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Bill Ackman: The Biggest Fight of His Life

946 段 · 4 位说话人 · 原片 77:10
M1
M10:00

所以你得想清楚的是,事情被搞砸的风险。

So the thing that you need to think through is the risk of disruption.

而人工智能做的事情就是大大增加了这种被打乱的风险。

And what AI has done is massively increased the risk of disruptions.
M2
M20:13

你和露西今年过得很不容易。

You've had a challenging year this year with Lucy.

发生了什么事?

What happened?
M1
M10:17

之前非常健康的一个孩子。

Otherwise healthy child.

事情是这样的,她有一个我们完全不知道的、叫做动静脉畸形的问题,这是大脑里的一种结构——医生是这么描述的,动脉,你知道,通常血液先流入动脉,然后到毛细血管,再到静脉。

What happened was she had, unbeknownst to us, what's called an arteriovenous malformation, which is a kind of structure in the brain where the— the way the doctors describe it is the arteries, you know, typically blood flows into the arteries and then to the capillaries and then to the veins.

从血流量很大的动脉到毛细血管的时候,血流会减慢,然后到静脉。

And when you go from arteries where there's a huge amount of blood flow to capillaries, the blood flow slows down and then to the veins.

所以呢,呃,在她的情况里,她有一个所谓的“桥”,直接从动脉连接到静脉。

So they, uh, in her case, she had what they call a bridge that went from the artery directly to the vein.

所以久而久之,压力变得太大。

So over time, there was too much pressure.

进入她大脑的这些静脉,其中一根静脉破裂了。

Going into these veins in her brain, and one of those veins burst.

然后大量血液充满了她的脑部,而脑部容积是有限的。

And then a large amount of blood filled her brain, which is a confined volume.

所以有点像在脑子里吹气球,那给周围的大脑和颅骨施加了压力。

And so it's a bit like a balloon blowing up inside your brain, and that put pressure on the surrounding brain and the skull.

显然颅骨不会移动,所以压力往下走。

And obviously the skull doesn't move, so the pressure goes downward.

压力施加在中脑上。

It puts pressure on the midbrain.

中脑控制着你的呼吸。

The midbrain is what keeps you breathing.

控制着你的心跳。

Keeps your heart beating.

最不幸的是,根据她的Oura Ring,我们相信这发生在早上九点左右。

And the really unfortunate thing, we believe this happened around 9 in the morning based on her Oura Ring.

她住的地方,你知道,一个年轻女孩独自住在威廉斯堡。

She lived, you know, young woman lives alone in Williamsburg.

那天下午四点我给她发了短信。

And I texted her at 4 o'clock that day.

那天我还给她打过一次电话。

I had called her another time that day.

其他家人也这样做了,但直到她没有去取行李。

Other family members had done the same, but only when she hadn't picked up her luggage.

她当时,你知道,她要动身去阿布扎比参加一个婚礼。

She was, you know, she was leaving for Abu Dhabi for a wedding.

她的一位朋友第二天结婚。

A friend of hers was getting married the following day.

她当时正从她妈妈家取行李,但她没有出现——她晚了两个小时,那天没人能联系上她,我当时正在睡觉,但我的大女儿去找她,发现她躺在公寓地板上,呼吸微弱,右侧脸朝下趴着。

And she was picking up her luggage from her mom's house and she didn't show a couple— when she was 2 hours late and no one could reach her that day, I was sleeping at the time, but my oldest daughter went to find her and they found her lying on the floor of her apartment, barely breathing, face down on her right side.

她以为她已经死了。

And she thought she was dead.

打了911。

Called 911.

她能听到她非常费力的呼吸声。

She could hear her breathing in a very labored way.

而且我睡觉时不把手机放在旁边。

And then I don't sleep next to my cell phone.

我女儿不知道我家的座机号码。

My daughter doesn't know the landline number for my house.

所以她只能联系到楼里的一个人。

So she was able to call someone in the building.

楼里有个人敲了门,使劲拍门,然后把手机递给我,上面是我女儿,然后他就跳上了一辆出租车。

Guy in the building knocked on the door, pounded on the door, and handed me the phone with my daughter on it, and then hopped in a cab.

急救人员不知道该送她去哪个医院,因为他们不知道她出什么事了。

The EMT didn't know which hospital to take her because they didn't know what had happened to her.

一个大问题是,有时候急救人员会觉得某人只是喝醉了,所以才会摔倒。

One of the big problems, sometimes the EMT thinks someone's just drunk and that's why they fell.

而处理喝醉的人的方式就是等着时间过去。

And the way you treat a drunk person is you just let time go by.

但对于脑出血的人来说,时间流逝非常——大脑受压的时间越长,可能造成的损伤就越大。

Time going by for a person with a brain hemorrhage is very— the more time the brain is under pressure, the more damage that can take place.

12点05分到了医院,她就坐在轮床上,医生们还在查她到底怎么了。

Got to the hospital at 12:05 and she was just sitting on a gurney there while they were trying to figure out what she had.

最后,他们给她做了CT。

Eventually, they gave her a CT.

他们发现她有出血。

They figured out she had a hemorrhage.

他们叫了外科医生。

They called the surgeon.

需要做的是尽快释放大脑的压力。

And what you need to do is you need to release the pressure on the brain as quickly as possible.

方法就是移除大约40%的头骨,让大脑能够在颅骨之外膨胀。

And the way you do that is you remove about 40% of the skull to allow the brain to expand beyond the skull.

我们把她从Elmhurst医院转走,顺便说一句,对他们那里的照顾非常满意,那是皇后区的一家市立医院。

And we moved her from, you know, Elmhurst Hospital, by the way, very pleased with how they cared for her there, City Hospital in Queens.

我们把她转到了Mount Sinai,我和Neri在那里待了一段时间,帮助过Mount Sinai。

We moved her to Mount Sinai where, you know, Neri and I spent some time helping Mount Sinai.

所以我们认识那里的团队。

So we got, we knew the team there.

他们也有非常好的神经外科医生和神经科学脑科。

And they also have very good neurosurgeons and a neuroscience brain practice.

她当时插着呼吸管。

And, you know, she was on a breathing tube.

嗯,她头上缠着绷带,上面写着‘没有骨头’,对吧,是为了确保护士们知道要小心。

Um, you know, she was wearing some— she had bandage, of course, on her head, and it said no bone, right, to make sure that nurses knew not to— to be careful.

嗯,就这样开始了。

And, uh, that's how we started.

所以,呃,我基本上跟医生们说——我称之为‘敢于伟大’的演讲。

And so, uh, you know, the, the— I basically gave the doctors the— what I call it— the dare to be great speech.

我说,让我们看看能达成什么。

I said, you know, let's, let's see what can be achieved.

需要什么就从我们这里买,资源不限。

Buy whatever you need from us, unlimited resources.

让我们看看最新最好的技术。

Let's look at latest and greatest technologies.

他们基本上告诉我们,Bill,我们不知道她会有什么样的后遗症。

I mean, they basically told us, look, Bill, we don't know what kind of deficit she's going to have.

大脑受压了19个小时。

19 Hours of pressure on the brain.

其实我几周后才知道,通常超过5个小时他们就不会做手术救人,因为基本上默认脑死亡了。

I didn't learn actually until weeks later, they don't normally do the surgery to save someone when it's been more than 5 hours because the assumption is brain death basically.

所以19个小时,她离死亡非常近。

So 19 hours, she's as close to death.

几个小时,几分钟,我不太确定。

Hours, minutes, I don't know exactly.

所以我们不知道她会变成什么样,但我是一个非常乐观的人。

And so we didn't know what would become of her, but I'm a very optimistic person.

而随着时间的推移,她的认知能力恢复了。

And she's regained over time her cognition.

她还是我们认识的那个Lucy。

She's the same Lucy we knew.

她有同样的幽默感,这真的很了不起。

She's got the same sense of humor, which is really kind of remarkable.

她醒来的时候,没法走路,没法说话,不幸的是,也看不见了。

She woke up not being able to walk, to speak, and unfortunately to see.

她的行走能力正在恢复。

Her walking is coming back.

我觉得她会重新恢复走路的能力。

I think she's going to regain her ability to walk.

她的语言能力恢复得非常慢。

Her speech very slowly is coming back.

除了我们学过的那些元音,还有大概17个元音,她现在17个能发大约15个了。

There's something like 17 vowels beyond the vowels that we were taught, and she can do about 15 of the 17 now.

她几乎每天都在学一个新的辅音。

Each day she's almost learning a new consonant.

她能说几个词了,当然“不”这个字,她说得很好。

She can say a few words, certainly no, she's quite good at.

然后是视力,她在这方面也有了一些进展。

And then vision, she's even shown some progress there.

但是,你知道,我花了很多时间和医生们一起努力。

But I've, you know, I spent a lot of time, you know, working with the doctors.

我跟他们说,我们看看能为她做些什么,而且我们从她身上学到的每一样东西,都能用来帮助别人。

And, you know, my pitch to them was, let's see what we can do for her, and everything we learn for her, we can help others.

而且,Neri和我打算让所有人都能用上这些成果。

And, you know, Neri and I are going to make this available to everyone.

然后,呃,三个月后,大概是我生日聚会回来的时候吧,我接到了一个朋友的电话。

And, uh, 3 months after, I guess I was coming back from my birthday party, and I got a call from a friend.

我们其实在和Mount Sinai谈,关于重新开发他们第五大道的校区,建一个脑研究所,某种脑中心。

We were talking to Mount Sinai actually about doing a redevelopment of their Fifth Avenue campus to build a brain institute, some kind of brain center.

我们和他们的想法非常一致。

And we were very aligned with their idea.

问题是那可能是一个十年的项目,而且超级复杂,显然要拆掉现有的医院,把人搬走,再把人接回来。

The problem with that is probably a 10-year project and super complicated, obviously taking down an existing hospital, moving people, bringing people back.

然后,在65街和第11大道附近,离办公室十个街区的地方,有一栋空置的生物技术大楼可以用。

And a vacant biotechnology building became available on 65th and 11th Avenue, 10 blocks from the office.

六十天后,我们就完成了那栋楼的交易。

And 60 days later, we closed on the building.

我们签了合同,买下这块地的其余部分。

We signed a contract to buy the rest of the site.

这是一块3.4英亩的地。

It's a 3.4-acre site.

我们的目标是建造世界上最伟大的脑研究所。

And our goal is to build the world's greatest brain institute.

一切从关注患者开始,我们怎么把治疗带给患者?

Everything from a focus on the patient, how do we get treatments to patients?

而且科技领域有很多有趣的事情在发生。

And there's a ton of interesting things going on in technology.

显然,大家都知道Neuralink,但可能还有十几家公司在研究脑机接口,以及从大脑获取数据的其他方式,对吧?

Obviously, everyone knows Neuralink, but there are probably a dozen other companies working on brain-computer interfaces and other ways to get data from the brain, right?

你想一想,当然还有AI,对吧?

If you think, and of course AI, right?

所以我们不仅能从大脑获取越来越多的数据,还能比以往任何时候都更好地解读这些数据。

So not only are we able to get more and more data from the brain, we're able to interpret that data better than ever before.

所以我希望Lucy能靠自己正常说话,就是慢慢练。

So I'm hoping Lucy can speak normally on her own, just working at it.

我希望她的视力能恢复。

I'm hoping her vision returns.

但如果她在这些方面有缺陷,相对短期到中期内会有解决办法。

But if she has deficits in those areas, there will be solutions in the relatively short to intermediate term.

想象一个世界,你戴着一副带摄像头的眼镜,摄像头捕捉视觉画面,然后把它传送到你的视觉皮层,你就是这样看东西的。

Envision a world where you wear a pair of glasses that basically have a camera, and the camera takes in the vision and kind of ports it to your visual cortex, and that's how you see.

我是说,那将会是——埃隆说他会在比较短的时间内,也就是5年内,让人们有一种基础的视觉方式。

I mean, that will be how— Elon says he's going to have a rudimentary way for people to see within a relatively short amount of time, and within 5 years.

实际上,我几乎联系了所有人来帮忙做这件事,他告诉我,他说5年内,人们将拥有比——实际上是拥有仿生视觉。

Actually, I've reached out to pretty much everyone for help on this, and he told me, he said 5 years, people will have better vision than— will have bionic vision in effect.

