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2005年股东大会 · 伯克希尔旗下不赚钱的子公司,巴菲特为何不选择卖出?

43 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:56
M1
M10:00

大家好,我是 Rory Johnson。

Hello, I'm Rory Johnson.

我来自英国的 Suffolk。

I'm from Suffolk in the UK.

你们在评估投资到底算不算成功的时候,除了纯粹的财务回报之外,还有没有,或者说会不会用到其他合适的标准?

Do you have, or are there any appropriate criteria beyond purely financial returns in assessing the success or otherwise of your investments?
M2
M20:20

这个嘛,我会说,我们会看取得的财务回报,而且这些回报还得是以我们希望的方式取得的,这才决定了我们这项投入是不是一个明智的决策。

Well, I would say that I would say that the financial returns achieved in a way that we want them to be achieved are the determinant of whether we've made an intelligent commitment.

不过,如果一家公司没有达到我们最初的预期,我们也不会就把它处理掉。

Now, we don't get rid of companies that don't meet our original expectations.

我们年报后面有一部分讲经济原则,我忘了具体是哪一条了,应该在比较靠后的位置。我们在那里说过——Charlie 和我有个小毛病,商学院会说这是个错误。就是如果我们手里有一家表现不佳的企业,而把它卖掉、把钱投到别处能拿到更高回报,我们也不会这么做。

There's a section in the back of our annual report on the economic principles, and I forget which one it is, it's toward the end, but we say that— Charlie and I have this quirk which business schools would teach is a mistake, in that if we have a business that's underperforming and we could sell it and achieve greater returns someplace else, we don't do it.

我们会说,如果一门生意注定会永久性亏钱,那我们就会把它处理掉。

We say that if a business is going to permanently lose money, we'll get rid of it.

如果它在一段时间里有严重的劳工问题,我们也可能会把它处理掉;但我们不会搞那种我们所说的 gin rummy 式管理,就是抓一张牌,再丢一张牌。

If it has major labor problems over a period of time, we might get rid of it, but we are not going to engage in what we call gin rummy-type management, where we pick up one card and discard another.

所以,如果一门生意让我们失望了,但我们喜欢那里的团队,而且不是因为劳工问题,也不需要我们不停地往里面投钱,那我们就会继续和它走下去。哪怕商学院理论和管理理论都会说,赶紧卖掉,去做别的。

And so we will not— if a business has been disappointing to us, but we like the people there, and we're not having— not because of labor problems, and we're not going to have to put money in incessantly, we will stay with it when business school theory and management theory would say get rid of it and do something else.

我们并不是不同意那些这么做的人。

We don't disagree with the people that do it that way.

只是我们不想用那种方式过日子。

It's just that we don't want to live our lives that way.

而且就算 Berkshire 百分之百都是我们自己的,我们也不会那么做。

And if we owned 100% of Berkshire, we wouldn't do it that way.

我们只是希望股东知道,我们就是有这样一种思维方式。因为这种态度,回报可能会稍微不是最优,但我们就是会这么做。

And we don't— we just, we want the shareholders to know that we have this mindset that may produce slightly suboptimal returns because of our attitude, but that's the way we're going to play it.

而且我们会提前告诉大家,我们就是会这么做。

And we tell people ahead of time that that's the way we're going to play it.

我们就是会这么做。

That's the way we're going to play it.

我们喜欢和现在这些经理人共事,哪怕有些人正顶着逆风。

We like being associated with the managers that we are, even the ones that are facing headwinds.

我的意思是,某种程度上,你甚至会更认同那些正面对逆风的人,因为在非常艰难的环境下,他们干得真的非常出色。

I mean, but in a sense, you almost identify more with the ones that are facing headwinds because they're doing a hell of a job under very tough conditions.

而且每一个商业决策或者投资决策,都不可能完美奏效;有些企业也会碰上意料之外的冲击。

And every business decision or investment decision isn't going to work out perfectly, and some businesses are going to run into unexpected surprises.

但那些当初和我们一起走进来的人,在这种时候一直都没有离开我们;我们的态度就是,我们也会陪他们一起扛。

But the people that have gone in with us have stuck with us in times like that, and our attitude is we'll stick with them.

所以,我会说,在我们买下企业之后,那些人怎么和我们相处、怎么做事,是我们看待整个关系时一个很重要的部分,当然也包括最终实现的回报。

So to the— I would say that how the people behave with us after we buy the business is an important part of how we feel about, you know, the whole relationship, as well as the returns achieved.
M3
M33:07

Charlie?

Charlie?

对,我完全同意。

Yeah, I think exactly.

