M20:36
对，听起来你自己可能已经持有几只 Russian 股票了。
Yeah, it sounds like you may own a few Russian stocks yourself.
这个——我会——一九九八年——你也知道，一九九八年的时候，Walter Wriston 说过，不要违约。
The—I would—in 19—as you know, in 1998, uh, Walter Wriston said, don't default in 1998.
但至少在 Russia，他被证明说错了。
In Russia, at least, he was proven wrong.
我和 Charlie 还从 Salomon 那边接手过一家公司，那家公司是做石油业务的，而且是在 Siberia 那边大规模运作。
And Charlie and I inherited a business at Salomon that was in the oil business, big time out in Siberia.
后来有一段时间，就轮到我们去打那些井了。
And there came a time when we got to dig the holes.
我们把钱汇过去了，而且只要我们还在钻井，他们就欢迎我们；可等到我们的钱已经被拿去打井、我们想开始把油采出来的时候，他们就没那么友好了。
We sent the money in, and as long as we were drilling, we were welcome, and then when we wanted to start taking the oil out after our money had been used to drill the holes, they weren't quite as friendly.
事实上，发生在我们身上的事，某种程度上真的是相当极端。
In fact, it was really kind of extreme what took place with us.
所以有过几次那样的经历之后，我们可能要过很久，才会愿意把一大笔钱投进 Russia。
So having had a few experiences like that, it might take us quite a while before we wanted to sink a lot of money into Russia.
现在也许不一样了，但我不觉得这事有任何确定性。
It may be different now, but I don't think it's any certainty.
三年前的七月，我记得我在 Sun Valley 吃早餐的时候见过 Khodorkovsky，当时还有一位翻译在场。
I had breakfast in Sun Valley 3 years ago this July, I believe it was, with Khodorkovsky, and we had a translator there.
他当时跟我聊，他在考虑要不要让 Yukos 上市。
And he talked to me about whether he was thinking about listing Yukos
地点是在 New York Stock Exchange，但他说，你知道，那样的话就得向 SEC 注册之类的，他也不确定那样做会不会——会不会太危险。
on the New York Stock Exchange, but he said, you know, it would require registering with the SEC or something, and he wasn't sure whether that would—that would be too dangerous.
后来呢，我觉得他并没有在那里上市，但他回到 Russia 以后，到现在就一直在坐牢，呃，差不多从那以后就是这样。
Well, I don't think he listed there, but he went back to Russia, and he's been in jail now for, uh, well, just about ever since.
而 Yukos 也因为税务追缴之类的原因被推进了破产——你知道，这个——我只是觉得，要对那边的环境建立起很强的信心，有点难。尤其是在他们对待资本、特别是对待外来资本的态度上，很难相信那里已经发生了永久性的改变。
And Yukos was put into bankruptcy, uh, with tax claims and—you know, it—I don't, uh, I just think it's a little hard to develop a lot of confidence that the world has changed permanently there in terms of its attitude toward capital, and particularly toward outside capital.
Charlie，你怎么看？
Charlie, what are your thoughts?
对，这种情况让我有点想到 Playa del Petroleum。很多年前，这家公司在 Los Angeles 交易得很活跃。
Yeah, the situation reminds me a little of Playa del Petroleum, which years ago was much traded in Los Angeles.
当时大家常说的一句话是：他们要是真找到了石油，那个老头也会把它偷走。
And the saying always was, if they ever do find any oil, that old man will steal it.
恐怕我们现在在很多找油的国家里，都多少有这种问题。
And I'm afraid we have some of that problem in many of the countries in which we're seeking for oil.
Charlie，我们当时在那边，是不是真的连自己那些人的人身安全都受到威胁了？我记得我们派了一些人过去把设备运出来，他们说，如果派这些人去把设备弄出来，那不只是设备出不来，连人也出不来。
Didn't we really have the livelihood of our guys threatened over there, Charlie, when they—I think we sent in some people to get out the equipment and they said if these—sending the people to get out the equipment, not only would the equipment not get out, but the people wouldn't get out.
所以我们就明白那是什么情况了。
So we understood the situation.
那也不是很久以前的事。
That was not that long ago.