Kellner医生跟我描述的方式是——这件事一直是Lucy在主导——很多神经科医生甚至神经外科医生都是虚无主义者。

The way Dr. Kellner describes it to me is that— it's been Lucy's lead on this whole thing— a lot of neurologists and even neurosurgeons are nihilists.

他们不相信患者能够实现真正实质性的康复,但患者其实是可以做到的。

They don't believe that the patients can make really material recoveries, and they can.

我们听到了很多有趣的康复故事,这些故事很适合跟Lucy分享,但我们将来能做的要多得多。

And we've heard a lot of interesting stories of recovery, which are great to share with Lucy, but we're going to be able to do a lot more.

而纽约实际上可能是最适合做这件事的地方之一。

And New York's actually probably one of the best places.

呃,来做这件事,而且目前还没有任何类似的东西。

Uh, to do this, and there isn't anything like it.

所以我们对此非常兴奋。

So we're excited about it.
M2
M28:01

你们作为回应所做的一切简直太不可思议了。

What you guys have done in response is just incredible.
M1
M18:05

是的,有趣的是,我在职业生涯中积累的所有技能、经验、人脉和资源——让我处于一个极好的位置,呃,去帮助我的女儿,也去帮助其他有这个问题、遇到这个问题的人。

Yeah, so what's interesting is that all of the skills, experiences, relationships, resources that I've developed over my career work— set me up to be incredibly well positioned, uh, to, to help my daughter and to help other people that have this, have this problem.

我算是房地产投资者,所以我能够以成本的一小部分买下那栋楼。

I'm like a real estate investor, so I was able to buy the building at a fraction of what it cost.

还有建筑、设计——我还娶了一位非常有才华的建筑师,她将在这里发挥相当重要的作用。

And architecture, design — I'm also married to a very talented architect who's going to play a pretty important role here.

所以我认为我们会做出一些真正有趣的事情。

So I think we're going to do something really interesting.

而且我们收到了令人难以置信的大量响应,很多人都想参与其中,在很多情况下——我们很感激那些给我们写信的人,他们在非常个人的层面上经历过这件事,有兄弟、姐妹、母亲或父母遭受过这种痛苦,他们看到了如今治疗的现状,他们想要改变它。

And we've had an incredible outpouring of people who want to be part of this, who in many cases— we love people who write to us who've dealt with this on a very personal level, have a brother, a sister, a mother, a parent who've suffered, and they've seen the nature of the treatment that's available today and they want to change that.

这很有意思。

It's interesting.

实际上,人们会说,Bill,你是怎么处理这样的事的?

And actually, people say, Bill, how do you deal with something like this?

嗯,我首先要做的事情就是想清楚如何帮助我的孩子。

Well, the first thing I had to do is figure out how to help my child.

随着我在这方面取得进展,另外这件事也很了不起——它让我觉得有好的东西正从中产生——我有这样的观点:每一件坏事,都会从中产生一些好的东西。

And as I made progress with that, this other thing is an amazing— It makes me feel like something good is coming out of— I have this view that every bad thing, something good comes from it.

这就是她从这段经历中得到的好东西之一,这让我感觉很好。

This is among the good that's coming from what she's going through, and that makes me feel good.
M2
M29:27

你一直都有这种观点,还是后来学到的?

Did you always have that view or was that learned?
M1
M19:29

我是随着时间慢慢领悟到的。

I figured that out over time.
M2
M29:31

什么时候?

When?

是不是有某个时刻,那个——

Was there a moment when that—
M1
M19:34

嗯,我在商业上有过几次濒临死亡的经历,每一次之后,我的境况都实质性地变得更好了。

Well, I've had a few near-death experiences in business, and in each one of those cases, I was materially better off after that.

所以那些算是,你知道的,很好的经验教训。

So those are kind of, you know, good lessons.

“杀不死你的东西会让你更强大”这句话绝对是真理。

The what does not kill you makes you stronger thing is definitely true.

顺便说一下,对于我的孩子,对于Lucy,我认为这件事对她来说会是好的。

And by the way, for my child, for Lucy, I think this is going to be good for her.
M2
M29:58

展开讲讲。

Say more about that.
M1
M110:00

你看,她是一个很棒、很了不起的人,但如果她能从此生如此毁灭性的事情中恢复过来,这会让她变成一个超人一样的人。

Look, she's a wonderful, amazing person, but if you can recover from something as devastating as this, it's going to make her into like a superhuman.

而她是一个非常美好的人。

And she is a wonderful human being.

我是说,帮助她恢复的因素之一就是,第一,她妈妈每天都陪在她身边。

I mean, one of the things that's helping her recover is, one, her mom has been there every day.

我把办公室搬到了医院里。

I moved my office into the hospital.

她住进医院不到一天,我就做了两个IPO。

Within a day of her moving into the hospital, I did 2 IPOs.

这两个Pershing的IPO,我是在Mount Sinai Hospital的11 West楼11层1107房间完成的。

The 2 Pershing IPOs I did from room 1107 on the 11th floor of 11 West at Mount Sinai Hospital.

嗯,这就是Zoom的力量。

Um, the power of Zoom.

所以我会开45分钟的Zoom会议,然后去陪女儿15分钟,然后再开下一个会议。

So I did, I would do a Zoom meeting for 45 minutes and then I would go spend 15 minutes with my daughter and then I'd do the next meeting.

所以我女儿就是我做这两个IPO的灵感来源,你知道,就是我们当时在做的这两个。

And so I had my daughter as the inspiration, you know, for these 2 IPOs, uh, that we were working on.

我们直到8月8号才把她从医院接出来。

And we only moved her out of the hospital, uh, August 8th.

嗯,她一直在Bridgehampton做康复,然后她会回城里来,你知道,做个小手术。

Um, and she's been rehabilitating in Bridgehampton and then she's coming back, um, into the city, you know, for a little procedure.
M2
M211:01

嗯哼。

Mm-hmm.
M1
M111:01

然后她会搬进自己的公寓。我们在事情发生几周内就在同一栋楼里买了一套公寓,一直在把它设计成最适合她康复恢复的住处。

And then she's moving into her own apartment that we've been We bought an apartment in our building within a few weeks of the incident, and we've been designing it to be the best rehab recovery place for her to live.

而社交,人际互动,对于从这种事中恢复的人来说绝对至关重要。

And socialization, social interaction is absolutely critical for someone recovering from something like this.

你得到的情感支持什么的,她的朋友们真的非常棒。

The emotional support that you get and everything, and her friends have been amazing.

她的朋友们每天都陪着她。

Her friends have been with her every day.

每天,至少有一个朋友会来。

Every day, one or more of her friends shows up.

跟她说话,跟她吃饭,跟她互动。

And talks to her, eats with her, engages with her.

而她是那种特别乐于付出的人,朋友很多,所有人都喜欢Lucy。

And she's like this super giving person, ton of friends, everyone loves Lucy.

所以她也得到了惊人的回报,因为她的朋友们都来帮助她、拯救她。

And so she's getting an amazing return on that because her friends are showing up to save her.
M2
M211:50

这一切让我觉得,人类可以如此了不起。

All of this makes me feel that humans can be so amazing.

是啊。

Yeah.
M1
M111:55

我是说,你几乎可以从任何事中恢复过来。

I mean, you can recover from almost anything.

对。

Yeah.

顺便说一句,对于中风、脑损伤、军人创伤性脑损伤这类情况,现在希望大得多了。

And by the way, there's a lot more hope for people who've had strokes, brain injuries, military TBI type stuff.

这个领域里有很多人,你知道,对我们进展太慢感到非常沮丧,他们想成为解决这个问题的人。

And there are a number of people in the field that have been really frustrated with, you know, how far we've not gone, who want to be the ones that fix this.
M2
M212:23

是什么阻碍了我们走得更远?

What's been preventing us from going further?

比如说,为什么我们没有在这些东西上突破极限?

Like, why haven't we pushed the limits on this stuff?
M1
M112:29

答案是保险行业、经济因素,还有医院的运作方式,这些因素加在一起。

The answer is some combination of the insurance industry and just economics and hospitals, how they work.

我的意思是,神经外科医生做完一台手术,就想着去做下一台。

I mean, a neurosurgeon wants to do their surgery and then move on to the next one.

神经外科医生收入很高,但他们做手术才有钱拿。

Neurosurgeons are highly compensated, but they get paid for doing surgeries.

他们不会因为病人长期的康复过程而获得报酬。

They don't get paid for the recovery of the patient over time.

康复治疗,每家医院都有某种康复项目,但在很多情况下,这种项目少得可怜,而且保险公司可能只支付六周的护理费用。

Rehabilitation, every hospital has some kind of rehabilitation program, but in many cases it's embarrassingly inadequate and the insurance company might pay for only 6 weeks of care.

然后他们就被送回家,但家里并不是理想的地方,这真是个大事——需要大家齐心协力。

And then they get sent home and their home is not the ideal place and it's a major— takes a village.

如果他们是家里的顶梁柱,而这场病让他们彻底垮了呢?

What if they're the principal breadwinner and they're devastated by this?

也许家里的另一个成员就不得不出门工作,而不是照顾他们。

Maybe the other family member has to go out and work as opposed to care for them.

最令人沮丧的事情之一,是Mass General康复科主任告诉我的——我们一直在和他谈——他说:‘Bill,Lucy能达到现在的恢复水平,真是了不起。’

One of the most depressing things I was told by the head of rehab at, actually, Mass General— we've been talking to— he said, 'Bill, what Lucy's achieved is remarkable.'

她得到了难以置信的照顾。

She's had incredible care.

一般的人,第一,他们不会做这个手术。

The typical person, one, they wouldn't do the surgery.

第二,就算做了手术,通常的病人出院时往往会进养老院,因为家里人照顾不了他们,然后几个月后就会因为肺炎去世——就是因为养老院能提供的护理水平就是那样。

Two, if they do the surgery, the typical patient ends up in a nursing home when they check out of the hospital because the family can't take care of them, and they die a few months later from pneumonia because of just the care that can be achieved in a nursing home.

这真的太让人沮丧了。

It's super depressing.

所以这就是那种我在经济上没有限制、能够全力帮助她的情况,因此我们可以把护理做到最好。

And so this is one of the cases where I'm financially unconstrained in my ability to help her, and so we can maximize the care.

现在,我们要在这个研究所里想办法解决的是,怎么才能让所有人都能享受到这样的护理,而科技将会起到很大的帮助。

Now, what we're going to try to figure out in the institute is how we do this in a way that everyone can have the benefit of the care, and technology is going to help a lot.

一个优秀的语言治疗师可能每小时收费五百美元。

A great speech therapist could be $500 an hour.

保险公司会支付其中一定比例的费用,但只限一段时间。

Insurance will pay for whatever percentage of that, but only for some period of time.

但人们可以持续康复,好几年之后仍在恢复。

But people can keep recovering years and years later.

但当然,人工智能可以成为一个了不起的语言治疗师。

But of course, AI could be an amazing speech therapist.

所以科技有很多方式能帮助我们帮助人们从这些损伤中恢复。

So there are lots of ways that technology is going to enable us to help people recover from these injuries.

顺带一提,这一切——你知道,我们正在这样称呼它——重点是大脑康复、恢复和长寿,对吧?

And by the way, this all, you know, we're calling it— the focus is brain rehab, recovery, and longevity, right?

大脑康复研究所是做什么的?

What does a brain rehab recovery institute do?

它专注于大脑恢复和身体恢复。

It focuses on brain recovery and your physical recovery.

大脑加上身体恢复,本质上就是长寿。

The brain plus your physical recovery, it's fundamentally longevity.

另外,医院不太擅长的就是营养,对吧?

And the other thing that hospitals aren't very good at is nutrition, right?

医院的饭菜简直吓人,对吧?

The food in hospitals is frightening, right?

比如有人心脏病发作了,你知道,结果第二天早上他们吃的却是煎饼加橙汁。

They have someone who has a, you know, heart attack, and the next morning they're having, like, pancakes served with orange juice.

以Lucy的情况来说,我们每顿饭都为她专门做。

In Lucy's case, we made food for her for every meal.

这个研究所会有非常好的食物,因为营养至关重要。

The institute's going to have amazing food because nutrition is critical.

所以,利用这种经济条件,我们可以做很多事情。

So there are a lot of things we can do taking advantage of this financial circumstance.

