佳单一指标。

The first one is the percentage of total market cap relative to the US GNP, which you have said is probably the best single measure of where valuations stand at any given moment.

这个指标现在大概在百分之一百二十五。

This indicator is at about 125%.

也就是说,也就是总市值和美国 GNP 的比率,这个水平大概和 Warren 一九九九年谈到这个问题时差不多,也就是泡沫破裂前不久。

That is, that is the ratio of total market cap to US GNP, and that's about what it was when Warren talked about this back in 1999, just before the bubble broke.

第二个指标,是你在一篇很有名的一九九九年演讲里提到的,后来那篇演讲又变成了 Fortune 上的一篇文章,就是企业利润占 GNP 的百分比。

The second indicator, which you mentioned in a famous 1999 speech that subsequently became an article in Fortune, is corporate profits as percent of GNP.

你当时说,这个数字在很长一段时间里都在百分之四到百分之六点五之间,我理解那段时间是一九五一年到一九九九年。

You had said at the time that that number ranged between 4% to 6.5% over a long period of time, which I believe was 1951 to 1999.

而截至上周五,根据 Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis 的网站,这个数字大概是百分之十点五。

Well, as of Friday, it is about 10.5% according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis site.

这远远高于你刚才提到的那个区间。

That is way above the range you had mentioned.

这两个指标里其中一个,或者两个现在的水平,会不会让普通投资者需要担心?

Are the current levels of either one or both of these indicators a matter of concern for the general investing public?
M1
M116:43

对,不过第二个数字,也就是利润占 GDP 的百分比,可能会让社会上的其他一些群体担心,因为它说明美国企业这些年干得非常非常好。

Yeah, well, it might be the second figure, which is the profits as a percentage of GDP, might be a concern for other segments of society because what it indicates is that American business has done wonderfully well in recent years.

虽然大家总在说,美国企业因为美国税率和一大堆别的因素,处在多么不利的位置。

And though it says how much of a disadvantage it has because of US tax rates and a host of other things.

但事实是,美国企业的繁荣程度简直惊人。

You know, the facts are that American business has prospered incredibly.

而第一个比较,很大程度上受一个事实影响,那就是我们现在所处的利率环境,在不算太多年前,Charlie 和我大概都会觉得几乎不可能。

And the first comparison is very much affected by the fact that we live in an interest rate environment which Charlie and I probably would have thought was almost impossible, uh, not too many years ago.

很显然,如果政府债券收益率是百分之一,那么利润的价值就会高得多;如果政府债券收益率是百分之五,它们就没那么值钱。

And obviously, profits, uh, are worth a whole lot more, uh, if the government bond yield is 1% than they're worth if the government bond yield is 5%.

所以这又回到了,你知道,Charlie 在那部片子里谈到的选择和机会成本。

And so it gets back, and, you know, Charlie in that movie talked about alternatives and opportunity cost.

对很多人来说,机会成本就是,要么持有一大堆几乎不付什么利息的债券,要么持有股票。股票按历史标准看价格已经相当高了,但以前在这种利率水平下,股票可不是按那些历史价格在卖的。

And for many people, the opportunity cost is owning a lot of bonds, which pay practically nothing, or owning stocks, which are selling at fairly high prices historically, but they weren't selling at those historic prices with interest rates like this.

所以我会看这些数字,但我也会把它们放在这样一个背景下来看,那就是我们活在一个利率低得惊人的世界里。

So I would not, I look at those numbers, but I also look at them in the context of the fact that we're living in a world that has incredibly low interest rates.

问题在于,这种情况还会持续多久。

And the question is how long those are going to prevail.

是会像 Japan 那样一拖就是几十年,还是说我们会回到我们过去认为正常的利率水平?

Is it going to be something like Japan that goes on decade after decade, or will we be back to what we thought was normal interest rates?

如果我们回到正常利率,那按现在这个价格看,股票就会显得相当高。

If we get back to what are normal interest rates, stocks at these prices will look pretty high.

如果我们继续维持这种利率水平,那股票看起来就会非常便宜。

If we continue with these kinds of interest rates, stocks will look very cheap.

现在我已经把答案给你了,你自己挑一个吧。

And now I've given you the answer, and you can take your pick.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M219:05

这个,已经发生的事和现在的情况我们都没预测到,那为什么还会有人来问我们对未来怎么预测呢?

Well, since we failed to predict what happened and what exists now, why would anybody ask us what our prediction is in the future?
M1
M119:16

对了,顺便说一句,有一点我可以向你们保证,据我所知、按我的记忆,Charlie 和我从来没有因为 macro factors 去做一笔收购,或者放弃一笔收购。

Yeah, incidentally, the one thing I can assure you, Charlie and I, to my knowledge or my memory, I can't recall ever us making an acquisition or turning down one based on macro factors.

有交易机会来的时候,我们当然会讨论,但不管是 See's Candy,还是别的什么项目。

And we talk about deals when they come along, but whether it was See's Candy or whatever it might have been.

像 Burlington Northern,我们买它的时候,整体经济环境就很糟。

The Burlington Northern, we bought at a terrible time, general economic conditions.

但我们不会去聊那个,这个话题根本不会出现,因为接下来十二个月、二十四个月、三十个月会是什么样,我们知道自己根本不知道。

But we don't talk, it just doesn't come up because we don't know what the next 12 months, 24 months, 30, we know we don't know what that's going to look like.

但如果我们买一家企业是打算持有一百年,那些其实根本没什么区别。

But it doesn't really make any difference if we're buying a business to hold for 100 years.

我们要做的,是判断这门生意长期平均的盈利能力大概会是什么样。

What we have to do is figure out what's likely to be the average profitability of them.

以及它随着时间推移会怎么样,它的 competitive moat 有多强,诸如此类。

The business over time and how strong its competitive moat is and that sort of thing.

所以很多人很难相信这一点。

So people have trouble believing that.

他们觉得我们会讨论这些。

They think we talk about it.

我们觉得,任何一家雇了经济学家的公司,肯定就是多雇了一个员工。

We think any company that has an economist, you know, certainly has one employee too many.

Charlie,你还能想到什么更不客气的话,是我还没说的吗?

Charlie, can you think of anything rude to say that I haven't said?
M2
M220:38

这个嘛,想说得比那更狠还真不容易。

Well, it would be hard to top that one.

好。

Okay.

大家好,我是 Leonid Sagalovsky。

Hello, I'm Leonid Sagalovsky.

我来自 Illinois 的 Chicago,还有 California 的 Berkeley。

I'm from Chicago, Illinois and Berkeley, California.

感谢你们给我机会问这个问题。

I'd like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask this question.

这是我第一次来参加这个会议。

This is my first meeting.

我大概每五十年才来一次。

I tend to attend once every 50 years.

也感谢你们两位写的、关于 Berkshire 过去、现在和未来的文章。

And also for your essay on both of your essays on the past, present, and future of Berkshire.
M1
M121:07

在我们回顾过去五十年的时候,我想问你们这个问题:你们印象最深的一次失败是什么,你们又是怎么应对它的?

As we reflect on the last 50 years, I'd like to ask you this question: what was your most memorable failure, and how did you deal with it?

谢谢。

Thank you.

是的,嗯,我们在年报里很多次谈到 Dexter 这笔投资。早在九十年代中期,我看上了 Maine 州 Dexter 的一家制鞋公司,决定花大概四亿美元去买一个几年后注定会归零的企业,而我当时没看出来。

Yeah, well, we've discussed Dexter many times in the annual report, where I, back in the mid-1990s, I looked at a shoe business in Dexter, Maine, and decided to pay $400 or so million for something that was destined to go to zero in a few years, and I didn't figure that out.

更糟的是,我还是用股票支付的收购价,我想那些股票现在大概值,我也说不准,可能六十亿到七十亿美元吧。

And then on top of that, I gave the purchase price in stock, and I guess that stock would be worth, I don't know, maybe $6 or $7 billion now.

所以股价跌的时候,我反而会感觉好一点,因为这桩蠢事的代价就缩小了一点。

It makes me feel better when the stock goes down because the stupidity gets reduced.

在那件事上,没有任何人以任何方式误导我。

Nobody misled me on that in any way.

只是我自己看了之后,得出了错误的答案。

I just looked at it and came up with the wrong answer.

不过我得说,我们几乎每次发行股票,结果都成了个错误。

But I would say almost any time we've issued shares, it's been a mistake.

Charlie,你也会这么说吧?

Wouldn't you say that, Charlie?
M2
M222:17

当然。

Of course.

对,我们现在已经不太这么做了。

Yeah, we don't do it much anymore.
M1
M122:24

我们大概本来可以更积极一点,尤其是在早些年。

We probably could have pushed harder, particularly in the earlier years.

我们一直都是,怎么说呢,把自己全部身家都放在公司里了。

We've always been, well, we've had all of our own net worth in the company.

我们家人的全部身家也都在里面,还有很多从我们合伙企业那时候一路跟过来的朋友,其中很多人把自己一半甚至更多的身家都交给了我们。

We've had all our family's net worth, and we've had all these friends that came out of our partnership, many of whom put half or more of their net worth with us.

所以我们做事一直都非常非常非常谨慎。

And so we have, we've been very, very, very cautious in what we've done.

回头看,可能也确实有些时候,我们只要再往前一点,就能做成一笔相当大的交易,而我们当时没做,算是个错误。

And there probably were times when we could have stretched a little and pulled off something quite large that we made a mistake looking back.

但我可不愿意去冒那百分之一的风险,把我Katie姨妈的全部身家赔光之类的。

But I wouldn't want to take a 1% chance of wiping out my Aunt Katie's net worth or something.

这种事在我的人生里,我就是没法接受。

It's just not something in life that I could live with.

所以,我宁可谨慎过头一百倍,也不要哪怕有百分之一的不够谨慎。

So, I would rather be, you know, 100 times too cautious than 1% too incautious.

只要我还在,这一点就不会变。

And that will continue as long as I'm around.

不过,回头看我们过去,别人会说,我们错过了一些大机会,那些机会我们其实看得懂;如果我们愿意出去多借点钱,本来是可以出手拿下的。

But people looking at our past would say that we missed some big opportunities that we understood and could have swung if we'd wanted to go out and borrow more money.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M223:36

嗯,这显然是真的。

Well, it's obviously true.

如果我们像很多成功的经营者那样用了杠杆,Berkshire现在会大得多。

If we had used the leverage that a lot of successful operators did, Berkshire would be a lot bigger.
M1
M123:45

会大很多。

A lot bigger.
M2
M223:46

大很多。

A lot bigger.

但那样的话,我们晚上就得为这事冒汗了。

And but we would have been sweating at night.
M1
M123:51

为了财务上的事晚上还得冒汗,这太荒唐了。

It's crazy to sweat at night over financial things.
M2
M223:56

对,为了财务上的事。

Over financial things, yes.
M1
M124:06

好,这个我们就不展开了。

Well, we won't pursue that.

Carol?

Carol?

随着像Kraft Heinz这样的公司开始成为大型整合者,你觉得这个行业还有进一步整合的可能吗?还是你觉得,Nestlé最近对这笔交易的那些牢骚,再加上3G Capital在削减成本上手段有点太重的名声,已经足以让进一步整合先停住?

Do you see the potential for further consolidation in the industry with a firm like Kraft Heinz emerging as a big consolidator, or do you feel that Nestlé's more recent squawking about the deal and 3G Capital's reputation as being a bit heavy-handed with cost-cutting being enough to keep further consolidation at bay?

未来肯定还会有交易。

Well, there will be deals in the future.

我是说,这种事是一定会发生的。

I mean, they're bound to be.

但强势品牌这东西,你只要看看General Foods在八十年代拥有的那些品牌,再看看Kraft现在手里那些同样出自那家公司的品牌就知道了。

But the strong brands, you know, just look at the ones that General Foods had in the 1980s and the ones that Kraft has now that come from that same company.

而且,Coca-Cola去年卖出的饮料箱数,比他们历史上任何一年都多,今年还会卖得更多。

And I mean, Coca-Cola sold more cases of beverages last year than any year in their history, and they'll sell more this year.

我是说,强品牌的力量真的非常大。

I mean, a strong brand is really potent stuff.

比如说,拿Heinz Ketchup这类产品来说吧。

I mean, take Heinz Ketchup or something of the sort.

它在美国的品牌份额有百分之六十,但在很多其他国家还要高得多。

It's 60% brand share in the United States, but it's much higher in many other countries.

所以,零售商和品牌之间的较量永远都会有。零售商会把他们手里所有的施压手段都用上,所以品牌在消费者心里一定得代表点什么,因为到最后,零售商可能会改推自己的 house brand,也就是 private label。

So you'll always have the fight between the retailer and the brand, and the retailer is going to use all the pressure they've got, and therefore the brand has to stand for something in the consumer's mind, because in the end, the retailer may want to shift to a house brand, private label.

