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2014年股东大会 · 企业估值时,定量和定性分析,哪个更重要?

56 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 6:14
F1
F10:00

嗨,Warren 和 Charlie。

Hi, Warren and Charlie.

我是来自 Los Angeles 的 Dan Hua。

Dan Hua from Los Angeles.

我和我太太 Cora 都特别高兴能来到这里。

My wife Cora and I are thrilled to be here.
M1
M10:07

我们也很高兴你们能来。

We're delighted to have you.
F1
F10:09

谢谢。

Thank you.

你们今天早些时候谈到了 intrinsic value,我本人非常推崇 Graham 和 Fisher,尤其是《Security Analysis》。

You earlier today discussed intrinsic value, and I'm a big fan of Graham and Fisher, especially Security Analysis.

那么在计算 intrinsic value 这件事上,你们和《Security Analysis》里讲的,如果有的话,有哪些不同?

What differences do you have, if any, for calculating intrinsic value versus what was said in Security Analysis?

再比如说,management 在这里面要怎么考虑进去?

And for example, how does management factor into that?

你最近提到过,评估 management 就像谈恋爱一样,而最近你也说过,management 的确很重要。

You recently mentioned evaluating management is like dating, and recently you said also management does matter.

我的第二个问题是,你们最忌惮的是哪家公司?

My second part is, which company do you fear the most?

为什么没有别人能做到你们做到的事?

Why is it that no one else has done what you have done?

我的意思是,Coca-Cola 也有他们的 Pepsi。

I mean, Coca-Cola has their Pepsi.

谢谢。

Thank you.
M1
M11:00

对,那个——其实,Graham 在 intrinsic value 的精确计算这件事上,并没有讲得特别具体。不过现在大家基本上都会把 intrinsic value 等同于——而且我觉得这样非常恰当——你可以称之为 private business value 的东西。

Yeah, the— actually, Graham didn't get too specific about intrinsic value in terms of precise calculations, but intrinsic value has come to be equated with, and I think quite properly, with what you might call private business value.

至于这个说法最早是谁提出来的,我不太确定,不过——嗯,真正第一个提出来的人,其实是 Aesop。

Now, I'm not sure who was the first one that came up with it, but— well, the first one that came up with it was Aesop, actually.

不过,任何一家企业的 intrinsic value,如果你能完美地预见未来的话,就是从现在到 Judgment Day 为止,这家企业未来所有会分配出来的现金流的现值。

But, uh, the intrinsic value of any, any business, if you could foresee the future perfectly, is the present value of all cash that will be ever distributed for that business between now and Judgment Day.

显然,我们没法把这个估得那么准,但那就是——那就是投资或者企业本身的核心所在。

And we're not perfect at estimating that, obviously, but that, that is, that's what an investment or a business is all about.

你把钱投进去,然后再把钱拿出来。

You put money in and you take money out.

Aesop 说过,双鸟在林,不如一鸟在手。

Aesop said, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

他说这句话大概是在公元前六百年左右之类的时候,不过到今天为止,商学院教授们也并没有在这个说法上改进多少。

Now, he said that around 600 BC or something like that, but that hasn't been improved on very much by, by the business professors now.

现在问题就在于,你得知道,灌木丛里到底是不是真的有两只鸟,你有多大把握?

Now, the question is, is, you know, how sure are you that there are two in the bush?

你知道,那片灌木丛到底有多远?

You know, how far away is the bush?

这里面有各种各样的因素。

There are all kinds of things.

利率是多少?

What are interest rates?

不过我的意思是,Aesop 大概是想给我们留点东西,让我们在接下来的几千年里慢慢琢磨,所以他没有把整套东西全都讲透。

But I mean, Aesop wanted to leave us something to play with over the next couple thousand years, so he didn't spell the whole thing out.

但这基本上就是 intrinsic value 的本质。

But that's, that's what intrinsic, intrinsic value essentially is.
M2
M22:34

然后,呃,我们并不——

And, uh, we don't—.
M1
M12:39

Graham 会这么说,Phil Fisher 也会这么说。

Graham would say that, Phil Fisher would say that.

Phil Fisher 会说,在做这个计算的时候,为了估计灌木丛里到底有多少只鸟,他会更深入地去看这家公司那些定性的因素。

Phil Fisher would say that in calculating that, he would want to look a lot harder at the qualitative factors of the business in making that estimate of how many birds were in the bush.

Graham 则会说,他想看到那片灌木丛里,明明白白就有价值两美元的现金,然后现在花一美元把它买下来。

Graham would say he would want to see the bush, you know, $2 worth of cash in the bush, you know, and to pay $1 for it now.

