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2017年股东大会 · 做好投资,有一件事比学会估值更重要

42 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 4:44
M1
M10:00

我是来自 Virginia Beach, Virginia 的 Sterling Capital 的 Adam Bergman。

I'm Adam Bergman with Sterling Capital in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

今天早些时候,Munger 先生评论了 China 和 U.S. 市场的估值。

Earlier today, Mr. Munger commented on the valuation of China versus the U.S. market.

我想请问您,市值和 GDP 的比值,还有经周期调整后的市盈率,现在还算是判断市场估值的有效方法吗?

My question for you is, are market cap to GDP and cyclically adjusted P/E still valid ways to consider market valuation?

还有,这些指标会怎么影响 Berkshire 的投资决策?

And how do those influence Berkshire's investment decisions?

谢谢。

Thank you.
M2
M20:32

Charlie,我觉得你——嗯,我猜,是被带偏了。

Charlie, I think you— well, distracted, I guess.

带到 Charlie 对 China 的整体看法上去了。

Charlie's overall views on China.

我会说,你提到的这两个标准,在我们给证券估值的时候,根本算不上最重要。

I would say that both of the standards you mentioned are not paramount at all in our valuation of securities.

这个,这个,这个更难一些。

It's, it's, it's harder.

大家总是在找一个公式。

People are always looking for a formula.

而且最终确实有那么一个公式,但问题是,你不知道该往里面那些变量填什么。

And there is an ultimate formula, but the trouble is you don't know what to stick in for the variables in it.

不过——你也知道,任何东西的价值,都是它未来一生中将会分配出的所有现金流的现值。

But the— and you know, that's the value of anything being the present value of all the cash it's ever going to distribute.

但是,那个,市盈率——我的意思是,每个数字都有一定的意义,只是有时候意义更大,有时候没那么大。

But the, the P/E ratios— I mean, every number has some degree of meaning, means more sometimes than others.

一家企业的估值,呃,并不是那种可以靠一个公式,把变量完美地填进去,就能算出来的东西。

The valuation of a business is, uh, it's not, it's not reducible to any formula where you can actually put in the variables, uh, perfectly.

而且你提到的这两个东西,本身也经常被大家拿来反复谈论。

And both of the things that you mentioned get themselves get, get, uh, bandied around a lot.

也不是说它们不重要。

It's not that they're unimportant.

但有时候它们会非常重要,有时候又可能几乎,呃,完全不重要。

But sometimes they're— they can be very important, sometimes they can be almost, uh, totally unimportant.

事情没那么简单,不是说有一两个公式,然后你就能下结论,说市场被低估了还是高估了,或者某家公司被低估了还是高估了。

It's just not— it's not quite as simple as, as having one or two formulas and then saying the market is undervalued or overvalued, or a company is undervalued or overvalued.

最重要的事情是未来的利率。

The most important thing is future interest rates.

而且,你知道,人们经常会直接代入当前利率,说这是他们能做到的最好办法。

And, you know, and people frequently plug in the current interest rate saying that's the best they can do.

毕竟,它确实反映了市场的判断。

After all, it does reflect a market's judgment.

而且,你知道,三十年期国债应该能告诉你,那些愿意把钱投出去三十年,并且在这三十年结束时,不承担美元收益或美元损失风险的人,是怎么想的——不过,你还能想出更好的数字吗?

And, you know, the 30-year bond should tell you what people who are willing to put out money for 30 years and have no risk of dollar gain or dollar loss at the end of the 30-year period— but what better figure can you come up with?

我不确定我能不能想出一个更好的数字,但那也不代表我就愿意用当前这个数字。

I'm not sure I can come up with a better figure, but that doesn't mean I want to use the current figure either.

所以我会说,我觉得 Charlie 的回答会是,他不会用你提到的这些标尺,去比较 China 和 U.S. 市场。

So I would I would say that I think Charlie's answer will be that he does not compare China versus the U.S. market based on what you've mentioned as yardsticks.

不过,Charlie,还是你自己跟他们说吧。

But no, Charlie, you tell them.
M3
M32:56

我的意思只是,我之前说过,钓鱼的第一条规则,就是去有鱼的地方钓;而一个厉害的渔夫,能在 China 找到更多鱼。

All I meant was that I said before that the first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are, is that a good fisherman can find more fish in China.

如果你——如果把鱼比作股票市场里的机会的话。

If you're— if fish is the stock market.

我就这个意思。

That's all I meant.
M2
M23:11

对。

Yeah.

这个——我还是回到一个更让人开心的狩猎场吧。

One— I'm going to go back to a happier hunting ground.

这个其实跟刚才那个话题没有直接关系。

This doesn't really directly relate to this.

我想回到前面提到的一个问题。

I want to go back to one question that was mentioned earlier.

我真的觉得,如果你想成为一个善于评估企业的人,呃,呃,一个投资者,呃,你真的应该想办法,在别让自己付出太大个人代价的前提下,去经营一家很烂的企业一段时间。

I really think if you want to be a good evaluator of businesses, uh, uh, an investor, uh, you really ought to figure out a way without too much personal damage to run a lousy business for a while.

我觉得,跟一家糟糕的企业苦苦周旋个两年,你对商业学到的东西,会比你进入一家特别好的企业学到的更多;因为那种企业本身太好了,好到你怎么折腾都折腾不坏。

I think you learn a whole lot more about business by actually struggling with a terrible business for a couple of years than you learn by getting into a very good one where the business itself is so good that you can't mess it up.

呃,我不知道——我不知道 Charlie 对这件事有没有什么看法,不过这确实——这是我们学习经历里很重要的一部分。

Uh, I don't know what— I don't know whether Charlie has a view on that or not, but it's certainly— it was a big part of our learning experience.

而且我觉得,从某种意义上说,比起经营——或者说参与那些好企业,更重要的一部分,其实是参与过一些烂企业,然后亲眼看到,呃,那到底有多糟。

And I think a bigger part, in a sense, than running— being involved with good business was actually being involved in some bad businesses and just seeing, uh, how awful it was.

到底有多糟,以及,以及你对它其实几乎无能为力,还有,还有 IQ 并不能解决这个问题,诸如此类很多事情。

How awful it is and, and how little you can do about it and, and how IQ does not solve the problem and a whole bunch of things.

我——这是种很有用的经历,不过我也不会建议经历太多。

I— it's, it's a useful experience, but I wouldn't advise too much of it.

你也这么觉得吗,Charlie?

Well, you think so, Charlie?
M3
M34:28

这对我们来说非常有用。

It was very useful to us.

如果你真想学习,没有什么比亲身经历那种痛苦更管用的了,而我们当然也没少经历。

There's nothing like personal painful experience if you want to learn, and we certainly had our share of it.
M2
M24:43

好,Becky。

Okay, Becky.