不过在 soft drink 这个领域,private label 早就存在了,一直都有。

But private labels have been around forever in the soft drink field.

我是说,我还记得当年我在看 Cott Beverage 还有那一类公司的时候,心里就在想,这会对我们造成什么冲击?

I mean, I can remember when I was looking at Cott Beverage and all of those and thinking, you know, what'll it do to us?

我记得 Sam Walton 给我寄来了第一组 6-pack。

I remember when Sam Walton sent me the first 6-pack.

他跟我说,那是二十年前 Sam's Cola 的第一组 6-pack。相信我,Walmart 的力量当然很大,但 Coca-Cola 也一样。

He told me it was the first 6-pack of Sam's Cola 20 years ago, and believe me, Walmart has plenty of power, but so does Coca-Cola.

而且品牌这个东西,你得持续去培育它。

And the brand, you've got to nourish them.

你知道,你得非常、非常、非常用心地呵护它。

You know, you've got to take very, very, very good care of them.

它必须对应上人们心里对它的那份承诺。

They have to stand for the promise that's in people's mind about them.

但很多人都试过这么干。这些年来,我都数不清出现过多少种 cola 饮料了,几十种,也许上百种。

But a lot of people have tried to—I don't know how many dozens or maybe hundreds of cola beverages there have been over the years.

像 RC Cola,你知道,他们早在六十年代初就推出了第一款 diet product,当时看起来像是个大动作。

RC Cola, you know, they came up with the first diet product back in the early '60s, and that looked like a big maneuver.

Wilson 在六十年代跟在 Gillette 后面也推出了 blade,可一百年之后,按销售额算,Gillette 在全球 razor blades 市场还是占了百分之七十。

Wilson came up with the blade back in the '60s after Gillette, but Gillette ends up with 70% by dollar value worldwide of razor blades after 100 years.

所以总之,你得保护品牌,得从各个方面去强化它,得在人们心里建立起一种承诺,而且还得按那个承诺把它兑现出来。

So there's all—you've got to protect a brand, you've got to enhance it in every way, you've got to get a promise in people's minds that gets delivered that way.

不过,这就是 Charlie 和我在一九七二年看 See's 的时候面对的问题。

But that's the question Charlie and I faced in 1972 when we looked at See's.

当时 See's 每磅卖一美元九十五美分。

See's was selling for $1.95 a pound.

Russell Stover 卖得还稍微便宜一点,你就得判断,如果他们冲着 See's 来,照抄我们的门店之类的,那他们到底能造成多大伤害。

Russell Stover was selling a little cheaper, and you had to decide how much damage could a Russell Stover do if they came after See's and they copied our shops and all that sort of thing.

如果你能保护好一个品牌,如果你手上有个特别棒的品牌,而且你把它保护好了,那它就是个了不起的资产。

If you protect a brand, if you've got a terrific brand and you protect it, it's a fabulous asset.

但你跟 Costco、Walmart,还有其他那些家伙打交道时,像 Kroger,随便你举谁,麻烦总是少不了。

But you'll always have trouble dealing with Costco and Walmart and the rest of the guys, Kroger, you name it.

你知道,他们也都很强硬。

You know, they're tough too.

不过,伟大的品牌会活下来,伟大的零售商也会做得很好。

But the great brands will survive, and the great retailers will do well.
M2
M227:28

好,这个话题我们也差不多聊完了。

Well, we've almost exhausted this topic.

毫无疑问,一波一波的裁员会让人害怕。

There's no question about the fact that waves of layoffs frighten people.

工作是一个人生活里非常重要的一部分,失去工作绝不是件小事。

A job is a very important part of a person's life, and it's no small thing to lose it.

但另一方面,我不觉得你能那么想。要是我们把所有人都留在农场上,我们这个国家会变成什么样?

But on the other hand, I don't think you— what would our country be if we'd kept everybody on the farm?

我们现在这群过得挺富足的人,凌晨四点都得在那儿铲干草、挤牛奶。

All this prosperous group would be pitching hay and milking cows at 4 in the morning.

不,我们得让企业处在合适的规模上。

No, we need our businesses to be right-sized.

太激动了。

Very exciting.

嗯,你说。

Yeah, what?

能在这儿见到我的超级明星们,真的太激动了。

Very exciting to see my superstars here.

我是 Leo,来自中国,是一名 value investor,也是您和 Charlie 的忠实粉丝。

I'm Leo, a value investor from China and a loyal fan of you and Charlie.

很多中国投资者都承受着各种业绩压力,会质疑 value investing,甚至嘲笑它。

Many Chinese investors feel all kinds of performance pressure, question, and even laugh at value investing.
M1
M128:31

很多人也认为,价值投资不适用于 China,因为那里的股市在过去 6 个月里刚刚翻了一番。

Many also believe that value investing does not apply to China, where the stock market just doubled over the last 6 months.

我想问 Buffett 先生,您觉得价值投资能在所有市场都普遍适用,还是只适用于像美国这样的成熟市场?

I would like to ask Mr. Buffett, do you think value investing can be widely applied in all markets, or just in mature markets, like the ones in the United States?

您对价值投资者在压力下如何坚持、以及怎样才能更快乐,有什么建议吗?

Do you have any suggestions for value investors to hold against pressure and to be much happier?

谢谢。

Thank you.

好吧,我不确定我是不是全都听明白了,不过 Charlie 会帮我补充。

Okay, I'm not sure I got all of it, but Charlie will help me.

我当然认为,投资原则不会止步于国界。

I certainly think investment principles do not stop at borders.

所以如果我在 China 或其他任何地方投资,比如 India、the U.K.、Germany,我都会完全照着我从《The Intelligent Investor》里学到的那套原则来做。

So if I were investing in China or anyplace else, India, the U.K., Germany, I would apply exactly the same sort of principles that I learned from The Intelligent Investor.

我会把股票看成一家企业的一小部分。

I would think of stocks as a small piece of a business.

我会把投资波动看成是来帮我的,而不是来伤害我的。

I would think of investment fluctuations being there to benefit me rather than to hurt me.

而且我会把注意力放在那些我觉得自己懂它们的竞争优势、也能看出它们 5 年或 10 年后会是什么样子的企业上。

And I would try to focus my attention on businesses where I thought I understood the competitive advantage they had and what they would look like in 5 or 10 years.

所以我想,我根本不会改变这些原则。

So I don't think I would change the principles at all.

我不确定我是不是把问题都听全了。

I'm not sure I got all of the question.

也许 Charlie 可以把剩下的部分展开讲讲。

Maybe Charlie can elaborate on the rest.
M2
M230:00

嗯,中国人历来很有创业精神,一有机会就很爱大赌一把,这就让中国股市波动非常大。

Well, the Chinese have a history of being very entrepreneurial and of gambling very heavily when they have the opportunity, and it has created great volatility in the Chinese stock markets.

而当市场像我们在美国那波互联网热潮那样热闹又繁荣的时候,中国看起来就很像 Silicon Valley。

And when things get bouncy and prosperous like our internet craze here in the United States, China looks a lot like Silicon Valley.

我觉得中国如果能更有价值投资者的思维,少一点沉迷在一波一波的投机里,会好得多。

I think China would do way better to be more value investor-minded and less absorbed in waves of speculation.

所以我觉得,中国越是学 Berkshire 的运作方式,对中国就越好。

So I think if they, the more China copies the way Berkshire operates, I think the better it'll be for China.
M1
M130:41

是啊,这里面有点讽刺的是,如果我们是在一个人们长期都很愚蠢地交易的市场里运作,几十年下来我们反而可能做得最好。

Yeah, there's a certain irony in that we would do the best over decades if we operated in a market where people operated very foolishly.

而且,人们越是对短期事件、夸大其词的东西,或者任何会让人极度兴奋、极度沮丧的事情作出反应,实际上就越会让人在证券市场里赚到很多钱。

And the more people respond to short-term events and exaggerated things, or anything that causes people to get wildly enthusiastic or wildly depressed, actually it is what allows people to make lots of money in securities.

但从另一方面说,这对社会可不是什么好事。

And on the other hand, it's not the greatest thing for a society.

Charlie 和我之所以受益巨大,是因为在过去 50 年里,出现过几段时期,最特别的大概是 1973 年和 1974 年,那时候股票便宜得难以置信,比 2008 年和 2009 年时还便宜。

And Charlie and I have benefited enormously by the fact that over a 50-year period, there have been a few periods, probably the most extraordinary being 1973 and '74, where you could buy stocks unbelievably cheap, cheaper than happened in 2008 and 2009.

你知道,市场有那么大的波动其实说不通,但人就是这样,人类会按人类的方式行事,而且未来 50 年他们还会继续这样。

And, you know, it doesn't make sense to have that much volatility in the market, but humans behave the way humans behave, and they're going to continue to behave that way in the next 50 years.

我是说,如果你是个年轻投资者,能退后一步,把股票当成企业来看,在特别便宜的时候买入,不管电视上别人怎么说,也不管你读到什么。

I mean, if you're a young investor and you can sort of stand back and value stocks as businesses, and invest when things are very cheap, no matter what anybody is saying on television or what you're reading.

而且如果你愿意,也可以在人们特别亢奋的时候卖出。

And perhaps, if you wish, sell when people get terribly enthused.

这真的不是什么很难的智力游戏。

It is really not a very tough intellectual game.

如果你能控制情绪,这就是个很简单的游戏。

It's an easy game if you can control your emotions.

正如 Charlie 说的,我们也稍微谈到过,他觉得中国市场可能更偏投机,里面的投机因素甚至可能比美国还多,因为它还是个相对较新的发展,所以也更容易走向更极端的情况。

And as Charlie says, that he thinks we've talked about a little bit that the Chinese market may be more speculative, there may be more speculative influences in it even than in the United States because it's a relatively new development, and it may lend itself to greater extremes.

而这就应该会带来很大的机会。

And that should produce great opportunities.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M232:45

是啊,不正常的繁荣之后,往往会出现过度和很糟糕的收缩之类的情况,而这也会带来很大的机会,等等。

Yeah, well, there's great opportunities for excess and nasty contractions after unnatural booms and so on.

我觉得中国抑制投机热潮是明智的,而且我觉得中国人……我不认为 value investing 会过时。

I think China is wise to dampen the speculative booms, and I think the Chinese—I don't think value investing will ever go out of style.

你买东西的时候,谁他妈不想要物有所值?

Who in the hell doesn't want value when you buy something?

除了 value investing,还有什么说得通呢?

How can there be anything else that makes any sense except value investing?
M1
M133:19

不过它从来没那么流行过。

It never gets that popular though.
M2
M233:23

人们都在找更容易的办法,而那是个错误。

People are looking for an easier way, and that's a mistake.

看起来更容易,但实际上更难,而且滥用股票会带来很多痛苦。

It looks easier, but in fact, it's harder, and there's a lot of misery to be obtained by misusing stocks.
M1
M133:37

没错,没人会买一块农场,就为了下周或下个月赚很多钱,或者买一栋公寓楼。

Yeah, nobody buys a farm to make a lot of money next week or next month, or they buy an apartment house.

他们是根据自己对长期前景的判断来买的,如果他们经过理性计算,觉得买入价有吸引力,他们就会买。

They buy it based on what they think the long-term future is, and if they make a reasoned calculation of that and the purchase price looks attractive, they buy it.

然后他们不会每天、每周、每月,甚至每年都去看它的报价。

And then they don't get a quote on it every day or every week or every month or even every year.

而这大概才是看待股票更好的方式。

And that's probably a better way to look at stocks.

Carol?

Carol?
F1
F134:01

巴菲特先生,您很多次都表达过您对美国未来的乐观,也经常指出,美国的经济体系就是更优越的。

Mr. Buffett, you have expressed your optimism about the future of America many times and have often made the point that the U.S. simply has a superior economic system.

不过我的问题,来自纽约市的 Christopher Gaccio,我的问题是关于化学、核、生物和 cybersecurity 问题的风险。

But my question, and this is from Christopher Gaccio of New York City, my question concerns the risk of chemical, nuclear, biological, and cybersecurity problems.

这些威胁会怎样影响你的看法?

How do these threats affect your outlook?
M1
M134:30

嗯,它们是美国面临的重大威胁。

Well, they are the great threat to the United States.

我们会有,我们现在有,而且以后还会有一个很棒的经济体系。

We will have, we have and will have a wonderful economic system.

你的孩子会比你过得更好,你的孙辈也会比他们过得更好。

Your children are going to live better than you do, and your grandchildren are going to live better than they do.