我要利用它来建一个最优化的机构,而且我认为最终它能自给自足。

I'm going to use it in a way that will enable us to build something optimal and I think ultimately self-sustaining.
M2
M215:08

你真是一位了不起的父亲。

You're an incredible father.
M1
M115:10

这也是一个很棒的回应。如果我做不到,我会觉得非常难受。我会是世界上最沮丧的人之一。

What an amazing response, too. I would feel terrible if I couldn't do it. I would be one of the most frustrated people in the world.

我真的觉得自己就是天生要来帮助她的——我所知道的一切都能用上。

I literally feel like I was designed to help her— everything I know how to do.
M2
M215:26

你提到了Oura Ring,还有Oura Ring上的数据。

You mentioned the Oura Ring, the data on the Oura Ring.

是什么数据表明有异常情况——

What was the data that indicated something was—
M1
M115:31

我一直和Oura的CEO保持联系。

So I've been in touch with the CEO of Oura.

他其实是在Twitter上联系我的。我觉得你当然可以通过Apple Watch看到这些数据,希望Oura Ring也能做到。事情是这样的,如果你看她心率飙升的情况——我确实把数据发在了Twitter上——大概在九点钟左右,她的脉搏突然急速飙升,然后又有一种下降,看起来有点不寻常。

He actually reached out on Twitter, and I think you can certainly see that with an Apple Watch and hopefully with an Oura Ring. So what happened was, if you look at her spike, I actually put it on Twitter, at like 9 o'clock or so, there was a very quick spike in her pulse and then kind of a drop-off that looked kind of unusual.

如果你把这种飙升和下降,跟一个人摔倒的情况结合起来看——比如Apple Watch在有人摔倒时会发出警报。

And if you combine that spike and a drop-off with someone falling, like the Apple Watch has an alert when someone falls.
M2
M216:02

对。

Right.
M1
M116:03

嗯,如果这种情况发生了,而且是伴随着心率大幅飙升的时候发生,那你可以合理地推测。

Well, if that happens and it happens when there's a huge spike and there are—you can reasonably assume.

你可以说,他们是不是心脏病发作了?

You can say, did they have a heart attack?

是不是发生了别的什么?

Did they have a whatever?

这些都是你可以去观察的。

These are things you can look at.

我觉得Oura Ring也应该具备同样的功能,而且我相信他们正在研发这个。

And I think Oura Ring should have the same capability, and I think they're working on it.
M2
M216:18

你如何让自己的心态保持健康?

How do you keep your mind in a healthy place?

你做什么来让自己头脑保持清醒?

What do you do to keep your head right?
M1
M116:23

我几乎每天早上都打网球,或者做某种形式的锻炼。

I play tennis almost every morning or do some form of exercise.

我觉得这可能是最重要的一件事,因为这是一天中我唯一完全专注于迎面而来的球的时候,而不是想着其他任何事情。

I think that's probably the most important thing I do because it's the one thing I do over the course of the day where I'm completely focused on the ball that's coming at me, uh, as opposed to whatever else is going on.

所以对我来说,这是一种非常重要的冥想形式。

So I think that is a really important form of meditation for me.

这是其中一点。

That's one.

我晚上睡个好觉。

I got a good night's sleep.

我花时间陪家人,诸如此类的事情。

I spent time with my family, things like that.
M2
M216:47

你还在冥想吗?

Do you still meditate?
M1
M116:49

我有一阵子没冥想了。

I haven't in a while.

嗯,在那个充满挑战的一年里我确实冥想过。你知道,我当时正在经历离婚。

Uh, I did for this challenging year, and I, you know, I was in the middle of a divorce.

我当时差不多是独自一人,冥想真的很有帮助。

I was kind of on my own, and it really helped.

而且我可能应该重新开始。你是怎么应对这一切的?

And I probably should. How do you manage it all?
M2
M217:04

我是说,你有四个活跃的上市公司实体,你要处理和你女儿这件事,你还有个七岁的孩子,你还想当一个好丈夫。

I mean, you have four active public entities, you have this with your daughter, you have a seven-year-old, you want to be a great husband.

你是如何协调所有这些事情的?

How do you harmonize all of these things?
M1
M117:17

Pershing Square从我创立之初到现在已经走了很远的路。

So Pershing Square has come a long way from when I started it.

我刚创立它的时候,我差不多就是个打杂的,所有主意都是我想出来的,然后有个分析师帮我执行。

When I started it, I was sort of the chief bottle washer guy, and I would come up with all the ideas and I had an analyst that would help me prosecute them.

如果涉及激进投资,那也是我出马,等等。

And if there was activism, I was the guy, et cetera.

在过去22年里,我们组建了一支非常出色的团队。

Over 22 years, we've built an amazing team.

我们这个行业的特点是,一个人在一家公司的半衰期很短,大家都在互相挖角,顶尖人才可以跳到别家,光去报到就能拿到上亿美元的签约奖金,诸如此类。

We're in an industry where the half-life of someone who works for a firm, people are poaching, the top people can move from one place to another and get huge $100 million bonuses for showing up, things like this.

所以这个行业的员工流动率很高。

And the result is a lot of turnover in the industry.

但Pershing Square完全没有人员流动。

We have no turnover at Pershing Square.
M2
M217:51

这是好事还是坏事?

Is that good or bad?
M1
M117:52

嗯,这是我们……我们确实没有人员流动。

Well, it's something that we've— we've had no turnover.

显然我们也犯过一些错误,这些年也替换过一些人。

Obviously we've made some mistakes and we've replaced some people over time.

但你看投资团队,这支投资团队至今已经九年没变过,只是新增了几个人。

But if you look at the investment team, the investment team has been the same team for now 9 years with a couple of new additions.

这其实是一件非常好的事情。

And that's actually a really good thing.

如果人员像旋转门一样不断轮换,你没法真正确定自己能不能长久地信任这些人。

If you have a constant revolving door of new people, you don't really know that you can trust people over time.

他们真的在跟你说实话吗?

Are they really telling you the truth?

他们真的会告诉你某个具体情况的全部风险和回报吗?

Are they really telling you all the risks and rewards of a particular situation?

当你跟人建立了关系,一起工作了九年,又有这种透明、坦诚的文化,我根本不会去怀疑投资团队任何成员告诉我的任何事。

When you've built a relationship with people and you work with them for 9 years and you have this culture of transparency and candidness, I don't for a second ever question anything that's being told to me by a member of the investment team.

他们给我的就是直截了当、不加修饰的事实。

They're telling me the flat, candid truth.

那是一个让人非常安心的状态。

That's a very comfortable place.

所以回答你的问题,Pershing的投资流程由一个非常有经验的团队运行得非常出色。

So the answer to your question is the Pershing investment process is incredibly well run by a very experienced team.

我在其中扮演重要角色,拥有最终决定权,但我不再是那个贡献大多数想法的人。

That I play an important role in, I have the ultimate say, but I am no longer the guy that generates the bulk of the ideas.

我现在只贡献投资组合里的小部分想法,这样也挺好。

I'm someone that generates a minority of the ideas in the portfolio, so that's helpful.

至于公司本身,它的架构是Ben负责Pershing Square的很多日常运营事务。

And then the business itself, the way it's structured is Ben is responsible for running a lot of the business elements of Pershing Square.

这样就能让我解放出来去思考,去处理更多战略层面的事,也能偶尔冒出一些想法。

So that frees me up to think, it frees me up to work on more strategic stuff, and it frees me up to come up with the occasional kind of idea.

所以Pershing某种程度上是在自己运转。

So Pershing kind of takes care of itself.

嗯,我们有好几个上市实体。

Well, we have a number of public entities.

我们有一个非常棒的会计团队。

We have an amazing accounting team.

这些上市公司做的事情都差不多。

And those public companies all sort of do the same thing.

它们其实就是——有一家管理公司从我们拥有的实体那里收取管理费,那就是Pershing Square Inc.,股票代码PS。

They're really just— there's the management company that earns fees from the entities we own, that's Pershing Square Inc., PS ticker.

还有两只公开上市的基金,实际持有相同的投资组合。

There are 2 funds that are publicly traded that own effectively the same portfolio.

我们对这些实体承担着一定的治理责任。

There's certain governance responsibilities we have for those entities.

但实际上,它们每一个都有独立的董事会。

But they're really actually, each of them have independent boards of directors.

所以我们在那里的角色更像是一个外部投资管理人。

So our role there is as the kind of external investment manager.

这两只基金的董事会都非常出色。

We have excellent boards at both of those.

一般来说,封闭式基金的董事会多少有点拿不出手。

The typical closed-end fund board is a bit of an embarrassment.

我不知道你对这个领域关注多少,但你应该看到过Boaz Weinstein参与代理权争夺战。

I don't know how closely you follow the space, but you've seen Boaz Weinstein going into proxy contests.

典型的封闭式基金董事会是一群……不是说要——我不想点名批评谁。

The typical closed-end fund board is a group of people who— not to be— I don't want to pick any.

我不知道。

I don't know.

比如说,就拿BlackRock来说吧。

Say BlackRock for the moment.

我记得在哪儿读到过,他们坐在86个——同样的6位董事坐在86家封闭式基金的董事会上。

I think I read somewhere that they sit on 86— the same 6 directors sit on 86 closed-end fund boards.

你坐在86个董事会上,很难做真正的治理。

It's hard to do real governance when you sit on 86 boards of directors.

ISS规定的典型上限是4个。

The typical limitation is 4 by ISS.

我们聘请的是真正意义上的董事。

We hired actually real directors.

我们按真正董事的标准给他们付酬。

We pay them like real directors.

他们不会同时在另外50个董事会任职——所以我们的董事会质量非常高。

They're not serving on multiple, 50 other— so we have really good boards.

而我们做的事情从根本上说很简单。

And what we do is fundamentally simple.

所以Pershing某种程度上算是自我运转。

So Pershing kind of runs itself to some degree.

就是因为授权、激励机制和利益一致。

Just because of delegation, incentives, alignment.

我们的利益一致性最好,因为没人按单只股票拿报酬。

We have the best alignment because no one's paid on individual stocks.

他们的薪酬是根据业绩来定的。

They're based on performance.

归根结底,业绩将是我们管理公司最大的驱动力,因为底层资产的复利增长会带来我们费用收入的增长。

At the end of the day, performance is going to be the biggest driver of our management company because the compounding of the underlying assets is what grows our fee stream.

所以这就是一个利益高度一致的组织。

So it's just a very aligned entity.

我持有公司大约45%的股份。

I own about 45% of the company.

团队另外持有,我想想,大约35%的公司股份。

The team owns another, I think, 35% of the company.

然后还有一部分少数股权由公众和一些与我们共同投资的战略投资者持有。

And then we have a minority interest held by the public and some strategic investors that invested with us.

所以——如果你把利益一致性搞对了,把人选搞对了,还有一些刻在石碑上的原则,而且你已经坚持了一段时间。

So it's If you get the alignment right, you get the people right, and you've got some principles written on a stone tablet and you've been doing it for a while.
M2
M221:18

但你超级好胜。

But you're super competitive.
M1
M121:19

没错。

Sure.
M2
M221:20

我知道你想成为世界上最好的投资者。

I know you want to be the best investor in the world.
M1
M121:22

当然。

Sure.
M2
M221:23

所以这就像一条路,然后还有另一条路,就是作为父亲和丈夫的角色。

And so this is like one path, and then there's another path that's like dad and husband.

没错。

Sure.
M1
M121:31

我想说,在过去——你知道,这个AOI项目的筹备,在过去60到90天里确实占据了我不少心思,你也想象得到,因为我在组建团队。

I would say the one thing I would say in the last, you know, the setup of this AOI thing has consumed some mindshare, mine, as you would expect, over the last 60 or 90 days because I'm assembling the team.

就像——有一个时刻,有点像我们发起代理权争夺战,控制了董事会,现在还得引入一位新的CEO。

Just like with— there's a moment, it's a bit like we ran a proxy contest, we took control of a board of directors, now we've got to bring in a new CEO.

一旦我们找到了CEO,团队到位并对外公布,诸如此类之后,我就不会参与日常运营了。

Once we bring in the CEO and the team's in place and announced and everything else, I don't get involved in the day-to-day operations.

AOI的情况也会一样。

And the same thing's going to be true for the AOI.

从某种意义上说,它会像另一家被投公司,尽管我会——我们所有人都会加入董事会。

It's going to be like another portfolio company in some sense, although I'll— we're all going to sit on the board.

我会担任董事会主席。

I'm going to chair the board.

