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2007年股东大会 · 芒格:伯克希尔能如此成功,因为巴菲特是一台“学习机器”

62 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 7:42
M1
M10:00

我是来自 Connecticut 的 Phil McCall。

This is Phil McCall from Connecticut.

我想请你谈谈一个我觉得你不太喜欢多讲的话题,就是 intrinsic value,以及过去十年到十二年里你们披露方式的变化——有时候会给我们看 investments,后来又给我们 operating income,并且暗示说这可能是个挺好的参考指标。

I wondered if you could comment on a subject I don't think you like to talk about very much, which is intrinsic value and the evolution over the past 10 or 12 years of going to—off and on, but giving us investments and then giving us the operating income and suggesting that might be a good guide to us.

我觉得这对我特别有帮助。

I find it extremely helpful.

呃,我不太确定别人是不是也这么觉得,特别是当你们在看你刚才说的未来二十年、往前看这两个部分的时候。

Uh, I'm not sure other people do when looking out the 20 years you're talking about, looking ahead on both those two parts.

你如果有什么评论,我会非常感激。

Any comments you might have, I'd surely appreciate.
M2
M20:37

对,嗯,Berkshire 的 intrinsic value,呃,跟任何其他企业一样,都是基于从现在到 Judgment Day 这段期间,这家公司预计能够带来的未来现金总额,再按照合适的贴现率折算回来。

Yeah, well, the intrinsic value of Berkshire, uh, like any other business, is based on the future amount of cash that can be expected to be delivered by the business between now and Judgment Day, discounted back at the proper rate.

这个说法其实是挺模糊的。

Now, that's pretty nebulous.

换一种看法,就是尽量去估算我们目前持有这些企业的价值,而我们也会尽量给你们提供信息,让你们能够做出一个相当接近的估值。

Another way of looking at it is to try and figure out the value of the businesses we own presently, and we try to give you the information that will enable you to make a reasonably close estimate of that.

我们持有很多 marketable securities。

We own lots of marketable securities.

大体上可以放心地说,它们的价值跟账面记录的价值差不太多。

It's probably safe to say that they are worth more or less what they are carried for.

然后我们还拥有不少 operating businesses,我们也会尽量把这些业务的数据告诉你们,而这些数据也正是我们自己在判断这些业务价值时会用到的数字。

And then we own a number of operating businesses, and we try to give you the figures on those businesses that are the figures that we use in making our own judgments about the value of those businesses.

这会告诉你,我们今天拥有什么,以及这些东西大概值多少。

Now, that tells you what we have today and more or less what it's worth.

但因为 Berkshire 会保留全部 earnings,所以评估这些 earnings 随着时间推移会被怎么使用,就变得非常重要。

But since Berkshire retains all of its earnings, it becomes very important to evaluate what will be done with those earnings over time.

我的意思是,这不只是个现有业务值多少钱的问题,还要判断 retained earnings 会被多高效、多有效地运用。

I mean, it is not only a question of what the present businesses are worth, it's a judgment on the efficiency or the effectiveness with which retained earnings will be used.

如果你回头看一九六五年 Berkshire 的 intrinsic value,当时我们有一家纺织企业,它大概每股值十二美元。

If you had looked at the intrinsic value of Berkshire in 1965, we had a textile business that was probably worth about $12 a share.

但那并不是整个公式的全部,因为我们打算把产生出来的任何现金,都拿去尽量买入比我们当时手上更好的企业。

But that was not the only part of the equation, because we intended to use any cash generated to try and buy into better businesses than we had.

而我们也很幸运,能够在一九六七年进入 insurance 业务,并在那个基础上继续发展。

And we were fortunate enough to be able to buy into the insurance business in 1967 and build on that.

所以,决定 Berkshire 在那么早之前真正应该有多少现值的,不只是我们当时拥有的业务组合,还有 retained earnings 将会被怎样运用的能力。

So it was not only a combination of the business we had, but the skill with which retained earnings would be used that determined what the present value actually should have been at Berkshire going back that far.

今天也是一样的情况。

It's the same situation today.

今年、明年、后年,我们都会动用几十亿又几十亿美元去做投资。

We will put to work billions and billions of dollars this year, next year, the year after.

如果我们把这些钱用得有效,那每一美元的现值,就会高于它仅仅以现金形式存在、或者被分配出去时的价值。

If we put that to work effectively, each dollar has a greater present value than a dollar has simply in cash or distributed.

如果我们用得没效率,那它的价值就会比那个更低一些。

If we do it ineffectively, it has a value of something less.

至于现在这些业务,你知道,我们有——具体数字看 annual report——大约八百亿美元的 marketable securities。

The businesses today, you know, we have whatever the figure is in the annual report, uh, roughly $80 billion in marketable securities.

如果我们的 insurance 业务能做到盈亏平衡,那么这八百亿美元对我们来说,在使用上基本就是 free 的。

If our insurance business breaks even, that $80 billion is free to us in terms of using it.

另外我们还有一组 operating businesses,我们在报告里列出了它们的 earnings,我们会努力继续增加这些业务,它们自己也会努力提升 earnings。

And we have a group of operating businesses, and we show their earnings in the report, and we're going to try and add to those, and they'll try to add to their earnings.

但是,如果现在 Charlie 和我各自在一张纸上写下我们认为 Berkshire 的 intrinsic value 是多少,我们写出来的数字不会完全一样。

But if Charlie and I were each right now to write down on a piece of paper what we think the intrinsic value of Berkshire is, our figures would not be the same.