事情就是这样,会有磕磕绊绊、起起落落,不过你只要走到外面,或者你坐飞机回家的时候,想象一下你正飞越的那些地方,在 1776 年时是什么样子。

And that is how— there are fits and starts and ups and downs, but just go outside or as you fly home, just imagine what you're flying over looked like in 1776.

从那以后的一切,都是净赚的。

And everything since then is profit.

我是说,农场的生产力高得惊人。

I mean, the farms are incredibly more productive.

城市也发展起来了。

The cities have grown.

这一切都在这里。

It's all here.

你知道,这一切都来自于在这个运转得相当不错的制度里,把美国人的能量和智慧释放了出来,尽管我们总是谈论它的各种不足。

You know, and that's all come from unleashing the energies and brains of the American people in the system that has worked quite well despite all the deficiencies that we talk about all the time.

所以,这一点一点都没有丢。

So it—that hasn't been lost at all.

而且你知道,大家会因为我们只有 2% 的增长而不高兴。

And, you know, people get upset because we're having 2% growth.

可 2% 的增长,配上 1% 的人口增长,就意味着一代人能增长 20%。

Well, 2% growth with 1% population growth means 20% gain in a generation.

对。

Yeah.

而人均 GDP 是 54,000 美元,20% 就意味着下一代再多出 10,000 美元的人均 GDP。

And 20% on $54,000 of GDP per capita is another $10,000 of GDP per capita coming in the next generation.

这个国家有很美好的未来,但正如提问者指出的,那一切都可能被疯子、流氓国家、宗教狂热分子、反社会者,或者不管是什么人,只要他们已经有,或者想拿到,大规模杀伤性武器和核武器的人给毁掉。核武器,我以前一直以为是最主要的威胁。

This country has a wonderful future, but as the questioner pointed out, that can all be nullified by either madmen or rogue states or religious fanatics or sociopaths or whatever it may be who have or wish to have access to weapons of mass destruction and to nuclear, which is—I used to think was the primary one.

你知道,现在还得再加上生物、化学和 cyber。

You know, you can now add biological and chemical and cyber.

而且,想要作恶的人会越来越多——其实现在就已经有很多这样的人了,尤其是针对 United States,当然对其他地方也是一样。

And there will be an increasing number -- there already are a huge number of people that would wish harm, and particularly on the United States, although on others as well.

这些人不会消失,他们会想出更巧妙的办法,用手头已有的原材料,或者他们可能拿得到的原材料,再加上更好的投送系统。

And those people aren't going to go away, and they're going to look for more ingenious ways of utilizing the raw materials that they have or might get access to and better delivery systems.

我们在 United States 需要一套极其警觉的安全体系,而且我们会面临威胁。

And we need an extremely vigilant security operation in the United States, and we will have threats.

我会从几个方面稍微做一点这方面的事,但这就是我们要一起面对的现实。

I do a little bit about those things in a few ways, but that's something we live with.

不过,我们也生活在一个会干得极其出色的国家里,如果我们能成功挡住这些威胁,或者至少把它们对我们的影响降到最低,我还是坚持认为,从概率上说,今天在 United States 出生的婴儿,是历史上出生时最幸运的人。

But we also live in a country that is going to do extraordinarily well, and if we successfully ward off those threats, or at least minimize their impact on us, I still maintain that the luckiest person ever born in history on a probabilistic basis is the baby being born in the United States today.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M237:28

嗯,当然,我们本来就是个有利位置,也得到了一个有利结果,我们也很幸运。

Well, of course, we were a favored place, and we've had a favored outcome, and we've been lucky too.

我想,我大概生活在人类历史上任何人都能出生的最理想时代。

I think I probably lived in the most ideal era that any man in human history could have been born into.

我觉得你也是,Warren,你也是。

I think you too, you have too, Warren.
M1
M137:48

对。

Right.
M2
M237:49

不过,我觉得我们不该太自满。

But I don't think we should get too smug.

China 崛起的速度,比历史上任何一个大国都快得多。

China has come up a lot faster than any other big nation ever came up.
M1
M137:58

但这对我们有好处。

But that's good for us.
M2
M238:00

嗯,我想,我几乎想不出还有什么比未来 United States 和 China 之间的密切合作更重要。

Well, I think I can hardly think of anything more important than future close collaboration between the United States and China.

你说的是未来世界上最重要的两个国家,我认为彼此喜欢、彼此信任,关系非常好,而且一起合作,避免因为别人的错误和不端行为带来的糟糕后果,这非常重要。

You're talking about the 2 most important nations in the world going forward, and I think it is very important that we like and trust one another and have very good relations and work together to avoid bad consequences that come from other people's mistakes and misbehavior.

所以我——我觉得,China 和 United States 如果不合作、不增加信任,那简直是疯了。

So I'm -- I think both China and the United States would be crazy not to collaborate and increase trust.

我想不出还有什么事,比这更能保障我们各自的安全,也更能造福整个世界。

I don't think there's anything more important that we can do for our respective safety and for the general benefit of the world.

对。

Yeah.
M1
M138:58

如果让你选,你是更愿意现在、带着你拥有的所有特质出生,还是回到你出生的时候?

If you had your choice, would you rather be born now with all the qualities you've got or when you were born?
M2
M239:08

嗯,我得说,这问题现在挺有意思。

Well, I must say it's very interesting now.

我觉得这问题太难了。

I think that's too tough a question.

我不喜欢这种特别理论化的问题。

I don't like these very theoretical questions.

我宁愿去想一些我可能能占点优势,或者能帮别人也占到优势的事情。

I'd rather think about something where I might gain some advantage or help somebody else to gain an advantage.
M1
M139:24

好,那我们继续问 Jonathan。

Okay, then we'll move on to Jonathan.

呃,这是来自 Omaha 的 John Wells 提的一个问题,呃,他说,你把通胀形容成一条巨大的企业绦虫。

Uh, this is a question from John Wells right here in Omaha, uh, and he says, you've described inflation as a gigantic corporate tapeworm.

Berkshire 的哪些业务最适合在高通胀时期生存并发展,为什么?

Which of Berkshire's businesses are best suited to thrive during a period of high inflation and why?

哪些会受影响,受影响最严重的是哪些,为什么?

Which will suffer and suffer the most and why?

嗯,通胀时期最好的业务,通常本来就是最好的。它们是那种你只买一次,之后就不必再持续追加资本投资的业务。

Yeah, well, the best businesses in inflation -- during inflation are usually the best. They're the businesses that you buy once, and then you don't have to keep making capital investments subsequently.

这样你就不会因为通胀而面临不断再投资、而且投入金额越来越大的问题。

So you do not face the problem of continuous reinvestment involving greater and greater dollars because of inflation.

这也是为什么,房地产总体来说在通胀时期表现很好。

That's one reason real estate in general is good during inflation.

如果你像Charlie那样在55年前自己盖了房子,或者像我这样在55年前买了房子,呃,那就是一次性的支出。

If you built your own house 55 years ago like Charlie did, or bought one 55 years ago like I did, uh, it's a one-time outlay.

而如果你是做那类生意的,你就会在不用自己亲自去更换的情况下,得到替换资本因通胀而扩张的好处。

Whereas if you're, and you get the, you get an inflationary expansion in replacement capital without having to replace yourself.

而且如果你手里有对别人有用的东西,时间一长,它往往就会按重置价值来定价。

And if you've got something that's useful to someone else, it tends to be priced in terms of replacement value over time.

所以你真能吃到通胀带来的好处。

So you really get the inflationary kick.

现在,如果你做的是公用事业或者铁路这种生意,它就会不断吞掉越来越多的钱,而你的折旧计提又不够,你其实是在自欺欺人,以为自己的真实经济利润比实际更高。

Now, if you're in a business such as the utility business or the railroad business, it just keeps eating up more and more money, and your depreciation charges are inadequate, and you're kidding yourself as to your real economic profits.

所以,任何需要大量资本投入的生意,在通胀时期往往都不好做,而且通常说来,本身也常常不是个好生意。

So any business with heavy capital investment tends to be a poor business to be in, in inflation, and often it's a poor business to be in generally.

而那种你只买一次就行的生意里,品牌在通胀时期是特别好的资产。

And the business where you buy something once, a brand is a wonderful thing to own during inflation.

你知道,See's Candy 很多年前就把它的品牌建立起来了。

You know, See's Candy built their brand many years ago.

现在,我们一路走来还得不断培育它,但这个品牌的价值在通胀中会上升,就像任何真正强势品牌商品的价值一样。

Now, we've had to nourish it as we've gone along, but the value of that brand increases during inflation just as the value of really any strongly branded goods.

Gillette 在1939年买下了 World Series 的全部广播权。

Gillette bought the entire radio rights to the World Series in 1939.

我记得,那花了他们10万美元。

And as I remember, it cost them $100,000.

他们因此得以转播1939年 Yankees 对 Reds 的比赛,我记得是这样。

And for that, they got to broadcast the Yankees, I think, versus the Reds in 1939.

想想看,花10万美元,按1939年的币值,能在人的脑子里留下多少印象。

And think of the number of impressions they made on minds in 1939 dollars for $100,000.

他们是在往像我这样的年轻人脑子里钻。

And they were getting into the minds of young guys like myself.

我那时才8、9岁,外加数百万人。

I was 8 or 9, and millions of people.

他们当年就是用那样的美元做到的。

And they did it in those dollars then.

当然,如果你现在也想在数百万人的脑海里留下类似印象,那就得花一大笔钱。

And of course, if you were going to go out and try and do have similar impressions on millions of minds now, it costs a fortune.

这里面一部分是通胀造成的,一部分是别的原因。

And part of that's due to inflation, part of it's due to other things.

但那是一笔很棒的投资,用1939年的美元就能做,后来在1960、1970和1980年代卖剃须刀和刀片时,就回本了。

But it was a great investment which could be made in 1939 dollars that paid off in terms of selling razors and blades in 1960 and 1970 and 1980 dollars.

所以你想拥有的,就是这种生意。

So that's the kind of business you want to own.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M242:52

嗯,是的,不过要是通胀哪天彻底失控了,你根本不知道最后会变成什么样。

Well, yeah, but if the inflation ever goes completely out of control, you have no idea how it's going to end up.

要不是 Weimar inflation,也许就不会有 Adolf Hitler。

If it weren't for the Weimar inflation, we might never have had Adolf Hitler.

正是德国那场大通胀,再加上 Great Depression 这对组合,把 Hitler 带了出来。

It was the twosome of the great German inflation followed by the Great Depression that brought us Hitler.

想想看,世界为此付出了多大的代价。

And think of the price that the world paid for that one.

我们可不是因为通胀对 See's Candy 有利,才想要通胀。

We don't want inflation because it's good for See's Candy.
M1
M143:26

我还真没意识到我是在主张这个。

I didn't quite realize I was proposing that.
M2
M243:28

不不,我不是在批评你。

No, no, I wasn't criticizing you.
M1
M143:31

对 See's Candy 有利的,也就是对美国有利的。

What's good for See's Candy is good for the United States.
M2
M243:37

好,Gary。

Okay, Gary.

所以在今年的年度信里,Charlie 写到了那些很特别的特质,正是这些特质让 Berkshire 这个体系,以及这个体系的领导者,成了一个在历史上很有组织力的存在,一个组织性的实体。

So in this year's annual letter, Charlie wrote about the peculiar attributes that made the Berkshire system and the leader of the system a historically organizing entity, an organizational entity.

所以我想问你们二位的是,对于一个刚刚起步、很有进取心的年轻人,如果他想打造一家重要、持久,而且有那种级别的独特性和影响力的企业,你们会特别强调哪些实用的思维模型?

So, my question to both of you is, what practical mental model or mental models would you impress upon a young, enterprising individual at the infancy of their career to build an important, enduring enterprise of that particular distinction and impact?

如果你们还能举一些对比的例子,比如说,为什么 Microsoft 能把自己发展成一家占主导地位、像巨石一样庞大的公司,而 See's Candy 虽然可以是一家很棒、能持续产出现金流的企业,却不一定能成为像 Berkshire 或 Microsoft 那样有那种级别影响力的企业?

And if you could give, like, maybe some contrasting examples, like, why is Microsoft able to build itself into a dominating, monolithic company, versus a See's Candy, which can be a great enterprise to spin off cash flow, but not necessarily be an enduring—or not necessarily enduring, but an impactful enterprise to the level of a Berkshire or a Microsoft?

谢谢你,Warren。

Thank you, Warren.
M1
M144:37

这可是你写的。

You're the guy that wrote it.

顺便说一句,这个是菠萝汁。

This is pineapple juice, incidentally.

刚才还有人在怀疑这个。

People were questioning that.

他们说如果你要讲很长时间的话,这东西对嗓子有好处。

They say it's good for your throat if you're going to talk a long time.
M2
M244:54

对。

Yes.