但你知道,这有点像……我觉得我不可能在筹备AOI的同时,还进行代理权争夺战。

But there is a, you know, it is similar to, I don't think I could be doing setting up the AOI and we had a proxy contest underway at the same time.
M2
M222:12

AOI就是Ackman Oxman Institute,给在听的各位说明一下。

AOI is the Ackman Oxman Institute, just for everybody listening.
M1
M122:17

是的。

Yes.
M3
M322:18

每隔几年,就会有新的平台登上每个精明广告主媒体计划的榜首。

Every few years, a new platform earns its place at the top of every smart advertiser's media plan.

那些早一步发现它的人,会建立起难以被追赶的优势。

The people who find it early build advantages that are very hard to close.

AppLovin刚刚在ad tech历史上创造了最耀眼的战绩,现在他们把这个引擎开放给了像你这样的企业。

AppLovin just had the most remarkable run in ad tech history, and now they've opened that engine to businesses like yours.

每天有超过十亿人玩手机游戏,他们是专注的,不是在刷信息流,没有任何信息流在争夺他们的注意力。

Over a billion people play mobile games every day, focused, not scrolling, with no feed competing for their attention.

AppLovin把你的品牌放在对的客户面前,并且纯粹为你的增长而优化。

AppLovin puts your brand in front of the right customers and optimizes purely for your growth.

像Wayfair、Kitsch、Ridge和Nectar这样的品牌已经借助它扩大规模,而他们的大多数竞争对手根本不知道它的存在。

Brands like Wayfair, Kitsch, Ridge, and Nectar are already scaling on it while most of their competitors don't even know it exists.

准备好找到你的下一百万个客户了吗?

Ready to find your next million customers?

前往applovin.com/shane,今天就开启你的第一个投放活动。

Go to applovin.com/shane and launch your first campaign today.

我用HeyGen创建了一个自己的AI版本。

I built an AI version of myself with HeyGen.

你接下来在这里看到的,是我的数字分身。

What you're about to see in here is my digital avatar.

我问了它,为什么有些专业人士能积累受众,而大多数人却无人问津,它这么回答。

I asked it why some professionals build an audience while most stay invisible, and here's what it said.

嘿Shane,现在脱颖而出的专业人士,并不是最有才华的。

Hey Shane, the professionals breaking out right now aren't the most talented ones.

他们是最常露脸的。

They're the most visible ones.

这就是他们的优势。

That's their edge.

他们频繁地出现在视频里,其他人都跟不上这个节奏。

They show up on video constantly and nobody else can keep the pace.

你只需要录一次自己,我就能帮你填补那个差距,让你成为大家信任的那个人。

Record yourself once, and I close that gap so you become the face people trust.

这就是HeyGen。

That's HeyGen.

录15秒的自己,就能获得一个分身,不拍摄也能持续发布内容,这样你就不用成为全职内容创作者了。

Record yourself for 15 seconds and get an avatar that keeps you posting without filming, so you don't need to become a full-time content creator.

已经有3000万人使用它,从理财顾问、房地产经纪人,到《财富》100强中的85%的公司。

30 Million people already use it, from financial advisors and real estate agents to 85% of the Fortune 100.

你的前3个视频在heygen.com/tkp免费。

Your first 3 videos are free at heygen.com/tkp.

就是heygen.com/tkp。

That's heygen.com/tkp.
M2
M223:58

你什么时候思路最清晰?

When do you do your best thinking?
M1
M124:00

其实通常是在度假的时候。

Often it's when I'm on vacation, actually.

我最好的那些想法,往往是在我身心完全放松,或者洗澡的时候冒出来的。

Some of my best ideas are ones where I'm literally totally relaxed or I'm in the shower.
M2
M224:07

你对泡沫做过很多研究。

You've done a lot of research about bubbles.

我很好奇,比如,你会怎么解释什么是泡沫?

I'm curious, like, how would you explain what a bubble is?
M1
M124:13

泡沫就是人性使然——当有很多钱被赚到的时候,人们会非常FOMO,想参与进去,于是越来越多的钱进入同一个交易,直到出现高估,然后是亢奋,最终泡沫破裂。

A bubble is when human nature, uh, when a lot of money is being made and people have a lot of FOMO and they want to participate in having money being made, and it leads more and more money going into the same trade, if you will, until overvaluation takes place and then ebullience, and then eventually the bubble bursts.
M2
M224:37

它们似乎都发生在技术变革的时期,比如铁路、汽车、晶体管、互联网。

They seem to happen around these technological changes like railroads, automobiles, transistors, the internet.
M4
M424:43

没错。

Sure.
M2
M224:44

我们现在处于一个泡沫中吗?

Are we in one now?
M1
M124:45

嗯,我们当然处于一个转型期。

Well, we're certainly in a transition.

你可以说,AI绝对具有变革性,而且我认为它是我们所有人一生中遇到的最具变革性的技术。

You could say AI is absolutely transformational and it's the most transformational technology I think of all of our respective lifetimes.

确实有一些泡沫式的要素。

There are bubble-like elements.

我觉得,在私人风险投资领域,有很多疯狂的事情在发生。

There's a lot of crazy stuff going on in the private world of venture, I think.

我们开始投资一些——说到泡沫,我们Pershing现在就在投资一些风险投资阶段的初创公司。

We're starting to invest in some— talk about a bubble, we at Pershing are now investing in some venture-stage businesses.

两周前吧,我们见了一家公司,他们当时并没有在融资。

Met with a company, let's say two weeks ago, and they weren't raising money.

两天后,他们完成了一轮融资。

Two days later, they closed a round.

他们被某个投资人抢先了,那个人按4亿美元的估值投了5000万美元。

They were preempted by some investor who put $50 million in at a $400 million valuation.

然后两周后,他们又按10亿美元的估值融了5000万美元。

And then two weeks later, they raised another $50 million at a billion-dollar valuation.

所以有很多人害怕错过未来。

So there's a lot of people fearing missing out on the future.

所以大量资金涌入风险投资,竞争激烈,很多抢先投资,导致估值非常高。

And so a lot of capital going into venture, a lot of competition, and a lot of preempting, and leading to very high valuations.

我看到一家公司的A轮融资,投前估值50亿美元。

I saw a company Series A round at a $5 billion pre-money.
M2
M225:46

你怎么避免那种FOMO呢?

How do you avoid that FOMO?
M1
M125:48

这取决于你处在人生的哪个阶段。

It depends on where you are in life.

沃伦·巴菲特在60年的职业生涯中,以他的纪律性而著称。

Warren Buffett was remarkable for his discipline over a 60-year career.

而实际上有趣的是,在上一轮真正的泡沫,也就是互联网泡沫中,伯克希尔的股票跌到了历史最低点左右,因为人们说他是不是不行了,而其他所有人都在赚钱。

And actually interestingly, in the last real bubble, the internet bubble, that's when Berkshire stock hit like an all-time low because people said he's kind of lost it while all these other people are making money.

他就是不参与,只是一直坚持下去。

He just didn't participate, but he just soldiered on.

我认为这是短期视角和长期视角的问题。

I think it's a question of short-term versus long-term perspective.
M2
M226:12

你现在会给那些可能正试图融资的创始人什么建议?现在是融资的好时机。

What advice would you give founders right now who might be trying to raise? It's a great time to raise capital.
M1
M126:19

而且,假设你融到了资金,不要花得太快,别以为钱会永远在那里。

And assuming you raise the capital, don't spend it so quickly expecting money will be there forever.

这让人想起互联网泡沫时期,那些可疑的商业模式几乎可以获得无限的资金。

What this is reminiscent of is in the internet bubble, there was effectively an unlimited amount of capital available for, kind of, suspect business plans.

然后某个周末,《巴伦周刊》上有一篇文章,列出了公开市场上所有互联网公司以及它们还剩多少现金。

And then there was a piece in Barron's one weekend, and it listed all of the internet companies in the public markets and how much cash they had left.

根据它们的烧钱速度,算出还有多少个月就会把钱烧光。

Based on, kind of, their burn rate, how many months to go before they went to zero.

那可能就是在市场崩盘前一周。

That was probably the week before the market blew up.

一家没有资本的私营公司,会有一种自我筹钱的纪律约束。

What happens to a private company that has no capital is a certain discipline associated with bootstrapping yourself.

然后你拿到了五千万或者一个亿美元,你完全改变了花钱的方式,觉得任何时候需要钱,都能从市场融资。

And then you take in $50 million or $100 million and you completely change the way you deploy capital, betting that anytime you need money, you could just tap the markets.

总有一天会出事,会来一场爆炸性的危机。

There will come a time, there'll be some form of a blowup.

一场比较高调的事件,大家亏一大笔钱,然后带来一次重置。

A pretty high-profile one where people lose a whole bunch of money, and that will cause a reset.

我觉得那些花钱有纪律、能保证好几年资金链的公司才能活下来,而那些三个月就得去筹钱的就会死掉。

And I think the companies that are disciplined in how they spend the capital so they have years of runway will be the survivors, and the ones that have to raise money in 3 months will be gone.

我给创始人的建议是,把每分钱都当成自己的钱来花,花得很小心,不要指望那种热情高涨、唾手可得的资金会永远存在。

My advice to founders is treat every dollar as if it's your own money and spend it really carefully, and don't expect the kind of ebullient, freely available capital thing to exist forever.
M2
M227:35

所以现在就去筹钱,但把钱放在银行里。

So raise money now, but keep it in the bank.

不要花掉。

Don't spend it.
M1
M127:38

或者有节制地花。

Or spend it judiciously.
M2
M227:41

你怎么看投资——你通常做公开市场投资——和风险投资这种私募市场投资之间的区别?

How do you see the difference between investing, which is what you've typically done in the public markets versus private markets, in terms of ventures?
M1
M127:48

好的。

Sure.

在公开市场,我们投资的是我们所说的超级持久增长公司,也就是各自领域里最占主导地位的企业。

So public markets, we're investing in what we call super durable growth companies, businesses that are the most dominant companies in their respective spaces.

它们利润很高。

They're highly profitable.

资产负债表很强劲。

They have strong balance sheets.

关键的成功因素在于预测它们能否持续获得或维持市场份额、增长业务并拥有定价权。

And the key sort of success factor is predicting kind of their ability to continue to either gain or maintain market share and grow their business and have pricing power.

在公开市场,CEO确实重要,但我们一直认为,如果我们不喜欢这个CEO,我们可以找到一个更好的。

In the public markets, yes, the CEO matters, but we've always had the view, well, if we don't like the CEO, we can find a better one.

但在风险投资里,你真正押注的是人,而不是商业计划。

In venture, you're really betting on the person more than the business plan.

你投资的公司可能还没有收入,或者正在亏损。

And you're investing in a company that is maybe pre-revenue or it's losing money.

你赌的是它们能以足够快的速度增长,最终从资本消耗者变成现金产生者。

You're betting on their ability to grow at a fast enough rate that ultimately they go from being a capital consumer to one that's going to generate cash over time.

所以有一些相似之处,但比起公开市场,它更依赖创始人和CEO。

So it has some similar elements, but it's much more founder-dependent, CEO-dependent than the public markets.

最优秀的公开市场公司,如果CEO出了事,你可以找到另一个很棒的人来管理。

The best public market companies, if something happens to the CEO, you can find another great person to run it.
M2
M228:51

最优秀的私营公司,如果没有了CEO,你可能……你对想法和人的权重分别是多少?

The best private companies, without the CEO, you probably... How much are you weighting sort of the idea versus the person?
M1
M129:01

我更看重人而不是想法,因为往往最初的想法并不是最终成功的那一个。

I weight the person more than the idea because often the original idea is not the idea that turns out to be the success.

创始人会遇到障碍,最初的想法行不通。

And the founder is going to hit a roadblock; the original idea doesn't work.

我最成功的风投项目,当时我并不喜欢那个想法。

My most successful venture investment, I didn't like the idea.

那是Coupang,Bom Kim创立的,他的商业计划是打造韩国的Groupon。

This was Coupang, which was Bom Kim, and his business plan was to create the Groupon of South Korea.

即使在那个时候,2009年,我认为Groupon是一个非常糟糕的商业模式,但他非常有说服力地论证了为什么韩国是开展互联网业务的绝佳地点,而且我喜欢他这个人。

Even at that time, which was 2009, I thought Groupon was a really bad business model, but he made a very powerful case for why South Korea was a great place to launch an internet business, and I liked him.

最终,他建成了韩国的Amazon,跟最初的商业模式几乎没什么关系。

Ultimately, he built the Amazon of South Korea, really nothing to do with the original business model.