一个更强调定量因素,一个更强调定性因素,但两个人都不会不同意数学计算本身。

And one emphasized quantitative factors and one emphasized qualitative factors, but neither one would've disagreed with the math.

我一开始深受 Graham 的影响,所以我更强调定量因素。

And I started out very influenced by Graham, so I emphasized quantitative factors.

后来 Charlie 来了,说我完全错了,还说他在 law 里学到的东西,比我在 financial studies 里学到的还多,总之他说我应该更多去考虑定性因素。

Charlie came along and said I was all wrong and that he'd learned more in law than I'd learned in financial studies and everything, and that I should think more about qualitative factors.

而且他说得对。

And he was right.

Phil Fisher 也是这么说的。

And Phil Fisher said the same thing.

但这其实就是 intrinsic value 的核心。

But that's what intrinsic value is about.

你想啊,如果你买一家 McDonald's 的 franchise,或者你买 General Motors,不管是什么,真正的问题是,第一,你买下来之后,还需不需要继续往里面投更多现金?

You know, if you buy a McDonald's franchise, if you buy General Motors, whatever it may be, the real question is, A, are you going to have to put more cash into it after you buy it?

但归根结底,还是现金流入、现金流出、发生在什么时候、贴现率是多少,这些标准的东西。

But it's really cash in, cash out, when, what discount rate, all the standard stuff.

如果说我手里有一颗 silver bullet,要我指出哪家公司会对我们构成威胁,我会打谁?

In terms of if I had a silver bullet, what company would I shoot as being a threat to us?

我其实不太——我看不到 Berkshire 有什么真正的竞争对手。

I don't really— I don't see any competitor to Berkshire.

我看到 private equity 在买很多企业,他们的优势在于,他们会加杠杆,而我们不会;还有就是,他们现在借钱非常便宜,诸如此类。

I see private equity buying lots of businesses and having an advantage in that they'll leverage up when we won't, and also that presently they can borrow money very cheap and all of that.

所以,我的意思是,肯定总会有人在和我们竞争收购企业——这也是我们的主要业务,是我和 Charlie 最主要在做的事。

So, I mean, there are always going to be people competing with us to buy businesses, but— which is our main business, the main occupation for me and Charlie.

但我没看到有谁拥有一种模式,或者正在建立一种模式,本质上是冲着我们想实现的目标来的;我们的目标是,从那些真正在乎自己企业未来走向、而且通常还想继续经营企业的人手里,买下优秀的企业。

But I don't see anybody that's got a model or trying to build a model that will essentially go after what we're trying to achieve, which is to buy wonderful businesses from people that care about where their business goes and who generally want to keep on running them.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M24:52

嗯,就像我前面说过的,我觉得 Berkshire 这个模式,按现在这种构造,会像 show business 里说的那样,很有后劲。

Well, as I've said earlier, I think the Berkshire model, as now constructed, will have what they said in show business was legs.

它会持续很长时间,我觉得它会相当体面,而且我觉得它的优势足够大,所以它就是会一直走下去,很久很久。

It will go a long time, and I think it will be quite creditable, and I think it has enough advantage that it will just keep going a long time.

而且我不——我觉得大多数大企业都做不到这一点。

And I don't— I think most big businesses don't.

你仔细想想,过去那些非常庞大的企业,真正能做大之后还一直保持强大的,又有几个呢?

If you stop to think about it, all the great big businesses of yesteryear, how few of them have really gotten big and stayed big?

那些真正历史悠久的企业里,只有一家一直保持了规模,那就是 Rockefeller 的 Standard Oil。

Of the really old businesses, only one stayed big, and that was Rockefeller's Standard Oil.

所以你——我们现在进入的是一个极少有人能一直发展良好的领域。

And so you're— we're getting up into a territory where very few people keep going well.

但我觉得我们会更像 Standard Oil,而不会像普通企业,因为我觉得我们就是会一直走下去。

But I think we'll be more like Standard Oil than we'll be like ordinary businesses, because I think we will just keep going.

我们会继续做我们已经在做的事,也会不断从错误中学习。

We will keep doing what we're already doing, and we'll keep learning from our mistakes.

而且,坐在这上面的这些人,已经没有那么重要了。

And the people up here are no longer all that important.

这个势头已经形成了,这种 ethos 也已经形成了。

The momentum's in place, the ethos is in place.

它会继续往前走。

It's going to keep going.

所以在场的年轻人,我总是说,不要太快把这只股票卖掉。

And if you young people in the audience, I always say, don't be too quick to sell the stock.