嗯,当然了,声誉是要经过很长时间才建立起来的。

Well, of course, reputation you get over a long period of time.

很少有人会像 Charles Lindbergh 那样,一下子就突然有了很大的名声。

Very few people are like Charles Lindbergh, where you just suddenly have a great reputation.

我们大多数人都得慢慢地、一点一点地把声誉建立起来,Berkshire 的情况也是这样。

Most of us have to acquire one very slowly, and that was true in Berkshire's case.

对任何个人来说也是一样,你只能在分配给你的这些年里、在你拥有的时间里,尽力去建立你能建立的最好声誉。

And any individual, you just have to get the best reputation you can in the years you're allotted and the time available.

最后结果可能很好,也可能不好,但这都是一项明智的投资。

And it may work out well, it may work out poorly, but it's a wise investment.

我总是看到这样的机会落到一些人头上,原因就是他们过去建立起来的信誉,让他们得到了新的机会。

I see all the time opportunities come to people where it's their credibility they've gotten in the past that causes them to have the new opportunity.

所以我觉得,人生里几乎没有什么事情比一路好好做人更重要。

So, I think hardly anything is more important than behaving well as you go through life.

而且我觉得,实际上我们是在变得更富有之后,反而更努力让自己表现得更好。

And I think we actually try to behave better as we got more prosperous.

我觉得如果你不这么做,那就太傻了。

And I think you'd be crazy if you didn't.

所以,我当然建议你遵循那些老派的原则。

So, I certainly recommend that you follow those old-fashioned principles.

不过我不觉得有什么办法能保证你一定打造出一个超级强势的品牌,而且如果那种结果本身就是五千万分之一的级别,那你多半也拿不到。

And I don't think there's any way of guaranteeing a total powerhouse brand, nor can— if a result is a 1 in 50 million type result, you're probably not going to get them.
M1
M146:16

Fiat 的 Gianni Agnelli,大概是在一九八八年吧,有一次我和他一起吃晚饭,他对我说过一句话,我一直记到现在。

Gianni Agnelli of Fiat, back in, I think it was 1988, I was at dinner with him one time, and he said something to me that stuck with me.

他说,等你老了以后,你拥有的会是你应得的那种声誉。

He said, when you get old, he says, you'll have the reputation you deserve.

他说,有那么一段时间,你是可以糊弄别人的,但他说,他当时是在说他自己,不过他说,等你到了我这个年纪,你有什么样的声誉,多半就是你应得的那一个。

He said, for a while you can fool people, but he says, when he was talking about himself at the time, and but he said, when you get to be my age, he says, whatever reputation you have, it's probably the one you deserve.

我觉得公司也是一样。

And I think the same is true of companies.

而且坦白说,Berkshire 确实从中受益很大,因为它已经建立起了一种名声,就是一家有点不太一样的公司。

And frankly, you know, it has helped Berkshire a whole lot, that it has gotten a reputation to be a somewhat different sort of company.

我的意思是,我不觉得我们一开始就是特意要这么做的,但结果确实就变成了这样。

I mean, I don't think we set out to do that exactly, but it has worked out that way.
F1
F147:10

这个问题稍微有点特别,来自澳大利亚墨尔本的 Jordan Shapiro。

This question, which is a little bit offbeat, comes from Jordan Shapiro of Melbourne, Australia.

Buffett 先生,在 Benjamin Graham 的《Security Analysis》第六版前言里,你提到过四本你特别珍视的书。

Mr. Buffett, in the foreword to the 6th edition of Benjamin Graham's Security Analysis, you identified 4 books that you particularly cherish.

其中三本都是 Graham 本人写的,它们对你的影响大家都很清楚。

3 of these books were authored by Graham himself, and their influence on you is well known.

不过,第四本书对你思考方式的影响,大家就没那么熟悉了。那本书就是 Adam Smith 的《The Wealth of Nations》,出版于一七七六年。

The contributions of the 4th book to your thinking, however—that book was Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776.

大家很少会谈到那本书对你意味着什么。

What that book meant to you is seldom discussed.

所以我想问的是,你从 The Wealth of Nations 里学到了什么?它又是怎么塑造你的投资和商业理念的?

So my question is, what did you learn from The Wealth of Nations, and how did it shape your investment and business philosophy?
M1
M147:56

嗯,它倒没有塑造我的投资理念,不过我确实从里面学到了经济学。

Well, it doesn't shape my investment philosophy, but I certainly learned economics from it.

而且我朋友 Bill Gates 送了我一本原版书。

And my friend Bill Gates gave me an original copy of it.

这样我就能好好研究它了。

Now, I was able to study this.

Adam Smith 是在一七七六年写的。

Adam Smith wrote it in 1776.

你知道,这么说吧,如果你读 Adam Smith,再读 Keynes、Ricardo,然后再读我们外面摆着的那本叫 Where Are the Customers' Yachts 的小书,你就会获得很多智慧。

It's, you know, there's just if you read Adam Smith and if you read Keynes, Ricardo, and then, and if you also read that little book we've got out there called Where Are the Customers' Yachts, you will have a lot of wisdom.
M1
M148:49

所以 Fruit of the Loom 那边有那些,我们这边有 Fred Schwed 的 Where Are the Customers' Yachts 这本书。这本书页数很少,却包含了惊人的智慧,而且还特别有趣。

So Fruit of the Loom has those, and we have Fred Schwed's Where Are the Customers' Yachts book, which contains an incredible amount of wisdom in very few pages and very entertaining.

不过,如果你不光想学到更多智慧,还想让自己看起来更有学问,那你也该读读 The Wealth of Nations。

But if you want to go for, if you want to not only get a lot more wisdom but appear more erudite, you should read The Wealth of Nations also.

Charlie 呢?

Charlie?
M2
M249:11

对,我觉得 Adam Smith 的东西确实非常经得起时间考验。

Well, yeah, I think Adam Smith has really worn well.

我的意思是,他被公认为有史以来最有智慧的人之一,这个评价一点都不过分。

I mean, he is rightly recognized as one of the wisest people that ever came along.

当然,后来共产主义失败得那么惨的时候,他当年讲的那些道理,其实又被重新证明了一遍。

And of course, the lessons that he taught way back then were taught again when communism failed so terribly.

而像 Singapore、Taiwan、China 这些地方,也都崛起得非常快。

And people like Singapore and Taiwan and China and so forth came up so fast.

资本主义制度的生产力简直让人难以置信,而他很早就彻底明白了这一点,也因此做了很多好事。

The productive power of the capitalist system is simply unbelievable, and he understood that fully and early, and he's done a lot of good.
M1
M149:53

我借用了他关于劳动分工的一个想法。你知道,他当时讲的是人们怎么分工做别针之类的东西,但我其实把这个想法用在了慈善上。

I took an idea of his on the specialization of labor, you know, and he talked about people making pins or something, but I applied that actually to philanthropy.

你知道,就是让别人去做他们最擅长的事,自己就专心做自己最擅长的事。这个想法我从割草坪到做慈善,一直都在用。

You know, I mean, the idea that you let other people do what they're best at and stick with what you're best at, I've carried from mowing my lawn to philanthropy.

把别的事都推开,承认别人做那个就是比你强,然后自己去做对你来说产出最高的领域,这真是件很棒的事。

And it's a wonderful thing to just shove off everything and saying somebody else is better than that, than I am at that, and then work in the field that's most productive for you.
M2
M250:23

你也没自己给自己做肠道手术吧?

You didn't do your own bowel surgery either?
M1
M150:31

没有。

No.

这我还真不知道该怎么回答。

I'm not sure I have any reply to that.

好,Jonathan。

Okay, Jonathan.

我叫 Neil Ganediwal,来自 South Florida,现在上七年级。

My name is Neil Ganediwal from South Florida, and I'm currently in 7th grade.

我的问题是,怎么才能交到很多朋友,让别人喜欢你,也愿意跟你一起做事?

My question is, how do you make lots of friends and get people to like you and work with you?

这问题不错。

That's not a bad question.

非常好的问题。

Very good question.
M2
M251:02

这个嘛,你知道,我在你这个年纪的时候相当招人烦,老爱问一些很冒失的问题,所以也不是每个人都喜欢我。

Well, you know, I was pretty obnoxious when I was your age and asked a lot of impertinent questions, and not everybody liked me.

所以,我唯一能让别人稍微喜欢我一点的办法,就是变得非常有钱,而且非常慷慨。

And so the only way I could get the people to like me a little bit was to get very rich and very generous.
M1
M151:22

这招确实行得通。

That will work.

要是别人觉得你会开支票,他们就会在你身上看出各种各样的美德。

People will see all kinds of virtues in you if they think you'll write a check.

是啊,事实是,Charlie 和我早年都挺招人烦的,不过人年纪大了,应该对人性多懂一点,我后来在什么管用这件事上,碰到了几位很不错的老师。

Yeah, the truth is both Charlie and I were on the obnoxious side early on, but you should get a little smarter about human behavior as you get older, and I turned out to have some pretty good teachers as I went along in terms of what worked.

我这一生也观察过别人,从他们身上得到了这些很棒的老师。

I have looked at other people during my lifetime and had these wonderful teachers.

他们不是通常意义上的老师,但他们是我敬佩的人,我就会想,我为什么敬佩这些人?

They weren't teachers in the standard definition, but they were people I admired, and I thought to myself, why do I admire these people?

如果我也想让别人敬佩我,为什么不学一点他们的优点呢?

And if I want to be admired myself, why shouldn't I take on some of their qualities?

所以这事并不复杂。

So it's not a complicated proposition.

如果你看看身边,在学校里你喜欢的那些人,把他们做的让你喜欢他们的三四件事写下来。

If you look around you, at the people you like in your school, write down 3 or 4 things they do that make you like them.

然后再看看身边那三四个让你反感的人,把那些特质写下来,并且下决心让自己成为一个你自己也会喜欢的人,去拥有左边那个人的那些品质。

And then look around at the 3 or 4 people that turn you off and write down those qualities and decide that you're going to be a person you yourself would like, that you take on the qualities of the person on the left.

你要慷慨,要友善,要能幽默地看待事情,不去抢那些不是你做的事的功劳,诸如此类。

You're generous, you're friendly, you accept things with good humor, you don't claim credit for things you don't do, all of these things.

这些都做得到。

They're all possible to do.

如果你喜欢别人身上有这些品质,别人也会喜欢你有这些品质。

And if you like that in other people, people are going to like it in you.

如果你发现有些让人挺烦的毛病,比如总是迟到,总爱把不属于自己的功劳往自己身上揽,对什么都挺消极,而你又不喜欢别人身上这些毛病,那就把它们从自己身上去掉,你会发现这招挺管用。

And if you find things that are kind of obnoxious- you're always late, and you're always claiming credit for more than you do, and you're kind of negative on everything- and you don't like those in other people, get rid of them in yourself, and you'll find out it works pretty well.
M2
M253:03

这在婚姻里尤其管用。

And it really works in marriage.

如果你能改变自己,而不是想着去改变配偶,那就是个好主意。

If you can change yourself instead of trying to change your spouse, that's a good idea.
M1
M153:13

Charlie 说过,挑选结婚对象最重要的,不是去找聪明、幽默或者有品格的人。

Charlie has said the most important thing in selecting a marriage partner is that you don't look for intelligence or humor or character.

他说,你要找的是一个期望值不高的人。

He says you look for someone with low expectations.

几年前的年会上,我问过你的遗产规划,还有你那种想法,就是给孩子留得足够多,让他们什么都能做,但又不能多到让他们什么都不用做。

At the annual meeting a couple of years ago, I asked about your estate plan and your idea of leaving kids enough so they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing.

今天我想问你,为什么你决定签下 Giving Pledge,承诺把至少一半资产捐给慈善事业。

Today, I'd like to ask you about your decision to sign the Giving Pledge, promising to give away at least one half of your assets to charity.

你能谈谈你对慈善的看法,以及怎么平衡给家人留遗产和把资产捐给慈善之间的关系吗?

Can you talk about your views on philanthropy and how to balance leaving an inheritance to your family versus assets to charity?

这个嘛,很大程度上要看个人情况。

Well, it depends very much on the individual situation.

实际上,就我个人来说,我承诺捐出超过百分之九十九,但那之后还是会剩下不少。

And actually, I promised to give over 99% in my case, but that still leaves plenty left over.

你知道,过去这几年这里的遗产税免税额提高了很多。

As you know, the estate tax exemption has been moved up substantially here in the last couple of years.