所以最成功的案例,你赌的是他们应对出现的问题并在过程中找到商业模式的能力。

So the most successful, you're really betting on their ability to manage through the challenges that emerge and figure out a business model over time.
M2
M229:47

人工智能在怎样改变投资这个行业?

How is AI changing the investment profession?
M1
M129:50

投资者最重要的事情就是评估风险。

The most important thing an investor has to do is assess the risk.

我的意思是,企业的价值就是它在整个生命周期里产生的现金的现值。

I mean, the value of a business is the present value of the cash it generates over its life.

而且它的生命周期,你知道,早期的年份比后面的年份更重要。

And its life, you know, the early years of the life matter more than the later years.

但如果你想要对一家企业做非流动性的长期投资,你就需要以相当高的置信度去预测这家企业10年后、20年后、30年后会是什么样子。

But you need to predict with a pretty high degree of confidence what a business is going to look like 10 years out, 20 years out, 30 years out if you want to make an illiquid long-term investment in the business.

即使是流动性投资,我们也是这么看的。

And we look at even liquid investments that way.

你想投资的东西应该是,如果股市关闭10年,你也乐意持有它。

You want to invest in something that if the stock market were to shut for 10 years, you're happy to own it.

这是一个好纪律。

It's good discipline.

所以你需要仔细思考的是颠覆的风险。

So the thing that you need to think through is the risk of disruption.

而AI所做的,就是大大增加了颠覆的风险。

And what AI has done is massively increased the risk of disruption.

所以你必须对你投资的企业非常非常谨慎。

So you got to be very, very thoughtful about the businesses you invest in.

说到企业,回到沃伦·巴菲特。

Businesses, go back to Warren Buffett.

如果你回去读沃伦·巴菲特,这个有史以来最伟大的投资者,他当时就没能预见到互联网带来的颠覆风险,比如说。

If you go back and read Warren Buffett, the greatest investor of all time, he was not able to perceive the risks of disruption created by the internet, for example.

维基百科颠覆了《世界图书百科全书》。

Wikipedia disrupting World Book.

嗯,现在我们有了AI。

Well, now we have AI.

这是一个更复杂的问题。

It's a much more complicated problem.

我们所有人肯定都会因为AI,在某个未能预见到颠覆风险的业务上看起来像个傻瓜。

All of us are guaranteed to look foolish with one business or another that we didn't anticipate the risk of disruption because of AI.
M2
M230:57

你觉得哪些企业会因为AI而变得更有价值?

What businesses do you think become more valuable as a result of AI?
M1
M131:01

其实我昨天见了Cognition的一位创始人,这是一家非常有趣的公司。他们的软件,或者说他们的AI,实际上能让银行、大型金融机构这类企业——它们因为多年来的大量并购而花费巨资处理遗留系统——重写COBOL代码。

Actually met with one of the founders of Cognition yesterday, very interesting company, and their software or their AI in effect enables banks, big financial institutions, for example, that spend a ton of money on dealing with legacy systems because of an agglomeration of acquisitions they did over time.

他们可以把COBOL重写成现代代码,而且只需几天,而不是好几个月。

They can rewrite the COBOL into modern code and do it in a matter of days as opposed to many months.

而且我认为,因为AI,大型金融机构的运营成本会显著下降。

And I think the cost to run big financial institutions is going to come down meaningfully because of AI.

可以说,那些在科技上砸大钱的公司将能把一部分成本降下来。它们会变得高效得多。

Big spenders, if you will, on tech are going to be able to bring some of that down. They're going to become a lot more efficient.

那么问题来了,它们能保住这些利润吗?

Now, the question is, are they going to be able to keep the profit?

如果所有人都被迫使用最好的软件来更高效地运营业务、变得更“AI原生”,那么问题就是它们能否留住利润,还是利润或利润率会转给客户。

If everyone's going to be forced to use the best software to run their business more efficiently and become more AI native, and the question is whether they get to keep that profit or whether the profit or the margin gets passed on to the customer.

而这取决于业务的性质和定价权。

And that's a function of the nature of the business and pricing power.

通常来说,钱本身的问题在于它是一种商品,而银行做的就是提供钱的生意。

The problem with money generally is it's a commodity and banks are in the business of providing money.

所以这是一个复杂的问题,取决于具体业务。

So it's a complicated question, depends on the business.

我认为AI将催生许多以前根本无法创建的企业。

I think AI will enable the creation of many businesses that heretofore could not be created before.

而且AI会让那些从未当过企业家的人有机会成为企业家。

And AI will enable people to become entrepreneurs who've never been entrepreneurs before.

就拿Meta最近隔夜发布的东西来说,我还没机会玩一下,但办公室的人都在说它多好用,我想是Muse吧,管它呢。

Just even the most recent overnight release of Meta, I haven't had a chance to play around with it, but guys in the office were talking about how easy it is to use, I think it's Muse, whatever it is.
M2
M232:32

对,Muse AI。

Yeah, Muse AI.
M1
M132:34

是的,现在人们可以轻松创建自己的代理来帮他们做事。

Yeah, how easy it is for people to now create their own agents to do stuff for them.

改进的速度是我见过的最快的。

The pace of improvement is by far the fastest of anything I've ever seen.

想想以前的微软,1.0到2.0版本,重大更新之间可能隔了两年甚至更久。

If you think about Microsoft in the old days, 1.0 versus 2.0, it might be a couple years or more between updates of consequence.

而现在,重大更新几天内就来了。

Here you get an update of consequence in days.

有点像开特斯拉,一夜之间他们就更新了软件。

It's a bit like driving a Tesla and overnight they're updating the software.
M2
M232:59

作为投资者,这会不会让你害怕?

Does that scare you as an investor?
M1
M133:00

我一般不害怕,所以用“害怕”这个词可能不太对,但我想说,你必须非常仔细地考虑护城河以及它们到底有多宽。

I'm generally not frightened, so scare is probably the wrong word, but I would say you have to be very thoughtful about the moats and how wide they really are.

而且我认为对于投资者来说,如何预测颠覆的风险是最复杂的问题。

And I think it's the most complicated question for an investor, how to predict the risk of disruption.

那些看起来是世界上最具主导地位的企业,有些就会直接消失。

Businesses that seem like the most dominant businesses in the world, there will be some that will just disappear.
M2
M234:44

你是怎么从“我对这家公司感兴趣”到我们现在开出10亿美元支票投资进去的?

How do you go from, I'm interested in this company, to now we're writing a check for $1 billion into it?
M1
M134:50

通常不是我们一觉醒来听说过的公司。

Usually it's not a company we just woke up and heard of.

我们寻找的是世界上最好的企业。

So we're looking for the best businesses in the world.

所以随着时间的推移,我们慢慢建立了一个,怎么说,一个跟踪了很久的公司库。

So over time we kind of build this, you know, call it a library of companies that we've followed for a long period of time.

我们一直看好这些业务。

We've liked the business.

但我们没有机会拥有它,因为虽然做了很多功课,但我们觉得,你看,按这个价格,35倍市盈率什么的,我们很难达到20%以上的回报率,那是我们的目标。

And we haven't had a chance to own it because we may have done a lot of work, but we said, look, at this price, at 35 times earnings or whatever, it's hard for us to get to a 20-plus percent rate of return, which is our ambition.

所以我们做了功课,然后因为估值问题先搁置了。

So we do the work and then put it aside on valuation concerns.

然后我们等待时机,要么发生宏观经济事件,比如COVID给了我们买入这类业务的机会,甚至SaaS的,对。

And then we wait for the day that either some macro event happens, COVID gives us a chance to buy that kind of a business, or even the SaaS, yeah.
M2
M235:31

SaaS末日。

SaaS-pocalypse.
M1
M135:32

这导致几乎所有与软件相关的东西都被重新定价。

Which caused pretty much everything to do with software to get repriced.

这给了我们机会,比如买入微软,在我们看来估值非常有吸引力,还有其他一些非常优质的企业。

That gave us an opportunity, for example, to buy Microsoft, in our view, at a very attractive valuation and a host of other really high-quality businesses.

但流程通常是团队中有两个人对一家公司进行深入研究。

But the process is we typically have 2 members of the team do a deep dive on a company.

他们显然会从SEC文件、10-K、10-Q、电话会议记录开始,然后我们会整理出我们试图理解的关键问题。

They'll start obviously with kind of the SEC filings, 10-Ks, 10-Qs, conference call transcripts, then we'll kind of assemble what the key issues are that we're trying to understand.

我们在专家网络上花了不少时间。

We spend a fair amount of time on expert networks.

我们会和公司的前员工交谈。

We'll talk to former employees of a company.

我们会和其他行业专家交谈。

We'll talk to other industry experts.

我们会和竞争对手的人交谈,以了解根本问题。

We'll talk to people at competitors to kind of get to the underlying issues.

然后我们会建立一个业务模型,评估一下这个方案行不行得通?

And then we kind of build a model of the business and kind of get an assessment of how does this pencil?

按我们今天能买入的价格,能产生什么样的回报?

What kind of return does this generate at the price we can buy it for today?

这些都是其中的一些要素。

Those are some of the elements.

然后那个团队会准备一份演示文稿,向整个小组汇报。

Then that team will put together a deck and they'll present it to the group.

不过,那个两人团队通常不是由Ryan或者我本人组成的。

Now, that 2-person team usually is not Ryan or myself.

Ryan是我们的CIO。

Ryan's our CIO.

我想,我大概会称他为投资组合经理吧。

I guess I'd call it the portfolio manager.

我们自己会做独立的评估,这让我们掌握足够的信息,足以去提出那些该问的关键问题。

And we do our own sort of independent assessment, which gives us enough information to be dangerous to ask the right questions.

然后还有团队的其他成员,另外五个人,他们没有像我们那样做过那些前期工作。

And then we have the balance of the team, another 5 people who haven't done the work in the same.

然后这个小组聚在一起讨论一项投资。

And that group comes together to discuss an investment.

会议的结果可能是决定投资这家公司,也可能说,好吧,还有一些悬而未决的问题。

And out of that meeting may come a decision to make an investment in the company, or it may say, okay, there's still some open issues.

咱们得把这个顾虑彻底弄清楚。

Let's get to the bottom of this concern.

然后他们回去继续做功课,再回来跟团队汇报。

And then they'll go back and do the work and come back to the team.

这就是基本的流程。

That's the basic process.
M2
M237:02

你们内部在投资流程中是怎么用AI的?是为了加快工作,还是能做平时做不到的事情?

How are you guys using AI internally in that investment process to either speed up the work or do work that you normally couldn't do?
M1
M137:08

嗯,目前我们更多是把AI当作研究工具,用来了解某个相关的主题。

Yeah, today we're really using AI more as a research tool to learn about a certain subject that's relevant.

我觉得它还没有深入到我们的流程里。

It hasn't, I would say, crept too deeply into our process.

我们不用它来建模型。

We're not using it to build models.

在一个人人都能平等使用AI的世界里,很难形成差异化。

In a world where everyone has the same access to AI, it's hard to be differentiated.

我觉得留给人类的,是那种跳出框架的思维、创造性的过程,以及从审视所有事实中获得的洞察力;而AI更像是对过去一切事物的回顾总结。

I think what's left to humanity is kind of the outside-the-box thinking, the creative process, the insight that's gleaned from looking at all the facts, whereas AI is a bit of a review of everything that happened before.

如果你看看我们最成功的投资,通常都是我们做了别人没做过的事情。

If you look at our most successful investments, they've usually been cases where we've done something that someone hasn't done before.

比如在大流行病爆发前买入信用违约互换,或者投资一家破产公司的股票,再或者在金融危机前做空AAA级公司的信用。

Buying credit default swaps before a pandemic, for example, or investing in the stock of a bankrupt company or shorting the credit of a AAA company before the financial crisis.

这些是我们最出色的投资之一,而且它们——你在模型里是找不到这些机会的。

Those are among our best investments and they were— you couldn't have found them in a model.

AI不会告诉你去做任何这些事。

AI would not have told you to do any of those things.
M2
M238:05

很多价值投资者在2010年、2011年之后表现不佳,但你们没有。

A lot of value investors have underperformed sort of like post-2010, 2011, but you haven't.

你觉得这是为什么?

Why do you think that is?
M1
M138:12

我们一直很擅长不断提高对企业质量的标准。

We've been very good about continually sort of increasing our standards for business quality.