这个问题某种程度上也是在问:是不是有些生意,尽管本身非常好,但我们也不会把它放进 Berkshire,当成子公司?

Asking in part, are there some businesses we won't have as subsidiaries in Berkshire even though they're wonderful businesses?

换句话说,我们是不是会基于道德层面的考虑,放弃一些商业机会?

In other words, are we rejecting some business opportunities on moral grounds?
M2
M23:24

对,这个嘛,我们以前的会议里提到过一个,我们当时就是基于这个原因没做。

Yeah, well, we've referred in past meetings to one we did on that basis.

有些公司的股票我们会持有,但我们并不想把整家公司都买下来。

We will own stocks of companies where we wouldn't want to own the whole business.

我的意思是,呃,这里面的逻辑未必完全严丝合缝,但比如说,持有一家香烟公司的股票,我们是不会有问题的。

I mean, I, you know, you can, uh, I'm not sure that the logic is perfect on that, but we would not have trouble owning stock in a cigarette company.

但我们不想自己去生产香烟。

We wouldn't want to manufacture cigarettes.

我们也许会持有一家卖香烟的零售公司的股权。

We might own a retail company that sells cigarettes.

我的意思是,这里面有各种不同层次的区别。但确实有些业务,是我们不想拥有、也不想对其经营负责的;可要说持有它们的股票或者债券,我们倒没什么问题。

I mean, there's all kinds of gradations, but we do not— there are things we don't want to own and be responsible for, their businesses, where we have no problem owning their stocks or bonds.

前些年,Charlie 和我去了一趟那个地方——Memphis?

And some years back, Charlie and I went down to where—Memphis?

对,对。

Yeah, yeah.

我们去看了一家公司——是他们邀请我们去的——那家公司做一种产品,那个产品,呃,完全合法,而且从它的经济效益来看,大概是我见过最好的生意之一。

We looked at a— we were invited down and we looked at a company that made a product that, that, uh, perfectly legal, probably one of the best businesses I've ever seen in terms of the economics of it.
M3
M34:20

没错。

Absolutely.
M2
M24:20

现在也 still doing very well。

Still doing very well.

我们是在一个房间里见到他们的——我们去了酒店,在房间里见了那家公司的经营者,那些人都非常正派,他们给我们介绍了这个生意。后来我们下到大堂,我没记错的话,我们就在大堂坐下来,然后就决定了,我们不想做这个生意。

And we met in the room with— we went to a hotel, we met in the room with the people that had the business, and people were perfectly decent people, and they described the business to us, and we went down in the lobby, and as I remember, we sat down in the lobby and we just decided that we didn't want to be in that business.

而且你知道,这种事情的界线也不是那么绝对清楚。

And, you know, the lines are not perfect on this sort of thing.

我的意思是,呃,呃,我敢肯定,The Buffalo News 里可能也会有一些广告,卖什么投资服务之类的,如果我知道背后是什么人在做,或者他们卖的到底是什么,我可能也会皱眉头。

I mean, it, uh, uh, I'm sure that there may be ads in The Buffalo News that are selling some investment service or something that I would cringe at if I knew the people involved or what they were selling.

还有,呃,如果你拥有一家大型零售企业,卖各种百货的那种,你很可能也会卖香烟,哪怕你自己并不认为人应该抽烟,或者你也不希望自己的孩子抽烟。

And that, uh, if you own a big retail establishment, a retailer, general merchandise, you know, you're probably going to be selling cigarettes when you don't think that you should smoke yourself or that your children should smoke.

所以——这件事并不完美,但我们确实拒绝过一些机会,最典型的就是那一次,因为我们专门跑了一千英里左右,到头来才真正面对这个事实:我们不想拥有它。

And it's— they're not perfect, but we have turned down some, uh, the most dramatic being that one because we went—took us a trip of 1,000 miles or so to finally face up to the fact that we didn't want to own it.

呃,Charlie,你对这个还有什么要补充的吗?

Uh, Charlie, do you have anything to add on that?
M3
M35:31

没有,不过那件事挺有意思的,因为按现在的标准看,那时候我们还年轻,也没那么有钱,而且,怎么说呢,我们也是普通人。我们当时看得很清楚,那感觉就像是把一亿美元放进一个大筐里,然后转身一把火烧掉,你现在这么一说,都让我有点难受了。

No, but that was interesting because we were young and poor then by modern standards, and, and, you know, we're very human, and we could see it was just like putting $100 million in a bushel basket and setting it on fire as we walked away, and you're making me feel bad.

不过,我们当时做这个决定是没问题的,也并不困难,但心里还是会有那么一点刺痛。

We, we made the decision all right and with no difficulty, but there was a certain twinge.