所以,如果我有一个孩子,一直很积极地工作,帮我把生意做起来,诸如此类,而且那还是个小企业,我又想把它留给他,那我可能会有完全不同的想法,但现在这完全可以在不用缴遗产税的情况下做到。

So, I might have a very different feeling if I'd had a child that had worked actively, helped me build a business and all of that sort of thing, and it was a small business and I wanted to give it to them, but that can be really done without any estate tax.

现在尤其是提前做一点规划的话。

These days, particularly if a little planning is used ahead of time.

这件事非常因人而异。

It's a very individual thing.

Charlie 也说过,你知道,等你开始琢磨怎么处理自己的钱时,选择其实相当有限。

As Charlie, you know, when you get to figuring out what you do with your money, the options get fairly limited.

还有,正如 Charlie 前几天说的,你知道,他说他要去的那个地方,这些钱反正也帮不上他太多。

And as Charlie said the other day, you know, he said where he's going, it won't do him much good anyway.

墓地里可没有 Forbes 400 上榜的人。

There's no Forbes 400, you know, in the graveyard.

所以问题就是,怎么花才能把好处发挥到最大?

And so the question is, where does it do the most good?

我觉得,留有限的数量给我的孩子,确实能对他们有些实实在在的帮助。

And I think it does limited amounts, do some real good for my children.

所以我会确保他们有这笔钱,或者说他们在某种程度上已经有了。

So I'll be sure that they have that, or they already have it to a degree.

但另一方面,当我看着银行保险箱里那一叠大概五十年前放进去的股票凭证时,它们对我完全没有任何用处。

And on the other hand, when I look at a bunch of stock certificates in a safe deposit box that were put there 50 years ago or so, they have absolutely no utility to me.

一点用都没有。

Zero.

它们在生活里什么都帮不了我。

They can't do anything for me in life.

我的意思是,它们不能让我每天吃七千卡路里,而不是三千卡路里。

I mean, they can't let me consume 7,000 calories a day instead of 3,000.

它们不能,真的什么都做不了。

They can't - there's nothing they can do.

我想要的世界上的东西,我都有了。

I've got everything in the world I want.

我已经拥有几十年了。

I've had it for decades.

如果我还想要别的,我就去买。

If I wanted something additionally, I'd go buy it.

所以,这些东西对我没什么用,但对世界上其他地方的一些人来说,却有巨大的用处。

So here these things are that have no utility to me, and they have enormous utility to some people in other parts of the world.

我的意思是,它们可以救命。

I mean, they can save lives.

它们可以提供疫苗。

They can provide vaccines.

它们可以提供教育。

They can provide education.

它们有各种各样的用处。

There are all kinds of utility.

那为什么非得为我,或者为四代后的曾孙辈之类的人,放在那里呢,明明它们现在就能做很多好事?

So why in the world should they sit there for me or for some 4th generation down of great-grandchildren or something when they can do a lot of good now?

这就是我自己的想法,但我觉得每个人都得形成自己的看法,然后照着自己的感觉走。

So that's my own philosophy on it, but I think everybody has to develop their own feelings about it and should follow where they go.

我确实觉得,他们应该问问自己,这些钱放在哪儿最能发挥作用?

I do think, I do think they might ask themselves, where will it do the most good?

它对成千上百万人能起到的作用,和对我的作用之间,差别可能会大得惊人;那些人根本没有我这种过上像样生活的机会。

And it can be pretty dramatic between what it can do for millions of people that don't really have remotely the same shot at having a decent life that I've had, or what it can do for me.

我的意思是,如果我能有十栋房子,可我却可以买一家酒店来住。

I mean, if I could have 10 houses, but I could buy a hotel to live in.

我会更快乐吗?

Would I be happier?

那就太离谱了。

It'd be crazy.

Charlie 和我都喜欢相当简单的生活,但我们确实知道自己喜欢什么、不喜欢什么,而且我们不会按别人喜欢什么来评判。

Charlie and I both like fairly simple lives, but the one thing we do know is we know what we like and what we don't like, and we don't judge it by what other people like.

所以我也没什么太多建议能给别人,但我会说,开始认真想想这个问题吧。

So I don't have too much advice for anybody, but I would say start thinking about it.

我给 Giving Pledge 的人打电话时,有些人,七十来岁的人会跟我说,你知道,我还不想现在就想这个。

When I call people on the Giving Pledge, some of them, I'll get some 70-year-old and he says, you know, I don't want to think about it yet.

你知道,我总会跟他说,那你到九十五岁、膝上坐着个金发女郎的时候,会做出更好的决定吗?

You know, and I always tell him, well, are you going to make a better decision when you're 95 with some blonde on your lap?

之类的。

You know, or something.

其实几年前还真有人试过,你可能知道。

That actually was tried a few years ago, as you may know.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M257:47

没有,不过我想起,那个抱怨税制的人应该记得,他们最近改了遗产税规则。

No, but it does occur to me that that fellow who was complaining about the tax system should remember that they recently changed the estate tax rules.

所以,你可以给孩子留五百万美元之类的。

So, you can leave $5 million to your kids and so forth.

我觉得这是个很有建设性的法律修改。

I think that's a very constructive change in the law.

所以,我不觉得我们该假定,我们的政客总是会彻底发疯。

So I don't think we should assume that our politicians are always going to be totally crazy.

我觉得,那是个非常可取的变化。

That was a very desirable change, I think.

Charlie,下面有个关于 activism 的问题。

Charlie, a question about activism.

activism 还在持续升温,而且就像 Charlie 在二零一四年年会上说的那样,他觉得这件事不是在变好,而是在变得更糟。

Activism continues to grow, and as Charlie stated at the 2014 annual meeting, he sees it getting worse instead of getting better.
M1
M158:22

所以问题是,我们当然都希望 Charlie 和 Warren 能一直都在,但很遗憾,总会有一天,他们不再在这里管这家公司了。

So the question is, we hope that Charlie and Warren will both be around forever, but unfortunately there will be a time when they're no longer here to manage the store.

我不接受这种失败主义。

I reject such defeatism.

如果 Warren 按照他的遗产安排,在十年里把他的股份逐步捐给慈善机构,而 activists 又变得越来越有力量,那 Berkshire 在近期和更长远的未来,要怎么保护自己不受 activists 的影响?

If Warren is giving away his shares to charity over a 10-year period through his estate plan and activists become increasingly more powerful, how will Berkshire defend itself from activists in the near and far future?

另外,如果将来 Berkshire 被拆分了,而股东因此拿到相当可观的溢价,你们会把这看成一种失败吗?

And would you consider it a failure if Berkshire were broken up in the future and shareholders received a significant premium?

那要在什么样的溢价水平下,你们才会把它看成成功呢?

And for you to consider it a success, what would the premium need to be?

这个嘛,如果经营得当,拆分本身就不会带来什么溢价。

Well, if it's run right, there won't be a premium in breaking it up.

表面上看起来也许会像是那样。

It may look like it.

我的意思是,人们会说,子公司 A 单独拿出来能有二十倍市盈率,而整个公司现在只有十五倍;可如果你把那个二十倍的业务拆出去,剩下整个公司就不会还按十五倍来交易了。

I mean, people will say there's subsidiary A that would sell at 20 times earnings and the whole place is selling at 15, but the whole place won't sell at 15 if you spin off the one at 20.

我的意思是,就像我在年报里写的那样,把这些公司放在同一份企业报税表里,对 Berkshire 有很多好处。

I mean, as I laid out in the annual report, there are a lot of benefits to Berkshire in terms of having the companies in the same corporate tax return.

所以我觉得,不管从长期看还是中期看,各部分加起来的价值超过整体价值,这种情况都不太可能。

So I think it's unlikely that on any long-term basis or an intermediate-term basis that the value of the parts will be greater than the value of the whole.

对付 activism 最好的防线就是业绩,不过最近有太多钱涌进 activist funds,因为这类基金募资太容易了。

The best defense against activism is performance, but lately there's been so much money pouring into activist funds because it's been easy to raise money for that.

我的意思是,过去这几年,这一直是种很成功的管钱方式,于是机构资金就开始往里流,顾问也会推荐这一套。

I mean, it's been a successful way of handling money for the last few years, and institutional money then starts flowing into it, and the consultants recommend it.
M2
M260:12

对。

Yeah.
M1
M160:13

诸如此类吧。

And all of that sort of thing.

所以我得说,我现在看到的很多现象,都属于这种 activism。

And so I would say that much of what I see is activism now.

不管是他们盯上的公司类型,还是他们声称自己能做到什么,很多说法都已经很牵强了。

People are really reaching in terms of the kind of companies that they're talking about and the claims of what they can do and that sort of thing.

我觉得,最关键的一点是,如果你说的是在我的遗产处理完之后,我的股份会在十年里陆续分配出去,以及这些股份所带有的投票权,那我想,等这件事真的发生的时候,Berkshire 的市值很可能已经大到一个程度了,就算所有 activists 全都聚到一起,也做不了太多。

I think the biggest, you know, if you're talking about my shares getting dispensed over 10 years after my estate's settled and the voting power they have, and I think by the time that gets to be a reality, I think the market value of Berkshire is likely to be so great that even if all the activists gathered together, they wouldn't be able to do very much about it.

再过十年二十年,Berkshire 很可能真的会成为一个非常非常庞大的组织。

Berkshire is likely to really be a very, very large organization 10 or 20 years from now.
M2
M261:01

而且,Buffett 的超级投票权还会持续很长时间。

Besides, Buffett's super-voting power is going to last a long time.
M1
M161:04

会持续很长时间。

It lasts a long time.

对,我老有别的公司的朋友给我打电话,他们那边来了个 activist,他们就很担心。

Yeah, I always I've got these friends that call me from other companies, and they've got an activist, and they're worried about it.

我就跟他们说,干脆把他们送到 Berkshire 来吧。

I just tell them to send them over to Berkshire.

我们欢迎他们。

We'll welcome them.

我们巴不得他们来买我们的股票,因为他们折腾不出什么结果。

We'd love to have them buy our stock because they're not going to get anyplace.

而且这种情况会持续很久很久。

And that's going to be the situation for a long, long time.

我们就该成为那种别人可以把 activists 往这儿一甩的地方。

We should be a place where people can dump their activists.

Charlie,轮到你了。

Charlie, you're on.
M2
M261:32

我觉得有意思的是,过去在很多时候,大多数股票的卖价都远远低于它们的内在价值时,要看到一家美国公司去回购自家股票,是很少见的。

The thing that I find interesting is, in the old days when many, most stocks sold for way less than they were worth in terms of intrinsic value, it was very rare to find an American corporation buying the stock in.
M1
M161:45

对,没错。

Oh yeah.
M2
M261:45

而现在,很多情况下,激进投资者反而在催着公司大量回购股票,尽管这些股票卖得比它本身的价值还高。

Now, in many cases, the activists are urging corporations to buy the stock in heavily, even though it's selling for more than it's worth.

这不是一种建设性的行为,也不是一个值得欢迎的变化。

This is not a constructive activity, and it's not a desirable change.

对这些激进投资者来说,这也不是很负责任的做法。

And it's not a very responsible activity for the activists.
M1
M162:03

对于股票回购这么简单的一件事,大家写过的蠢话真是太多了。

There's been more stupid stuff written on such a simple activity as stock repurchase.

写出来的蠢话最多,做出来的蠢事也最多。

Most stupid stuff written and stupid stuff done.

我的意思是,在我看来,要不要回购自家股票,这是个非常简单的决定。

I mean, it's a very simple decision in my view as to whether you repurchase your shares.

你要是在满足了业务需要之后,而且你的股票卖价低于它的内在价值,那就回购。

You know, you repurchase them if you've taken care of the needs of the business and your stock is selling for less than it's intrinsically worth.

但我真不觉得还有什么能比这更简单。

But that I don't, I don't see how anything could be more simple.

如果你有一个合伙企业,某个合伙人想按这门生意价值的120%卖给你,你肯定会说,算了吧。

If you had a partnership and a partner wanted to sell out to you at 120% of what the business is worth, you'd say, you know, say forget it.

要是他愿意按它价值的80%卖给你,你当然会接。

And if you want to sell out to you at 80% of what it's worth, you'd take it.

这不复杂。

It's not complicated.

但人们在决定要不要回购股票时,脑子里掺进了太多别的动机。

But there's so many other motivations that have entered into people's minds about deciding whether to repurchase shares or not.

在很多情况下,这个讨论已经变得非常拧巴,也有点可笑。

It's gotten to be a very contorted and kind of silly discussion in many cases.

Charlie 说得对。

And Charlie is right.

你要是看看股票回购的历史,就会发现,股票便宜的时候,回购量会急剧下降;而股票价格已经充分反映价值的时候,回购往往又会大幅上升。

If you look at the history of share repurchases, you know, it falls off like crazy when stocks are cheap, and it tends to go up dramatically when stocks get fully priced.