我们希望拥有世界上最好的企业,这些企业被颠覆的风险很低,而且我觉得我们在这方面相当自律。

We want to own the best businesses in the world that have a very low risk of disruption, and I think we're quite disciplined about that.

另外一点是,我们不只是做多股票的投资者。

And the other thing is that we're not just a long-only equity investor.

我们在少数几次机会主义地赚了很多钱,当时我们对宏观事件的看法与其他人不同。

We have opportunistically made a pile of money in a couple of cases when we've had a view about macro events that's different from others.

当你有了这样的判断,又能找到一种不对称的方式来下注,就能赚很多钱。

And when you have that, and you can find an asymmetric way to make that bet, you can make a lot of money.

所以我们在新冠疫情开始前赚了很多钱,因为可以说我们比全世界提前几周意识到,全球经济活动必然要停摆。

So we made a lot of money kind of going into COVID because we, I would say, were weeks ahead of the world and of a few that there would have to be a global economic shutdown.

我们还赚了很多钱,因为我们判断一定会出现大规模通胀。

And we made a lot of money because we said there has to be massive inflation.

所以我们押注利率会上升。

So we bet that rates would rise.

我们做过的一件事,之前也谈过,就是我们在2015、2016年左右遭受了非常大的损失。那次经历之后,我说,我们必须把我们的投资原则真正刻在石板上,放在我们的办公桌上。

One of the things we did that we've talked about it before, but we had this very large loss circa 2015, 2016 And after that experience, I said, we got to take our investment principles and literally engrave them on a stone tablet and put them on our desk.

这是一个很好的方法。

It's a very good way.

有一个清单实际上是一个不错的方法,可以确保你避免犯错,我们有一个很好的清单。

Having a checklist is actually not a bad way to make sure you avoid mistakes, and we have a good checklist.
M2
M239:18

那个清单上有什么?

What's on that checklist?
M1
M139:19

我们投资的企业性质——简单、可预测、能产生自由现金流的公司,我们寻找的管理团队类型,专注于大盘、流动性好的上市公司,以及避免做空。

The nature of the businesses we're investing in, simple, predictable, free cash flow generative companies, the kinds of management teams that we're looking for, focus on large-cap kind of liquid public companies, an aversion to short selling.

那是一个很好的教训。

That was something, a good lesson.

在非对称方面,我们在寻找一种情况:我们有一个与全世界不同的观点,然后我们可以用一种工具来表达这个观点,收益相对于我们投入的资本来说非常大。

And on the asymmetric side, we're looking for a case where we have a view that's different from the rest of the world, and then we can express that view with an instrument where the payoff is very large relative to the amount of capital that we put to work.

但非常简单——我们在寻找世界上最好的、超持久增长的公司。

But it's a very simple— we're looking for the best super durable growth companies in the world.

我们花很多时间思考护城河。

We spend a lot of time thinking about moats.

显然,我们希望它们由世界上最好的团队管理,或者如果它们不是由世界上最好的团队管理,我们心里有一个人选,如果需要替换团队,我们可以安排人选。

And obviously we want them run by the best teams in the world, or if it's not run by the best team in the world, we want to have someone in mind that we could install if we need to replace the team.
M2
M240:07

你为什么停止做空?

Why did you stop short selling?
M1
M140:09

我其实从来都不喜欢做空,因为那是反向的非对称性,对吧?

I never actually liked short selling because it's asymmetry in reverse, right?

你可能损失无限多,而你能赚到的是有限的。

You can lose an infinite amount and the amount you can make is finite.

但我当时——我们在金融危机前做空了债券保险公司,那是非常——是MBIA那次吗?

But I was— we shorted the bond insurers going into the financial crisis, and that was a very— That was the MBIA one?

是的。

Yeah.

但我们赚的大部分钱,是通过信用违约互换赚的,而不是通过做空股票。

But most of the money we made, we made on the credit default swaps as opposed to shorting stock.

然后我们什么也没做。

And then we did nothing.

然后有人向我推销一个欺诈性的金字塔骗局。

And then someone pitched me on a fraudulent pyramid scheme.

然后我们做了功课,说,这是一个欺诈性的金字塔骗局。

And then we did the work and said, it's a fraudulent pyramid scheme.

我们说,做空一个欺诈性的金字塔骗局,然后向FTC提交详细分析,我们怎么会亏钱呢?

And we said, how can we lose money shorting a fraudulent pyramid scheme and then delivering to the FTC a detailed analysis?

他们肯定要调查,而受到伤害的人是社会上最弱势的群体。

They'll have to investigate and the people being harmed are the most disadvantaged people in society.

所以我们认为这是一个绝佳的布局。

So we thought it was an amazing setup.

我们喜欢做顺风的投资。

And we like to make investments where the wind is at our back.

我们说,看,风在我们背后。

And we said, look, the wind's at our back.

我们在帮助一群被利用的弱势群体。

We're helping a group of disadvantaged people who are being taken advantage of.

这是一家邪恶的公司。

It's an evil company.

这一定会成功。

This has to work.

我们低估了市场动态的风险,比如卡尔·伊坎出现,买入股票,投入资金与我们作对。

And we underestimated the risk of market dynamics, i.e., Carl Icahn showing up, buying the stock, putting capital to work against us.

这提醒了我们,这确实是一个非常阴暗的行业。

And it just reminded us that it's a really shady business.
M2
M241:16

你做空的那家公司,那个金字塔骗局,我们就不提名字了,但那给你带来了巨大的攻击。

The company that you were shorting, the pyramid scheme, we won't mention the name, but that generated these huge attacks against you.

当时有网站针对你。

There were websites against you.

有个很著名的CNBC节目片段,我觉得就是那件事的结果。

There was a famous CNBC segment that I think came as a result of that.

当你愿意发表那样一个相反的观点时,你个人要付出什么代价?

What about the personal cost to you when you're willing to put out a contrary opinion like that?
M1
M141:35

嗯,做公司的投资者要容易得多。

Well, it's much easier to be an investor in companies.

你会交到多得多的朋友。

You make a lot more friends.

你买一只股票,其他人跟着你一起买,股价上涨,所有人都赚钱。

You buy a stock, other people pile in with you, it goes up, everyone wins.

你做空一只股票,而那次我们是空头头寸里的绝大多数,所以其他所有人基本上都站在另一边。

You short a stock, and in that case, we were the vast majority of the short interest, so everyone else was sort of on the other side.

然后还有一家公司,我们对它构成了生存威胁。

Then you had a company that we were an existential threat to.

他们愿意动用一切手段——他们长期以来受到批评者、媒体和其他人的攻击,所以他们建立了很多基础设施来反击批评者。

They were willing to use whatever— they had been attacked over time by critics, by media, by others, and they built up a lot of infrastructure to go after the critics.

所以他们算是做好了充分准备来对付我们。

So they were kind of well prepared to kind of go after us.

然后这就变成了一种对冲基金的交易,意思是“咱们去逼空Bill”。

And then it became a bit of a hedge fund trade where let's go squeeze Bill.

这就是不幸之处,在某种意义上,业内的人会觉得,好吧,这些家伙做得过火了,我们可以把他们挤出去。

That was kind of the unfortunate part of it where in some sense the industry is like, okay, these guys are in over their skis, we can squeeze them out.

那可不是什么好玩的部分。

And that was not the fun part.
M2
M242:24

从公众生活的角度来看,我觉得你相对低调了很多,比起你以前的样子。

You were relatively quiet, I would say, from a public life point of view compared to what you were before.

而在过去几年里,你发声多了很多。

And now in the last few years, you've been a lot more vocal.

为什么是现在?

Why now?
M1
M142:33

嗯,我一直都有点那种言论自由的倾向。

Well, I've always been kind of a free speech kind of thing.

可以翻翻我高中毕业年鉴。

Go back to my high school yearbook.

我被列为“最健谈”,年鉴上给我的评语是“闭口不惹祸”。

I was listed as most verbose and my yearbook epithet was a closed mouth gathers no foot.

所以我那时候就以表达观点而出名。

So I was sort of known for being expressive about my point of view.

我生命中一个重要的驱动力是,我一直想能够说出我相信的东西。

One of my important drivers in life was I always wanted to be able to say what I believed.

随着我在推特上的粉丝数增长,它在一定程度上给了我更多影响力。

As my follower count grew on Twitter, it gave me on the margin more influence.

而当我关心各种议题时,我想帮助推动某种叙事。

And as I cared about various issues, I wanted to help advance a narrative.

这就是为什么我更加公开地表达。

And that's why I've been more public about it.

而且我得到了回报,因为它确实有效,从一些小事开始。

And I've been rewarded by it working, beginning with smaller things.

你实际上可以通过一条推文影响政府、影响历史进程,这挺酷的。

And you can actually influence the administration, the course of history with a tweet, which is pretty cool.

如果没人愿意说皇帝没穿衣服,或者更甚,很多恶事就会发生。

A lot of evil can go by if no one's willing to say the emperor is not wearing clothes or more.
M2
M243:24

在我们继续之前,我想稍微回头再说一下AI这件事。

I want to come back just one second to the AI thing before we move on from it.

你个人是怎么使用它的?

How are you using that personally?
M1
M143:29

我最近用得比以前多很多。

I'm using it a lot more recently.

我女儿经历了一次严重的健康问题,AI在筛查和帮你为孩子做医疗决策方面简直太厉害了。

My daughter's had a major health incident and AI is amazing at vetting, helping you make medical decisions for a child.

这是一个无比强大的工具,我觉得每个医生其实都应该用Claude医生,或者随便你喜欢的网站、喜欢的AI,来复核一下自己的工作。

It's an incredibly powerful tool, and I think every doctor should actually be checking their work with Dr. Claude or pick your favorite website, favorite AI.
M2
M243:54

你觉得像Brookfield这样的公司会不会变得更值钱?就是说在一个AI主导的世界里,那种有形的、几乎算是基础设施的东西是不是会变得更有价值?

Do you think companies like Brookfield get more valuable where it's like a tangible almost infrastructure becomes more valuable in a world of AI?

还有另一个布局,我很想听听你的看法,就是Thrive开始买这些体育球队了。

And there's another bet, and I'd love to hear your reaction to this, which is Thrive is starting to buy these sports teams.

他们的前提是我们有一个杠铃式的组合,对吧?

Under the assumption that we have this barbell, right?

一只手是AI,而另一只手,这些有形的体验会变得越来越有意义,人们大概也愿意为这些体验花更多的钱。

We have AI in one hand, and on the other hand, these tangible experiences are going to become more and more meaningful to people, and presumably they'll pay more for those experiences.
M1
M144:22

所以说到Brookfield,我觉得这是一家管理得极其出色的、非常了不起的公司。

So on Brookfield, I think it's an incredibly well-run, amazing company.

他们非常擅长基础设施,也非常擅长融资。

They're very good at infrastructure, and they're very good at financing.

他们非常擅长建设。

They're very good at building things.

想想数据中心,想想电力。

So think data centers, think power.

市场对算力的需求实际上是无限的,而他们的位置非常好。

There's effectively infinite demand for compute and they're very well positioned.

所以我觉得Brookfield绝对是AI时代的赢家。

So I think Brookfield is an AI winner for sure.

他们会提供大量的骨干电力以及其他基础设施。

They'll provide a lot of the backbone power and otherwise.

我是Josh Kushner的超级粉丝。

I'm a big Josh Kushner fan.

我不知道最近那笔棒球队的投资有多少跟Thrive有关,有多少是他个人的。

I don't know how much of the recent baseball investment is Thrive-related or personal.

我确实不太清楚,但我真的觉得现在很多人坐在家里感到孤独,可你去看一场大型体育赛事,比如在尼克斯队比赛现场的那种感觉——也许比赛结束时一半观众都挺失落的,但比赛进行中的时候,那是一种非常人性化的、让人狂喜的体验。

It's not quite clear to me, but I do think that there's a lot of people sitting home being lonely, but you go to a big sporting event, the feeling that you have at a Knicks game, maybe at the end of the game, half the crowd is unhappy, but while it's underway, it's sort of a very human elation-type experience.

不过我不确定棒球队是不是——它们的估值方式跟我评估大多数资产的方式不太一样。

Now, I don't know that baseball teams are— they're not valued in a way that I think about valuing most assets.

我觉得它们的估值更像艺术品,而不是一家金融企业。

I think they're valued more like an artwork than a financial enterprise.

据我所知,绝大多数体育球队,就算能赚钱,也赚不了多少。

The vast majority of sports teams, as far as I know, if they make money, it's not a lot.