不过会相当接近。

They'd be reasonably close.

那我想,接下来就交给 Charlie 吧。

And I think with that, I'll turn it over to Charlie.
M3
M33:52

对,在 Berkshire 最难判断的一点是,未来你还有多大可能看到跟过去类似的表现。

Yeah, what's hard to judge at Berkshire is the likelihood that you'll have anything like the past to look forward to in the future.

Berkshire 在投资结果这方面,已经好到了一个非常极端的程度。

Berkshire has gotten very extreme in terms of investment results.

其实,这件事已经极端到这种程度了,你很难在世界历史上想到另一个类似的先例。

In fact, it's gotten so extreme that it's hard to think of another similar precedent in the history of the world.

而且考虑到这个地方最开始规模那么小,这张资产负债表的规模简直大得惊人。

And the balance sheet is gross considering, uh, the small beginnings of the place.

那么,到底是什么原因,让这样极其出色的纪录持续了这么非常长的时间呢?

Now, what on earth has caused this extreme record to go on for such a very long time?

我的看法是,这个年轻人十岁的时候就把自己能读到的东西全都拿来读,后来就变成了一台学习机器;他很早就获得了很大的力量,然后在持续学习的过程中,又跑出了一个非常长的长跑成绩。

I would argue that the young man who was reading everything he could read when he was 10 years old, uh, became a learning machine, and he got a lot of power early, and then he got a very long run when he kept learning.

我告诉你,如果 Warren 一直以来没有持续学习——我是近距离看着整个过程的——那这个成绩跟现在相比,只会是个黯然失色的影子。

If Warren had not been learning all the while, I'm telling you, having watched the process closely, the record would be a pale shadow of what it is.

而且 Warren 在过了通常人们所谓的退休年龄之后,还在继续进步。

And Warren has improved since he passed the retirement age of man.

换句话说,至少在这个领域里,你上了年纪以后还是可以继续提升的。

In other words, in this field at least, you can improve when you're old.

现在,大多数人甚至都不会去尝试创造这样的纪录。

Now, most people don't even try and create that kind of a record.

他们就是把权力从一个六十五岁的人交给另一个五十九岁的人,然后一遍又一遍地这么做。

They pass power from one 65-year-old to one 59-year-old and then do it over and over again.

但是在这个领域里,练习会带来巨大的优势。

But you get an enormous advantage from practice in this field.

所以,发生在 Warren 身上的这个偶然情况,对你们这些股东帮助非常大,因为你们享受到了一个很长的时期,在这段时间里权力是高度集中的。

And so what happened accidentally in the case of Warren has helped you shareholders greatly because you had this long run with power extremely concentrated.

而且,掌握这个权力的人,还是个极其凶猛的学习者。

And, uh, and with the man holding the power being a ferocious learner.

我们的这套制度,理应比现在被更多人效仿。

Uh, our system ought to be more copied than it is.

这种按部就班地把权力从一个老家伙交给另一个老家伙的想法,未必就是正确的制度。

This idea of passing the power from one old codger to another in a settled way is not necessarily the right system at all.
M2
M26:06

我们现在已经有了一种非常强大的文化:讲求理性,站在所有者的角度思考。这个文化在我不在之后很久,也还会继续下去。

We, we have a very strong culture now of rationality, of being owner-oriented, that will go on long after I'm not around.

而且,我们在运营层面已经有了合适的人才,随着时间推移,能做成很多很棒的事情。

And, and we have the talent on the operating side in place to do a lot of wonderful things over time.

我们在资本配置这件事上,还需要继续做聪明的事。

We, we will need in capital allocation to keep doing intelligent things.

我们不会经常有机会做出那种特别 brilliant 的事,因为面对我们现在谈的这种资金规模,你本来就很难做出那种 brilliant 的操作。

We won't get to do brilliant things because you don't get to do brilliant things with the kind of sums we're talking about.

也许非常非常偶尔,会冒出一个机会,你知道的,你会碰上那么一次。

Maybe once in a blue moon, something, you know, you'll get a chance.

但我们需要的是这样一个人:基本上从来不做蠢事,偶尔做出一两件还相当不错的事。

But we will need somebody, uh, that never does it—basically doesn't do any dumb things and occasionally does something that's, that's reasonably good.

这是做得到的。

That can be done.
M3
M36:56

而且,而且我们已经——

And, and we have—
M2
M27:00

我们已经在这条路上了。

We're on that road already.

这个组织并不是——如果你要以投资主管或者资本配置者的身份融入这个组织,那你是上对了车。

Uh, it does not— fitting into this organization as an investment officer or a capital allocator, you're getting in the right vehicle.

它有正确的标准。

It has the right standards.

它会拒绝那些真正不理性的想法。

It will reject ideas that, that really are irrational.

我进过很多董事会。

I've been on a lot of boards.

Charlie 也进过很多董事会。

Charlie's been on a lot of boards.

你会很惊讶,有那么多事情发生时,驱动它们的是 animal spirits,而不是理性。

You would be amazed at the number of things that are responding to animal spirits rather than to rationality that take place.

我们也有自己的 animal spirits,不过我们把它们用在别的地方。

And we have our animal spirits, but we devote them to other areas.

我们继续看第十四个问题。

Let's go on to number 14.

那是在 junior ballroom。

That's in the junior ballroom.