但 Berkshire 不会这么做。

But it's not what we'll do at Berkshire.

在 Berkshire,眼下如果能按账面价值的120%,大把大把地买,我们会很乐意,因为我们知道它远远不止这个价。

At Berkshire, you know, we will presently, you know, we would love to buy it by the bushel basket at 120% of book because we know it's worth a lot more than that.

我们不知道还多多少,但我们知道它值的钱要多得多。

We don't know how much more, but we know it's worth a lot more.

而且这种机会并不常有,但要是真有机会,我们会大干一场。

And we don't get a chance to do that very often, but if we do get a chance, we'll do it big time.

但如果到了账面价值的200%,我们就不会买了,因为不值。

But we won't buy it at 200% of book because it isn't worth it.

这不是个复杂的问题,但我接触过很多管理层,他们宣布要回购 X 这么多,结果不管价格如何都照买。

And it's not a complicated question, but people that I've been around a lot of managements that announce they're going to buy X worth, and then they buy it regardless of price.

很多时候,价格是合理的,但要是不合理,他们似乎也不会停,好像也没人真想去阻止他们。

A lot of times the price makes sense, but if it doesn't, they don't seem to stop, and nobody tries to seem to want to stop them.
M2
M263:52

Charlie,你想补充吗?嗯,我完全同意你的看法。

Charlie, you want to? Well, I certainly agree with you.

我不觉得这是个很好的激进主义时代。

I don't think it's a great age, this age of activism.
M1
M164:02

你要展开说说吗?

You want to expand on that?
M2
M264:04

嗯,我很难想到有多少激进投资者是我愿意招进家门的。

Well, it's hard for me to think of many activists I want to marry into the family.
M1
M164:14

我最好在他点名之前打住。

I better stop before he names names.

好,Greg。

Okay, Greg.

Warren,American Express 是 Berkshire 的第三大股票持仓,多年来一直依靠强大的网络效应和它很有价值的品牌,持续创造经济利润。

Warren, American Express, which is Berkshire's third-largest stockholding, has relied on powerful network effects and its valuable brand to generate economic profits over the years.

它形成了一个良性循环:它聚集起来的持卡人群体对商户很有吸引力,所以商户愿意支付更高的交易手续费,而这些费用最后又拿来支持 American Express 持卡人的奖励计划和服务。

It has created a virtuous cycle, with its collection of cardholders being desirable to merchants who have been willing to pay higher transaction fees, with those fees ending up funding rewards programs and services for American Express's cardholders.

不过最近,竞争对手开始反过来利用这个模式对付这家公司,用越来越高水平的奖励和服务去争夺它的持卡人,同时向商户收取的费用又比 American Express 更低。

More recently, though, competitors have turned this model against the firm, targeting its cardholder base with ever-increasing levels of rewards and services, while charging merchants lower fees than American Express does.

而且在今年早些时候,Costco 结束了和这家公司长达十六年的合作,这也让它那种高端、独特的形象受到了一点打击;这一举动影响到了在外流通的 American Express 卡里每十张中的一张。

The company also saw its image of exclusivity take a bit of a hit earlier this year, when Costco ended a 16-year relationship with the firm, a move that affects 1 in 10 American Express cards in circulation.

还有监管因素,这也会影响今年和明年的业绩。

Regulation, and which will impact results this year and next.

在 interchange fees 受到限制、mobile payment 技术的增长和普及可能影响未来收入来源的情况下,再加上公司为了追求交易量而向更大众的市场下沉,这又可能削弱品牌,American Express 要怎么守住它的护城河?

With restrictions on interchange fees and the growth and acceptance of mobile payment technologies likely to impact future revenue streams, and moves by the firm to go downmarket in pursuit of transaction volume potentially diminishing the brand, how does American Express defend its moat?

这个方面,American Express 一直做得相当不错,尤其是在 Ken Chenault 掌舵的时候。

Well, American Express has been pretty good at that, and particularly when Ken Chenault's been running it.

支付这个领域会不断出现很多创新,也会受到各种不同方式的冲击。

The world of payments will be subject to lots of innovation and various modes of attack.

我认为 American Express 依然是一家非常特别的公司。而且就像我刚才说的,Ken 在提前预判很多趋势、并带着公司进入不同市场这件事上,做得非常出色。

I think that American Express is still a very special company, and like I say, Ken has done a sensational job in anticipating a lot of these trends and guiding it into different markets.

就像你刚才提到的,它其实已经相当成功地往 debit cards 这类更大众的业务延伸了,还有类似的方向。

As you mentioned, it's gone down into debit cards effectively and things of that sort.

我觉得 American Express 的持卡人忠诚度还是很高的。

I think there's a lot of loyalty with American Express cardholders.

我确实认为,proprietary card 的价值要高于 co-branded card,不过 Costco 的具体情况,我大概还是不该展开讲。

I do think a proprietary card is worth more than a co-branded card, but I think that I probably shouldn't get into the specifics of Costco.

我旁边就坐着一位 Costco 的董事。

I've got a Costco director sitting next to me.

不过我们对 American Express 很满意;当然,如果股价跌一点,他们每年拿四十亿到五十亿美元回购股票时能买到更多股份,那我们会更满意。

But we're very happy with American Express, but we'd be even happier if the stock goes down and the $4 or $5 billion they spend a year buying stock buys even more shares.
M2
M266:35

Charlie?

Charlie?

嗯,在他们竞争少一点的时候,我确实更喜欢它一点,不过现实就是这样。

Well, I liked it a little better when they had a little less competition, but that's life.

Dave?

Dave?
M1
M166:46

顺便说一句,这个你们会在 Berkshire 这五十年的历史里看到。

Incidentally, you'll find in this 50-year history of Berkshire.

American Express 在上世纪六十年代真是帮了我们大忙。

American Express did wonders for us back in the 1960s.

里面还提到一点历史:直到一九六五年,它都还是一只普通投资者也能接触到的股票,但直到一九六三年都没有人注意它。

And there's a little history in there on the fact that it was an accessible stock until 1965, which nobody paid any attention to until 1963.

不过,这家公司在适应变化这件事上有着非常惊人的历史。

But the company has an incredible history of adapting.

我是说,他们一开始就是一家快运公司,帮人运送行李箱和贵重物品。

I mean, they started out as an express company, moved trunks around and valuables around.

后来铁路出来了,也开始做同样的事情。

Then the railroad came along and started doing the same thing.

所以他们转去做 traveler's checks,把它当成一种在全球转移资金、非常方便的方式。

So they went to traveler's checks as a way to, a very handy way of moving money around the world.

再后来,credit card 出现了,Diners Club 在五十年代就出来了,这就威胁到了 traveler's checks。

And then the credit card came along, Diners Club came along in the 1950s, and that threatened the traveler's check.

于是他们又转进了当时所谓的 travel and entertainment card。

And then they moved into the travel and entertainment card, it was called then.

有意思的是,最先做这个的 Diners Club,也就是 Ralph Schneider 和 Al Bloomingdale,他们那张卡的定价,我记得是三美元。

And the interesting thing is that Diners Club, who was first, Ralph Schneider and Al Bloomingdale, priced their card at, as I remember, $3.

看起来他们好像马上就要把整个市场拿下了。

And they looked like they were sewing up the market.

然后 American Express 出手了,做了一件很有意思的事。

And American Express came along and did something very interesting.

我记得他们把那张卡定价在五美元,而且确实树立了更好的形象。

They priced their card, I think, at $5 and actually established a better image.

我是说,人们在饭桌上掏出自己的 American Express 卡时,看起来就像 J.P. Morgan 一样。

I mean, people would pull out their American Express card at a dinner table, they looked like J.P. Morgan.

而那个掏出 Diners Club 卡的人,那张卡上有一大堆花里胡哨的东西。

And the guy that pulled out a Diners Club card had a whole bunch of flashy things on it.

他看起来就像那种在报销账户上做手脚的人,或者差不多那一类人。

He looked like a guy who was kiting his expense account or something of the sort.

所以你拿着 American Express 卡时,就会自然而然觉得自己是个更重要的人。

So you just automatically felt like a more important person with your American Express card.

他们一直都非常灵活,也非常聪明,尤其是近些年在 Ken 的带领下,在应对各种挑战方面做得特别好。

They have been very nimble and very smart, and particularly in recent years under Ken, in terms of meeting all kinds of challenges.

我觉得他们未来还会有很多挑战,不过我们持有这家公司百分之十五的股份,我非常高兴。

I think they'll have plenty of challenges in the future, and I'm delighted we own 15% of the company.

我叫 Chang,来自 South Korea 的 Seoul。

My name is Chang, originally from Seoul, South Korea.

我在 California 的 Los Angeles 工作。

I work in Los Angeles, California.

我已经去过二十七个以上的国家旅行,去年我还在 Belize City 当地的一所小学教过一堂金融素养课。

I've been traveling to more than 27 countries, and last year I taught a financial literacy lesson in one of the local elementary schools in Belize City.

今天我们在这里谈的是投资和资本市场,但发展中国家的年幼学生,他们不知道怎么存钱,也不知道利息这个概念。

Today here we're talking about investments and capital markets, but young students in developing countries, they don't know how to save money or they don't know the concept of interest.

所以,为了克服这些教育上的挑战。

So in order to overcome the educational challenges.

我想给优秀的美国人提供做志愿者的机会,让他们在旅行的时候去 South America 的学校教书,帮助解决这个问题。

I would like to provide volunteer opportunities to talented Americans to teach in South American schools to overcome the challenge while they're traveling.

所以,您觉得我的计划怎么样,或者您有什么建议吗?

So what do you think about my plan, or do you have any advice?

谢谢。

Thank you.

Charlie,你有什么建议吗?

Charlie, do you have any advice?
M2
M269:20

嗯,我跟我一些亲戚做这件事都失败了,所以我不觉得我能让 South America 变得更好。

Well, I failed in this activity with some of my relatives, so I don't think I can improve South America.

不,我觉得如果你连怎么存钱都不知道,那我也帮不了你。

No, I think if you don't know how to save, I can't help you.
M1
M169:39

不是,不过重要的是要尽早养成好习惯。

No, but the important thing is to get good habits early on.
M2
M269:43

对。

Yeah.
M1
M169:44

我是说,真的,你知道,有人说过,习惯的锁链一开始轻得让人感觉不到,等到重到挣不断的时候就太晚了。

I mean, you really, you know, someone said, the chains of habit are too light to be felt until they're too heavy to be broken.

而习惯真的会让你的人生大不一样。

And habits really make an enormous difference in your life.

所以 Andy 和 Amy Heyward 推出了 Secret Millionaires Club,我也稍微帮了一点忙。

So Andy and Amy Heyward have developed the Secret Millionaires Club, which I've helped out with a little.

我们的目标是,通过一种喜剧系列的形式,用有趣的方式把好习惯传达给小孩子们。

And our goal is to, in an entertaining way, present good habits to young kids through a kind of a comedy series.

我觉得它其实效果相当不错。

And I think it's actually having a pretty good effect.

再过几天,我们会在 Omaha 这里迎来八位入围决赛的孩子,他们来自全国各地,而且都已经自己做起了生意。

And here in a few days, we're going to have a, here in Omaha, we're going to have 8 finalists and young kids from around the country that have developed businesses of their own.

这些孩子总是让我印象非常深刻。

And I'm always enormously impressed with these kids.

但是,无论是你自己养成好习惯,还是很早就鼓励孩子在金钱方面养成好习惯,这都可能改变他们的一生。

But the importance of developing good habits yourself or encouraging good habits in your children very early on, in respect to money can change their lives.

而且,你知道,我大学毕业的时候手上已经有九千到一万美元的积蓄了,而我结婚很早,也很快就有了孩子。

And, you know, I was $9,000 or $10,000 ahead when I got out of college, and I got married young and had kids very fast.

如果我当时没有那个起点,我的人生会完全不一样。

And if I hadn't had that start, my life would've been vastly different.

所以在培养好的理财习惯这件事上,越早开始越好。

So you can't start young enough on working on good money habits.

而且我确实是这么想的。

And I do think that I do.

我觉得 Secret Millionaires Club 非常好,不过也可能还有很多别的好办法,可以把这些道理教给大家。

I think the Secret Millionaires Club is very good, but there could be lots of other good ways of teaching those lessons.

Buffett 先生、Munger 先生,你们好。

Hi, Mr. Buffett and Munger.

非常高兴来到这里。

Very excited to be here.

我叫 Liu Yu,也来自中国上海。

My name is Liu Yu, also from Shanghai, China.

因为我现在在一家给中国高净值人群提供财富管理服务的公司工作。这家公司叫 Noah,名字来自 Noah's Ark,在 NYSE 上市。

Because now I'm in a company providing wealth management to high net worth individuals in China. The company name is Noah, from Noah's Ark, listed on the NYSE.