而且老板们也不是指望这些球队能产生巨额现金流。

And it's not like the owner is expecting them to generate massive cash flow.

他们现在接受较低的回报,是因为相信未来它能带来多得多的现金流。

They're taking a small return today on the basis that it's going to generate a lot more cash flow in the future.

我觉得绝大多数球队老板都愿意把规则允许花的每一分钱都花在扩张球队上。

I would think the vast majority of sports owners are prepared to spend every dollar that they're allowed to in expanding their franchise.
M2
M245:55

你会买一支球队吗?

Are you going to buy a sports team?
M4
M445:57

不会。

No.
M2
M245:58

你从偶尔高调的维权投资者,变成了试图在幕后推动变革的人。

You went from being an occasionally loud activist to trying to enact change behind the scenes.

为什么会有这个转变?这样是不是更有效?

Why the change, and is it more effective this way?
M1
M146:08

因为我们现在能在幕后推动变革了,而我们刚开始的时候做不到,对吧?

It's because we were able to effectuate change behind the scenes, and we weren't when we started, right?

我们刚进入这行的时候,既没有信誉也没有名声。

When we went into the business, we didn't have credibility or reputation.

我们还没进过董事会。

We hadn't been in the boardroom.

我当时比现在年轻20多岁,在那个世界里,你的财务资源有限,声誉资源也有限,你只能买下公司5%的股份,然后必须靠观点的力量去赢得大型机构的支持。

I was 20, you know, 20-plus years younger, and, uh, in that world where you have limited financial resources, you have limited reputational resources, you can buy 5% of a company and you have to win on the power of the idea to get the big institutions to support you.

你可能最终还得走到proxy contest那一步,等等。

You might have to end up in a proxy contest, et cetera.

20年过去了,我和团队其他成员一样,已经在好几个董事会里待过了。

20 years later, I've been on multiple boards as have other members of the team.

我们有成功的投资记录,就是长期投资一家公司。

We have a track record of successful investing in a company, being a long-term investor.

早先他们会说,哦,你只是个短期投资者。

In the early days, they would say, oh, you're just a short-term investor.

不过随着时间推移,我们证明了我们的利益实际上和公司长期持有者的利益是一致的。

Well, over time we've been able to prove that actually our interests are aligned with the interests of the long-term holders of the business.

所以现在当我们买入一家公司的股份时,真的会收到CEO的来信。

And so today when we buy a stake in the company, we literally get letters from the CEO.

最近我们做了几笔新投资,其中有几笔我们收到了非常好的——五六笔里有三笔吧,CEO给我们写信说,非常感谢你们投资我们公司。

Recently we made a number of new investments and in a couple of the cases we actually got very nice— 3 of the 5 or 6 cases we got letters from the CEO saying, thank you so much for investing in our company.

我读了你们第二季度的信。

I read your second quarter letter.

你们思考业务的方式和我们一样。

You think about the business in the way we do.

告诉我们什么时候可以来见你们。

Let us know when we can come see you.

如果我们对他们有什么想法,我相信他们会非常愿意接受。

And if we have any ideas for them, I'm sure they'll be very receptive to taking them.

在那种情况下,我们就不必当activist了。

In that world, we don't have to be an activist.
M2
M247:25

你觉得如果你要当activist,是不是应该先持有一段时间的股票?

Do you think if you're going to go activist, you should have to hold your shares for a certain period of time?
M1
M147:30

我不认为法律上应该强制要求,但我觉得是的。

I don't think you should be legally required, but I think yes.

我觉得activism——更直接回答你的问题——那种只着眼于推动股价短期上涨、却给公司带来长期伤害的做法,显然没有意义。

I think activism, more direct answer to question, that is focused on causing the stock price to go up in the short term but causing the company long-term harm obviously makes no sense.

大幅削减开支,也就是减少投资,这样我们就能报出一个利润更高的季度。

Cut your expenses dramatically, i.e., underinvest so that we can report a more profitable quarter.

这不会带来好结果,要么就是给公司加杠杆,把资本返还给股东。

That's not going to lead to a good outcome, or lever up the company and return the capital to shareholders.

最极端的形式是greenmail,这基本已经被禁止了,但你可以把某些activism看作是一种几乎等同于greenmail的形式。

The most extreme version was greenmail, which has largely been outlawed, but you can view certain kinds of activism as a form of almost greenmail.

就是让短期持有者受益,代价是那些被套牢的股东,而董事会的职责就是把这种事情拦下来。

Let's benefit the short-term holders at the expense of people who are stuck owning the stock, and the board's job is to kind of shut that stuff down.

而且我认为现在的股东,Vanguard、BlackRock,那些index fund的持有者,他们不是——他们是永远的持有者。

And I think shareholders today, the Vanguard, BlackRock, the index fund owners are not going to be— they're forever owners.

他们不会支持那种会带来长期负面后果的短期举措。

They're not going to support some kind of short-term initiative that will cause long-term negative consequences.
M2
M248:26

你刚才提到了index funds。

You talked about index funds there for a second.

你对那些靠工资生活、想要投资的普通人有什么建议?

What advice do you have for the ordinary person who's making a paycheck and wants to invest?
M1
M148:34

所以如果你想成为一名投资者,你必须投入真正的时间。

So if you want to be an investor, it's something you got to allocate real time to.

这是你必须去研究和学习的事情。

It's something you have to study and learn.

你必须对公司做足功课。

You've got to do your homework on companies.

所以那是一个决定。

So that's a decision.

如果你只是想涉足股票市场,我确实认为index funds是一个很好的方法,而且长期来看它们跑赢了大多数主动型投资者。

If you just want to have exposure to the stock market, I do think index funds are a very good approach and they've beaten most active investors over long periods of time.
M2
M248:50

你会怎么做?

How would you do that?

你会按月做dollar-cost averaging吗?

Would you do dollar-cost averaging on a monthly basis?

你会不会觉得,现在价格高了,所以就再等等?

Would you be like, oh, it's high now, so I'll hold off?

你怎么看这件事?

How do you think about it?
M1
M148:58

我觉得关键有两点,第一是趁早开始。

I think the key is to one, start young.

所以越早开始存钱,用这些钱做长期投资,对你的退休生活就越好。

So the sooner you can start putting aside money that you can invest for the long term, the better for your retirement.

这就是复利的力量。

The power of compounding.

我不会因为觉得市场贵了,就坐在那儿一直拿着现金。

I wouldn't sit around holding cash because you think the market's expensive.
M2
M249:11

你刚才提到了股票期权。

You mentioned stock options earlier.

我想回到这个话题。

I want to come back to that.

从一个成熟公司的角度来看,你怎么看待股票期权?比如说像 Meta 或者微软这样的公司,他们其实完全可以付现金,但他们却用期权。

How do you think about stock options from a mature company perspective where it's like, let's say Meta or Microsoft or an example like that where they could pay cash easily too, but they use options?
M1
M149:26

他们用限制性股票作为一种形式。

Where they use restricted stock as some form.

我的意思是,某种形式的限制性股票或期权的好处在于归属期。

I mean, the benefit of some form of restricted stock or options is the vesting.

它能让你留住人才,这种作用是每年直接付现金做不到的。

It gives you some ability to retain talent in a way that just paying someone cash every year doesn't.

所以我觉得这仍然是一个非常有用的工具。

So I think it's still a very useful tool.

它显然也能让利益更加一致。

It also obviously creates more alignment.

大家会真正关心股价,我觉得这对员工来说是一种很重要的纪律性。

People actually care about the share price, which I think is an important discipline for employees.

至于 Pershing Square 这家管理公司——就是那个买一送一的礼物——我们不打算发行任何有意义的期权或限制性股票。

Now, Pershing Square, the management company, which was the gift we gave with purchase, we don't intend to issue any meaningful amount of options or restricted stock.

我们的员工本来就已经持有——我们把股权非常广泛地分配给了整个公司。

We have an employee base that already owns— we spread equity very widely throughout the firm.

所以大约80%的股票是由团队持有的。

So 80% of the stock or so is held by the team.

所以很幸运,我们很长时间内都不需要发行股权或期权。

So we're in the fortunate position of not having to issue equity or options for a very long time.

但也许20年后,新一代员工在公司里没有任何股权。

But maybe 20 years from now we have a new generation that doesn't have any equity in the company.

我们可能会选择——它可以是一个有用的工具。

We may choose— it can be a useful tool.
M2
M250:20

我很高兴市场给了我这个机会,在它发行的时候买了一些。

I was very happy the market gave me an opportunity to purchase some of that when it came out.

它跌到了大概23美元左右。

It went down to like $23 or something.
M1
M150:25

是啊,我也买了一些。

Yeah, I bought some too.
M2
M250:26

我想稍微聊聊 Netflix。

I want to talk about Netflix for a second.

你买了这只股票,大概一个月后卖了,现在又重新买回来了。

You bought this, you sold it like a month later, and then now you've rebought it.

这个决定是怎么做出的?

What went into that decision?

你当时错了,现在又对了。

You were wrong, now you're right.

你是怎么改变想法的?

How did you change your mind?
M1
M150:39

Netflix 可以说是我们研究库里的公司之一,我们长期对它做了大量研究。

Netflix is one of the companies, if you will, in the library that we had done a lot of work on over time.

创造这个机会的原因,至少我们第一次这么想的时候,是因为他们没有达到订户增长的预期。

What created the opportunity, at least the first time as we thought about it, was they had missed subscriber growth guidance.

股价被砸得很惨。

Stock got crushed.

我们认为Netflix是一家很棒的公司,处于非常主导的地位。

We think Netflix is an amazing business with a very dominant position.

然后我们买了公司相当大的一笔股份。

And we bought a meaningful stake in the company.

然后我们和管理层见了面,把我们详细的资料演示给他们看了。

We then met with management and we shared our detailed deck with them.

他们完全同意我们对这家公司的判断。

They completely agreed with our thesis on the company.

所以我们觉得自己和管理层特别一致。

So we felt we were kind of super aligned with management.

我们谈到比如为什么Netflix不——我们就说,你们为什么不做广告模式,低成本的广告模式?

We talked about things like why Netflix isn't— we said, why don't you have an advertising model, lower-cost advertising model?

他们说,我们永远不会这么做。

They said, we're never going to do it.

大概三四个星期之后,他们发布了财报,如果你回去听那次财报电话会议,管理层看起来像是被震懵了。

About 3 or 4 weeks later, they announced earnings and if you go back and review the earnings call, management seemed shell-shocked.

他们又没达到订户数字。

They missed the subscriber numbers again.

他们对此似乎非常惊讶。

They seemed very surprised by this.

他们说,我们得做出调整。

They talked about, we're going to have to adapt.

我们得推出广告模式,这距离他们说永远不会做这件事,实际上才过了三周。

We're going to have to launch an advertising model, literally 3 weeks before they said they would never do it.

我的体会是,你投资了一家公司,然后你得到的新信息和原来的判断不一致,你要么就得大幅加仓,因为股票变便宜了,而且你认为新信息并不重要,要么你就得退出,因为原有的逻辑已经被打破了。

And my takeaway was you make an investment in a company and then you learn new information that's inconsistent with the original thesis, you either have to buy a lot more because the stock's gotten cheap and you believe that the new information is not material, or you have to exit because the thesis is broken.

于是我们决定退出,可以说,就是基于这个逻辑被打破了。

And we made the decision to exit on the thesis, if you will, being broken.

后来我们在写给投资者的信里说,你看,我们卖出的原因就是这个。

Now, the letter we wrote to our investors, we said, look, we're selling for this reason.

我们认为管理层有能力解决这个问题,但Pershing Square投资的是世界上确定性最高的公司。

We think management is going to be able to work through this problem, but Pershing Square invests in the highest certainty companies in the world.

我们认为这里的结果分布已经大大扩大了。

We think the dispersion of outcomes here has widened dramatically.

他们可能做对了,甚至大获成功,但更大的可能是他们做不对。

They may get it right and maybe a home run, but there's a much greater probability that they don't get it right.

他们对广告模式一无所知,也不知道那会不会成功。

They don't know anything about advertising models and whether that's going to be successful or not.

所以在结果分布很广的情况下,我们有更好的地方来配置资本。

So with the wide dispersion of outcomes, we have a better place to deploy the capital.

我们把钱拿过来,买了Google,也就是Alphabet。

We took the money, we bought Google, Alphabet.