你们二位都是我的偶像。

You two are my idols.

你们保持得这么年轻、这么有活力、思维这么敏捷的秘诀是什么?

What's your secret of keeping so young, so energetic, and so quick?

请别说是因为 Coca-Cola。

Please don't say because of Coca-Cola.

还有人说,老爷子搞不懂 internet。

And someone said that old papa could not understand the internet.

但我不相信。

But I don't believe that.

你们怎么看这件事?

What's your opinion?

你们以后会不会更关注 internet?

Will you pay more attention to the internet?

能不能请两位先生都回答一下我的问题?

Could I invite both gentlemen to answer my question?

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

Charlie,我刚才没全听清。

Charlie, I didn't get all of it.

所以你——

So you—.
M2
M272:17

嗯,他问的是,我们会不会用 internet?

Well, he asked, are we going to be using the internet?

跟我比起来,Warren 算是个 internet 重度用户,而且——

Warren is a big internet user compared to me, and—.
M1
M172:28

不过我很喜欢它。

But I love it.
M2
M272:30

他还在上面打桥牌。

He plays bridge on it.
M1
M172:32

对,我还会用很多别的——我会——我会上网搜索。

Yeah, I use a lot of other—I lose—I use search.

我,我,这对我的生活来说是个巨大的变化,而且一年差不多只花我一百美元。

I, I, it, it's, it's been a huge change in my life, and it cost me $100 a year or something like that.

我是说,如果非要我在放弃飞机和放弃 internet 之间选一个的话——飞机一年要花我一百五十万美元,internet 一年只要一百美元——你知道,我两个都不想放弃,但真要选的话,我会放弃飞机。

I mean, if I had to give up the plane or I had to give up the internet—the plane cost me $1.5 million a year, the internet cost me $100 a year—you know, I wouldn't want to give up either one of them, but I'd give up the plane.

对。

Yeah.

有意思。

Interesting.

不过——

But are—.

Charlie 这两个都放弃了。

Charlie's given up both.
M2
M273:05

我们以后会不会在这方面做得更多?

Are we going to be doing more?

而且我觉得,大家都会越来越多地在互联网上做事。

And I think everybody's going to be doing more things on the internet.

它的重要性正在不断上升。

It is growing in importance.

所以,不管你喜不喜欢,我们都被拖进了现代现实。

And so, like it or not, we're dragged into modern reality.
M1
M173:20

听起来他不像是喜欢,是吧?

Doesn't sound like he likes it, does it?
M2
M273:21

不,我不喜欢。

No, I don't like it.

我不喜欢一心多用。

I don't like multitasking.

我看见这些人同时做三件事,我就想,天哪,那种思考方式真糟糕。

I see these people doing three things at once, and I think, God, what a terrible way that is to think.

我笨到必须花很长时间认真想一件事,而靠一心多用走向辉煌这种念头,我从来没想到过。

I am so stupid that I have to think hard about a thing for a long time, and the idea of multitasking my way to glory has never occurred to me.

但不管怎么说,互联网已经来了,而且会越来越重要,大家都会越来越多地去想它、去做更多相关的事,不管你喜不喜欢。

But at any rate, the internet is here, and it's going to be more and more important, and everybody's going to think more about it and do more about it, like it or not.

当然,年轻人比我们更容易使用它。

And of course, the younger people are way more prone to use it than we are.

不过,Berkshire 这边,你们办公室里现在有多少台 Bloomberg 终端?

But Berkshire, you have what, how many Bloombergs now in the office?
M1
M174:07

对,你们有两三台。

Yeah, you have 2 or 3.

Mark,我不知道。

Mark, I don't know.

他们不跟我说这些。

They don't tell me about them.

我一进屋的时候,他们还会把它们藏起来。

They sort of hide them when I come in the room.
M2
M274:16

不管怎么说,我们已经进入现代世界了。

At any rate, we're into the modern world.
M1
M174:19

Mark Cranberg 跟我说,我们有三个,不过等我回办公室以后,我们会再重新评估一下这个情况。

We have — Mark Cranberg tells me we have 3, but we'll reevaluate that situation when I get back to the office.

什么?

What's that?

我们没为其中一个付钱。

We're not paying for one.

哦,我们没为其中一个付钱。

Oh, we're not paying for one.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

看看我们现在能不能为两个付钱。

Let's see if we can now pay for 2.

现在,说到互联网,它已经改变了我们很多业务。

Now, the internet, and it's changed many of our businesses.

我的意思是,它把 GEICO 的业务改变得非常非常大,而且对所有业务都造成了或多或少的影响。

I mean, it's changed GEICO's business very, very dramatically, and it affects them all to one degree or another.

这让我觉得很惊讶。

It's amazing to me.

我的意思是,人们常常对美国很悲观。

I mean, people get pessimistic about America.

想想过去二十年或者二十五年,光是在互联网这件事上,二十年间它就把你的生活改变得多么彻底。

Just think in the last 20 or 25 years, well, just 20 years on the internet, how dramatically it's changed your life.

这还远没结束。

It's not over yet.

接下来还会发生各种各样的事情,让生活变得更好。

There's all kinds of things that are going to happen to make life better.

Charlie 也许不觉得互联网让生活变得更好了,但当我想到,在雪天里把另外三个家伙凑到我家来打 bridge 得多费劲;再想想只要我把它一打开,十到二十秒内就能把我在 San Francisco 的搭档、另外两个朋友等等都拉进来,我就觉得这个世界是进步了。

And Charlie may not think the internet makes life better, but when I compare trying to round up 3 other guys on a snowy day to come over to my house to play bridge versus snapping the thing on and having my partner in San Francisco there and 2 other friends and so on, and 10 or 20 seconds, I think the world has improved.

谢谢你接受我的提问。

Thank you for taking my question.

我叫 Brandon Chin。

My name is Brandon Chin.

我来自台湾台北。

I'm from Taipei, Taiwan.

我的问题是,中国正在经历一系列结构性变化。

My question is, China is undergoing a number of structural changes.

你会怎么——。

What do you—.

当你把脉中国经济的时候,你读出了什么,又会给出什么建议?

When you take the pulse of the Chinese economy, what do you read and what advice would you give?

谢谢。

Thank you.

Charlie 才是中国专家。

Charlie's the China expert.

我觉得中国在未来几年会发展得很好。我非常看好中国正在发生的一切。

I think China is going to do very fine over a period of years. I'm a big fan for what's happening in China.
M2
M276:12

事实上,我刚刚订做了一尊 Lee Kuan Yew 的胸像,他是新加坡已故的前总理,因为我觉得他对先把新加坡治理好、后来又影响中国,贡献太大了。

And as a matter of fact, I've just ordered, prepared a bust of Lee Kuan Yew, the recently deceased prime minister of, ex-prime minister of Singapore, because I think he's contributed so much to fixing first Singapore and then China.

Lee Kuan Yew 在新加坡做的一件事,就是遏制腐败,甚至把他的一些亲密朋友都撤了职。

And one of the things Lee Kuan Yew did in Singapore was to stop the corruption, including cashiering some of his close friends.

中国现在也在这么做。

And China's doing the same thing.

我觉得这是我很久很久以来见过一个大国做出的最聪明的事。

And I consider it the smartest damn thing I've seen a big country do in a long, long time.

我觉得,如果最上面的政治领导人都是贪腐分子,就很难树立正确的榜样。

And I think that it's hard to set the proper example if the leading political rulers are kleptocrats.

你知道,你不想让一帮窃贼来管你。

You know, you don't want to be run by a den of thieves.

你要的是负责的人。

You want responsible people.

Lee Kuan Yew 的做法是,大幅提高公务员待遇,并且招募非常优秀的人才。

And what Lee Kuan Yew did is he paid the civil servants way better and recruited very good people.

他就是建立了一个更好的制度。

And he just created a better system.

当然,中国也在广泛效仿他。

And of course, China is widely copying him.

他们这么做是件很棒的事。

And it's a wonderful thing they're doing.

所以,我对中国现在的局面非常看好,而且我觉得这很可能会成功。

So I'm very high on what's going on in China, and I think it's very likely to work.

他们实际上已经枪毙了几个人。

They've actually shot a few people.

这一下真的能让大家注意起来。

That really gets people's attention.
M1
M177:39

现在我们开始听到一些实在的建议了。

Now we're starting to get some practical advice here.

中国在过去四十年左右发生的事情,在我看来简直是个奇迹。

What has happened in China over the last 40 or so years, I mean, it just strikes me as just totally miraculous.

我不认为——我本来不会相信,一个国家可以走得这么远、这么快,尤其是像中国这么大的国家,走得这么远、这么快。

I don't think— I would not have believed that a country could move so far so fast, a country that size particularly, so far so fast.

而且——。

And it's been—.
M2
M278:06

世界历史上,从来没有一个这么大的国家走得这么远。

It never happened before in the history of the world that a company so big had come so far.

我小时候,中国 80% 的人口都不识字,还困在靠种地勉强糊口的农业社会里。

When I was a little boy, 80% of the population of China was illiterate and mired in subsistence poverty and agriculture.

你现在想想,他们还经历过那些可怕的战争,可你看看他们现在。

Now just think, and they've been through horrible wars, and look at them.

这是地球历史上最了不起的成就之一,少数几个人对此做出了极其重大的贡献,其中就包括新加坡这位中国裔政治人物。

It's one of the most remarkable achievements in the history of the earth, and a few people made an extreme contribution to it, including this Chinese politician in Singapore.

而且我得说,Communist Party 在模仿 Lee Kuan Yew 这件事上,很值得肯定。

And I give the Communist Party a lot of credit for copying Lee Kuan Yew.

Berkshire 做的也就是这样,去模仿那些对的人。

That's all Berkshire does is copy the right people.
F1
F178:52

对。

Yeah.
M1
M178:52

一七九零年,美国有四百万人口。

In 1790, the United States had 4 million people.

中国有两亿九千万人口。

China had 290 million people.

他们和我们一样聪明。

They were just as smart as we were.

他们一样勤奋,气候也差不多,土壤也差不多。

They worked as hard, similar climate, similar soil.

可是在接近两百年的时间里,美国靠着这四百万人,发展到占全球 GDP 将近百分之二十五,而中国几乎没有什么起色。

And for 200, close to 200 years, you know, the United States went with those 4 million people to close to 25% of the world's GDP, and China really didn't go anyplace.

然后还是这些人,在四十年里做到了一切,而且他们现在也并不比四十年前更努力。

And then those same people in 40 years, and they're not working harder now than they were 40 years ago.

就基本智力而言,他们现在也并不比四十年前更聪明。

They're not smarter now than they were 40 years ago in terms of the basic intelligence.

但你看看他们取得了多大的成就。

And just look at what's been accomplished.

我是说,这确实说明了,一旦你找到一种能释放人类潜力的制度,人能做到什么程度。

I mean, it does show you the human potential when you find a system that unleashes it.

我们在两百多年前找到了这样一种能释放人类潜力的制度,而他们是在四五十年前找到了。

And we found a system that unleashed human potential a couple hundred years ago, and they found a system that unleashed human potential 40 or 50 years ago.

你看到这样的例子,就不能不承认,它一定会对未来发生的事情产生强大的影响。

And when you see that example, it has to have a powerful effect on what happens in the future.

最惊人的就是,几百年来,这些人的人生基本都没有什么变化,然后一下子就全面爆发了。

And it's just amazing that you could have people go nowhere basically in their lives for centuries and then it just explodes.

看到这一切,我真的非常震撼。

And it just blows me away to see it.

你会发现,还是同样的人,但他们找到了释放自己潜力的方法,我为他们感到高兴。

And you make it— it's the same human beings, but they've found a way to unlock their potential, and I congratulate them for it.

正如 Charlie 刚才说的,在可预见的未来,中国和美国都会是超级大国。

And as Charlie said earlier, China and the United States are going to be the superpowers for as far as the eye can see.

而且在我看来,中国人找到了释放自己潜力的方法,这对我们确实是件好事。

And it is really good for us, in my view, that the Chinese have found a way to unlock their potential.

我觉得,对两个都拥有核武器的国家来说,在这样的世界里,至关重要的是要想办法看到彼此的长处,而不是盯着彼此的缺点。

And I think it's imperative for two countries with nuclear weapons that in this kind of world that they figure out ways to see the virtues in each other rather than the flaws.

我们和中国人之间当然会有很多分歧,他们对我们也一样,但我们应该记住,总体来说,只要对方发展得好,我们双方都会过得更好。

We'll have plenty of disagreements with the Chinese and they will with us, but we ought to remember that on balance, we're both better off if the other one's doing well.

这只是我个人的看法。

That's just my own view.

好。

Okay.

请三号提问点发言。

Station 3, please.

你好,我叫 Arthur。

Hi, my name is Arthur.

我来自 Los Angeles。

I'm from Los Angeles.

感谢你们邀请我们来到你们的家乡。

I wanted to thank you for having us in your hometown.

这几天我们一直在听你们讲自己在商业上的过人本事,还有你们取得的各种成功。

And we've all been listening to your business prowess and all your successes.

毫无疑问,你们非常擅长商业和金融,而且也乐在其中。但你们也谈过收入不平等、要捐出自己百分之九十九的财富这些事,这让我觉得,驱动你们的恐怕不只是积累财富或者金钱收益。

There's no question that you're good at business and finance and have fun doing it, but there are comments that you've made on income inequality, giving away 99% of your wealth, and I'm led to believe that you're motivated by more than just amassing wealth or financial gains.

那我想谈谈你的核心价值观,问问你最看重什么,为什么。

So I'd like to speak to your value core and ask what matters to you most and why.

Charlie,你最看重什么?

Charlie, what matters to you most?
M2
M281:57

嗯,我想我有个不太走运的导向机制。

Well, I think that I had an unfortunate channeling device.

我在把事情想明白这方面,比别的什么都强。

I was better at figuring things out than I was at everything else.

我不可能当上电影明星、运动员、演员之类的人物。

I was never going to succeed as a movie star or as an athlete or as an actor or something.

而且我很早就有了这个想法,部分是受家里影响,尤其是我外公,我是按他的名字取的名,他也有同样的想法:你真正的主要责任,就是尽可能把自己变得理性。

And I early got the idea that, partly from my family, my grandfather in particular, whose name I bore, had the same idea, that really your main duty is to become as rational as you could possibly be.

Judge Munger、我父亲还有其他人,对理性简直是顶礼膜拜。

Rationality was just totally worshipped by Judge Munger and my father and others.

而且因为我在这方面很强,别的方面又不行,所以我就被引到了一条适合我的路上。

And since I was good at that and no good at anything else, I was steered in something that worked well for me.

但我确实认为,理性是一种道德义务。

But I do think rationality is a moral duty.

这就是我喜欢 Confucius 的原因。

That's the reason I like Confucius.

早在那么多年前,他就有同样的想法。

He had the same idea all those years ago.

所以,我觉得 Berkshire 某种程度上就是理性的圣殿。

And so, and I think Berkshire is sort of a temple of rationality.

在 Berkshire,人们真正欣赏的是那种能看清事物本来面目的人。

What's really admired around Berkshire is somebody who sees it the way it is.

Warren,你同意吧?

Wouldn't you agree with that, Warren?

对,最重要的是这个,比干劲还重要。

Yeah, more than anything, more than energy.
M1
M183:20

你最好就按它本来的样子去看。

You better see it the way it is.
M2
M283:21

对。

Yeah.
M1
M183:22

你最好就按它本来的样子去看。

You better see it the way it is.
M2
M283:24

你就是按它本来的样子去看。

You see it the way it is.

所以我就是这么做的。

And so that's the way I did it.

但这已经不只是积累财富的一种技巧了。

But that goes beyond a technique for amassing wealth.

对我来说,那是一条道德原则。

To me, that's a moral principle.

我觉得,如果你本可以很容易消除无知,却还是把它留着,那就不光彩。

I think if you have some easily removable ignorance and keep it, it's dishonorable.

我不觉得这只是个错误,或者只是不用心。

I don't think it's just a mistake or a lack of diligence.

勤奋。

Diligence.

我觉得,明明可以没那么蠢,却还要一直保持那么蠢,这是不光彩的。

I think it's dishonorable to stay stupider than you have to be.

所以这就是我的信条。

And so that's my ethos.

而且我觉得你得慷慨,因为不慷慨简直太蠢了。

And I think you have to be generous because it's crazy not to be.

我们是群居动物,跟别人是连在一起的。

We're a social animal and we're tied to other people.
M1
M184:11

嗯,我想说,这听起来不太高尚,但我现在最看重的,可能已经有一段时间了,我是说,有些事情很重要,可你其实什么也做不了,我是说,像健康,还有你身边人的健康,等等。

Well, I would say it doesn't sound very noble, but what matters to me most now, and probably has for some time, I mean, there are things that matter that you can't do anything about, I mean, in terms of health and the health of those around you and all of that.

但其实,对我来说最重要的是 Berkshire 表现好。

But actually, what matters to me most is that Berkshire does well.

基本上,我现在的处境是,我们大概已经有一百万甚至更多的人和我们有关,而碰巧这件事又让我特别享受,所以我就能给这个行为找个理由。

Basically, I'm in a position where we've probably got a million or more people that are involved with us, and it just so happens that it's enormously enjoyable to me, so I can rationalize the activity.

但如果 Berkshire 表现不好,我不会开心。

But I would not be happy if Berkshire were doing poorly.

这并不是说股价下跌,或者经济某一年不好,我就会在意;但如果我觉得我们没有每年都在打造比上一年更好的东西,我就不会开心。

That doesn't mean whether the stock goes down or whether the economy has a bad year, but if I felt that we weren't building something every year that was better than what we had the year before, I would not be happy.

而且,你知道,我从中得到的乐趣特别大,还能和我喜欢的人一起工作。

And, you know, I get this enormous fun out of it, and I get to work with people I like.
M2
M285:13

不过这一点很重要。

But that's very important.

说到底,像 Warren 或我这样的人,自己亏一点钱很容易,因为那没那么要紧,但我们最讨厌亏别人的钱。

The truth of the matter is, it's easy for somebody like Warren or me to lose a little of our own money because it doesn't matter that much, but we hate losing somebody else's.

而这种态度,在一个文明社会里是很值得有的。

And that's a very desirable attitude to have in a civilization.

你不也讨厌亏 Berkshire 的钱吗?

Don't you hate losing Berkshire money?
M1
M185:35

对,那会是唯一会让我夜里睡不着的事。

Yeah, it would, that would be the only thing that would keep me up at night.

对,对,对。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

我们不会那么做。

We won't do it.

显然,我们可以在个别投资上亏钱。

We can lose money on individual things, obviously.

经济有不好的年份,股市也可能有大幅下跌的年份。

We can have bad years in the economy, and we can have years where the stock market goes down a lot.

这一点都不会困扰我。

That doesn't bother me in the least.

让我烦的是,如果我做了什么,真的让 Berkshire 的长期价值受损,那我那天就会很不好受。

What bothers me is if I do something that actually costs Berkshire in terms of its long-term value, then I feel like, you know, I do not feel good about life on that day.

不过幸运的是,我们大多数时候都能避免这种事。

But we can avoid most of that, fortunately.

我们的确可以挑选出手的时机。

We do get to pick our spots.

在这方面,我们很幸运。

We're very fortunate in that respect.
M2
M286:07

嗯,好医生也不喜欢病人死在手术台上,你知道的。

Well, a good doctor doesn't like it when the patient dies on the table either, you know.

这不是什么新想法。

Not a new thought.
M1
M186:17

好,我们到第六站。

Okay, let's go to station 6.

Warren 和 Charlie,下午好。

Good afternoon, Warren and Charlie.

祝贺你们五十周年。

Congrats on 50 years.

我叫 Jim,来自 New York 的 Brooklyn。

My name is Jim, and I'm from Brooklyn, New York.

这算是对刚才那个问题的延伸。

This is kind of a follow-on to a recent question.

在 Berkshire Hathaway 之前,你们作为投资者和基金经理,就已经在投资上很成功了。

You both had success in investing even before Berkshire Hathaway as investors and as fund managers.

大家都知道你们非常遵循 Graham 的教导,但像 Walter Schloss 和他儿子这样的人,也用类似的理念取得了成功,只是策略不同。

While it's well known you closely followed Graham's teachings, others like Walter Schloss and his son also had success with similar teachings yet different strategies.

你们会把早年用小额资金取得成功的最重要原因归结为什么?如果今天回头看,你们可能会怎么改进自己在这些小额资金上的策略?

What would you cite as the most important reason for your early success with small amounts of capital, and given hindsight today, what might you have done to improve your strategy with these small funds?

嗯,我有一位很棒的老师。

Yeah, well, I had a great teacher.

我有异常集中的专注力,也有那种能帮我成为投资者的合适情绪特质。

I had exceptional focus, and I had the right sort of emotional qualities that would help me in being an investor.

我喜欢这场游戏。

I enjoyed the game.

我的意思是,它难度刚刚好,够有意思,但又没难到超出人们理解它的能力。

I mean, it's just about hard enough to be interesting, but not so hard as to be beyond the capabilities of people understanding it.

这大概就是这场游戏的样子。

And that's kind of the way this game is.

我的意思是,它不像 Henry Singleton 会碰到的那类问题那么难。

I mean, it's not like Henry Singleton, kind of questions he took on.

其实这是一场挺简单的游戏,但它确实需要一定的情绪稳定性。

It's actually a pretty easy game, and it does require a certain emotional stability.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且我是一头扎进去,拼命干。

And I went at it hammer and tongs.

我把手册什么的都看了一遍,但我做的时候是很享受的。

I went through the manuals and everything, but I was enjoying it when I did it.

就像我说的,我从7岁到大概19岁那段时间,一直都是这么起步的。

And like I say, I started out between ages 7 and about 19.

我那时也有同样的热情,但其实并没有什么指导原则。

I had that same enthusiasm, but I didn't really have any guiding principle.

然后我接触到了 The Intelligent Investor 和 Ben Graham。

And then I ran into The Intelligent Investor and Ben Graham.

到了那时候,我就能把所有这些精力和热情都用起来了,而且我有了一套非常有道理、完全说得通、我也发现自己可以运用的理念。

And then at that point, I was able to take all this energy and everything, enthusiasm for it, and now I had a philosophy that made a lot of sense, total sense, and I found that I could employ.

所以这个游戏就变得更有意思了,但其实也就这么简单,并没有更复杂。

And so the game became even more fun, but it wasn't really more complicated than that.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M288:41

嗯,我没什么要补充的。

Well, I don't have anything to add.

我确实觉得,如果一个人有那种性情,又因为喜欢、因为感兴趣而一直坚持下去,这就是个简单的游戏。

I do think that it's an easy game if somebody has the temperament for it and keeps at it because he likes it and is interested in it.

我有一个 Warren 没那么明显的问题。

I have a problem that Warren has less of.

我不太喜欢自己被当成一个榜样,给那些想靠精明地买入并被动持有证券来发财的人看。

I don't like being too much of an example to people who want to get rich by being shrewd and buying and passively holding securities.

我不觉得那样的人生就够了。

I don't think that's enough of a life.

如果你靠比别人更精明,从生活里硬生生夺来一笔财富,再去买那些小纸片,我不觉得这跟你拿走的东西相比,算是足够的付出。

If you wrest a fortune from life by being shrewder than other people and buying little pieces of paper, I don't think that's an adequate contribution in exchange for what you're taking.

所以,如果你是在替捐赠基金、养老金基金,或者你的亲戚之类的人投资这些钱,我会更喜欢。

So, so I like it when you're investing money for an endowment or a pension fund or your relatives or something.

但我从来都不觉得,仅仅靠精明地挑股票,然后被动持有它们,就算是一种足够的人生。

But I never considered it enough of a life to merely be shrewd in picking stocks and passively holding them.
M1
M189:42

是啊,对我来说,经营 Berkshire 比经营 Buffett Partnership,或者只是管理一个投资基金,要有意思得多,得多。

Yeah, running Berkshire has been far, far more fun than running, in my case, Buffett Partnership, or just an investment fund.

我的意思是,那个——。

I mean, that—.
M2
M289:53

你要是去管那个合伙企业,就不像个男人了。

You'd be less of a man if you'd run that partnership.
M1
M189:56

那会是很疯狂的一种活法。

It'd be a crazy way to go through life.
M2
M289:57

嗯。

Yeah.
M1
M189:58

我的意思是,你知道,Berkshire 真是让人满足得多,得多。

I mean, it's just, you know, Berkshire is incredibly more satisfying.
M2
M290:05

所以如果你很擅长只投资自己的钱,我希望你能慢慢转去做点更大的事。

So if you're good at just investing your own money, I hope you'll morph into doing something more.
M1
M190:14

好,我们先做第 8 个,然后就——然后我们再进入年度股东大会。

Okay, we'll do 8, and then that'll— then we'll move on to the annual meeting.
已剔除 1 处广告(点击展开查看)
M1
M148:37广告 · 已剔除

I forgot to mention, I was supposed to mention too that we didn't want to put it on sale earlier because it would have given away the movie, but we do have Berkshire Bomber underwear out there, or sweatshirts, or whatever it may be.