因为再说一次,对我们来说,我们不需要用亏损的同样方式把它赚回来。

Because again, for us, we don't need to make it back the same way we lost the money.

我们总可以把亏损用来抵扣税款,这对我们有些价值,然后把钱重新配置到确定性更高的地方。

We can always take a tax loss, which has some value to us, and redeploy it in something else, which is higher certainty.

再说,看看Pershing Square的投资组合,我们持有的都是世界上确定性最高、最可预测的公司。

And again, if you look at the Pershing Square portfolio, we own the highest certainty predictable companies in the world.

这个投资失去了它的确定性因素,至少在我们看来是这样。

This lost its certainty element, at least in our mind.

那后来发生了什么呢?

Now, what's happened since?

他们执行得非常好。

They executed extremely well.

他们建立了一个非常成功的广告模式。

They built a very successful advertising model.

他们变成了一个更具主导地位的公司。

They became an even more dominant company.

他们的业务产生了更多的现金流。

They became a much more cash flow generative business.

然后在流媒体大战中,他们赢了。

And the streaming wars, they won.

迪士尼、派拉蒙这些公司,基本上都被挤到一边去了。

The Disneys of the world, the Paramounts of the world have kind of been pushed aside.

对 Netflix,你大概是先关灯,然后才关掉 Netflix。他们处于极其有利的创新位置。

Netflix, you probably turn off the lights practically before you turn off your Netflix, and they're incredibly well positioned to innovate.

任何创作者要想卖内容或者制作内容,都会去找他们。

They're the place you go if you're any creative person to sell your content or to produce your content.

但因为他们的执行力确实很强,股价又回到了很高的估值倍数,就没意思了。

But the stock, because they executed really well, went back to a very high multiple and not interesting.

然后最近呢,股价又腰斩了一次。

And then relatively recently, the stock got cut in half again.

所以现在我们拥有了我们认为确定性强的那门生意。他们在一个说得过去的价格上证明了自己。

So now we had the high certainty business we thought we owned. They proved themselves at a price that made sense.

我们又买回来了。

We bought it back.
M2
M253:46

你参与的、我觉得大家最不了解的业务,就是 Howard Hughes。

The business that you're involved with that I think people know the least about is Howard Hughes.

你是怎么参与进去的?为什么你这么兴奋?

How did you get involved in that and why are you so excited by it?
M1
M153:56

当然。

Sure.

Howard Hughes 是我们在另一次投资中为了让它成功而创建的一个实体。

So Howard Hughes was an entity we created to make another investment successful.

我们投资了一家叫 General Growth 的公司。

So we invested in a company called General Growth.

我们在金融危机期间买入了这只股票。

We bought the stock during the financial crisis.

股价当时跌了 99.5%。

Stock was down 99.5%.

我们买了公司 25% 的股份。

We bought 25% of the company.

而且是在它申请 Chapter 11 破产保护的前几个月买的。

And we did so a few months before it filed for Chapter 11.

实际上,当时是我们推动董事会申请 Chapter 11 破产保护的。

And it was actually, we were pushing the board to file for Chapter 11.

他们本来想避免。

They were trying to avoid it.

这件事其实是不可避免的。

It was a case where it was inevitable.

但我们的看法是,我们可以做一次重组,让股东们保留他们在公司的投资,可能有一些稀释。

But our view is we could run a restructuring where the shareholders could keep their investment in the company, maybe with some dilution.

然后呢——我就加入了公司董事会。

And that's— I joined the board of the company.

我们领导了那次重组。

We led that restructuring.

General Growth 和它的直接竞争对手 Simon Property Group 相比,复杂性在于——Simon 今天仍然非常成功——General Growth 除了拥有 Class A 购物中心,还拥有大量土地,并且在从 Rouse 收购来的业务上做了很多开发。

What created complexity in General Growth versus its direct competitor, which was a company called Simon Property Group, which is still quite successful today, was they had, in addition to Class A shopping malls, they owned a lot of land and they did a lot of development in a business that they acquired from Rouse.

他们拥有这些所谓的 MPC,也就是小型城市,而市场非常讨厌那个业务。

They owned these so-called MPCs or small cities, and the market hated that business.

所以我们就说,你看,我们把那些业务、那些土地投资、那些 MPC,以及任何不像 Class A 购物中心的东西,都从公司里拿出来,让 General Growth 看起来跟 Simon 一模一样。

So we said, look, let's make General Growth look exactly like Simon by taking all of those businesses, all these kind of land plays, these MPCs out of the company and anything else that didn't look like a Class A mall.

我们把所有非核心资产都塞进了 Howard Hughes,理由是——顺便说一句,这是我第一次见到这种情况——通常当你从一家公司分拆出另一家公司时,母公司的股价会下跌,跌幅等于你分拆出去的那个东西的价值,因为那有点像派发股息。

We took all the non-core stuff and stuck it in Howard Hughes on the theory that— and by the way, it's the first time that I've ever seen— normally when you spin off a company from another company, the spinning company stock price drops by the value of the thing you spin off because it's kind of like a dividend.

但这次,我们分拆出了 Howard Hughes,结果 General Growth 的股价反而上涨了。

In this case, we spun off Howard Hughes and General Growth stock went up.

这件事带来的阴影——所以大卫·西蒙把它叫做ShitCo。

The overhang from this— so David Simon called it ShitCo.

他当时在提出一个有竞争力的竞标。

He was putting in a competitive bid.

我们的方案,是跟Brookfield合作做了一笔交易,创建了这个实体。

Our structure, which was a deal we did with Brookfield, was to create this entity.

我们叫它Howard Hughes。

We called it Howard Hughes.

他取笑它,叫它shitco,但它确实有点像shitco,因为它就是把所有那些——

He was making fun of it by calling it shitco, but it was really sort of shitco because it was just everything that—.
M2
M255:40

可以说是没人想要的资产。

The assets nobody wanted, so to speak.
M1
M155:42

然后我们聘请了一支我认为非常优秀的企业家团队,Howard Hughes的David Weinreb,来逐步消化这些资产,直到过去五六年,投资组合变得非常集中,就只做MPC。

And then we hired, I thought, quite a very good entrepreneurial team, David Weinreb at Howard Hughes, to kind of work through these assets over time until the portfolio was quite focused in the last 5 or 6 years to just MPCs.

我们说,看吧,市场终于会明白为什么这是一门非常好的生意。

We said, look, the market's finally going to understand why this is a really good business.
M2
M255:58

MPC就是那种总体规划的社区,对吧?

And MPCs are master-planned communities?
M1
M156:00

它们现在算是小城市了。

They're small cities at this point.

我们在休斯敦拥有The Woodlands,那是一个小城市,大约15万人,有高层办公楼、购物中心、学校和教堂。

So we own The Woodlands in Houston, which is a small city, 150,000 people, something like this, with high-rise office towers and shopping centers and schools and churches.

我把这门生意描述得有点像游戏SimCity,我们就像这些社区的良性所有者。

I describe the business a bit like SimCity the game, where we act as kind of the benign owner of these communities.

我们得到的好处就是,我们拥有所有的商业用地和所有的住宅用地。

And what's in it for us is we own all of the commercial land and all the residential land.

我们把住宅用地卖给住宅建筑商。

We sell the residential land to home builders.

商业用地我们不卖。

We don't sell the commercial land.

我们用商业用地去建社区需要的任何东西。

We use it to build whatever the community needs.

如果你以非常长远的、几十年的眼光来看,这门生意会随着时间产生巨额的现金。

And if you take a very long, multi-decade view, this is a business that over time generates a huge amount of cash.

我们有一系列这样的小城市。

And we have a series of these small cities.

但在华尔街14年都不想碰这门生意之后,我们说,看,是时候把Howard Hughes改造成别的什么东西了。

But after 14 years of Wall Street wanting nothing to do with the business, we said, look, it's time for us to kind of transform Howard Hughes into something else.

华尔街不喜欢Howard Hughes核心业务的原因是,土地和开发这类业务长期业绩记录不好。

And the reason why Wall Street doesn't like the core Howard Hughes business is land and development sort of have a bad long-term track record.

虽然我们的土地跟一般的土地非常不同,它真的是——想象一下你拥有纽约市,你拥有所有空置的商业用地和所有空置的住宅用地,而且你拥有它们超过100年。

And while our land is very different from just any land, it's literally— imagine you owned New York City and you owned all the vacant commercial land and all the vacant residential land, and you owned it over a 100-year period of time.

你绝对可以——你简直能赚几万亿美元。

You could make an absolute— you literally make trillions of dollars.

这才是真正的机会。

That's really the opportunity.

而且实际上我们拥有的土地都在人们正在搬去的地方,德州、拉斯维加斯、夏威夷。

And actually the land that we own is in places where people are moving to, Texas, Las Vegas, Hawaii.

但作为上市股票,它的交易价格相比资产价值总是有大幅折价。

But still as a public stock, it's always traded at a big discount to the value of its assets.

所以随着时间推移,我们买入了公司相当大的股份。

So over time we've bought a significant stake in the company.

我们现在拥有公司47%的股份,而且我们正在把它打造成我们所说的现代版的Berkshire Hathaway。

We now own 47% of the company and we're transforming into what we call a modern-day Berkshire Hathaway.

巴菲特做了什么?

What did Buffett do?

他从一个垂死的纺织业务起家。

He started with a dying textile operation.

随着时间推移,他把纺织业务清算了。

Over time, he liquidated the textile operation.

他不断地把资本再投资到保险、银行、一家糖果公司以及其他业务上。

He reinvested the capital in insurance and banking and a candy company and other businesses over time.

最终他建立了一个综合性企业集团,但这是一个在很长时期内以非常高的复合增长率积累资本的企业集团。

And he built a conglomerate ultimately, but a conglomerate that compounded its capital at a very high rate over a long period of time.

而且它做到这一点,几乎没有发行股票。

And it did so without issuing— issuing very little stock.

所以自从我们投资这家公司、我成为执行主席、Ryan 成为他们的首席投资官以来,我们做的是收购了一家名为 Vantage Holdings 的保险公司,一家财产和意外险的专业保险公司和再保险公司。

So what we've done since we've made our investment in the company, since I became executive chair, since Ryan became their CIO, is we acquired an insurance company called Vantage Holdings, a P&C specialty insurer and reinsurer.

最近,我们招募了,我相信,保险行业最优秀的管理团队,我们要把这家小保险公司逐步打造成大型保险公司,由这个非常有才华的团队来承保我们承担的风险。

Most recently, we recruited, I believe, the best management team in the insurance industry, and we're going to build this little insurer into a big insurer over time with that very talented team underwriting the risks that we take on.

然后由 Pershing Square 来管理资产。

And then Pershing Square is managing the assets.

巴菲特所做的独特之处在于他经营保险业务,但实际上刚开始他做得并不太好。

What Buffett did that was unique is he ran an insurance operation, and actually in the beginning, he didn't do a very good job with that.

他花了很多时间学习如何经营保险业务。

It took him time to learn how to run an insurance operation.

但他管理资产的方式不仅仅是持有固定收益证券组合,那是保险公司典型的做法。他基本上把所有承保产生的浮存金投入到短期国债中,这样就有充足的资本来支付理赔。

But he managed the assets not in just a portfolio of fixed income securities, which is the typical approach for an insurer, but he took basically all of the float generated from writing insurance and he put that money in short-term treasuries so that there was plenty of capital available to pay claims.

然后他把保险公司资产的剩余部分用来购买普通股票。

Then he took the balance of the assets of the insurer and he bought common stocks.

众所周知,巴菲特是一位非常优秀的普通股投资者。

And Buffett was a very good common stock investor, as we know.

因此,随着时间的推移,这家保险公司最终在负债端赚钱,通过承保业务获得利润,收取的保费高于支付的理赔,然后其资产也获得了可观的回报。

And so the insurer ultimately over time made money on the liability side by making a profit writing business, collecting more premiums than it paid in claims, and then it earned an attractive return on its assets.

当你能从资产端获得可观回报,同时负债端基本是负成本,你就可以经营一家年回报率达到20%甚至更高的保险公司。

And when you earn an attractive return on assets and you have basically negative cost liabilities, you can run an insurer that generates a 20% or more annual rate of return.

这就是我们在 Howard Hughes 正在做的事情。

And that's what we're underway to do at Howard Hughes.

然而,没有人注意到,也没有人在意。

Now, no one notices and no one cares.

为什么?

Why?

因为它仍然是一家人们讨厌的房地产公司。

Because it's still a real estate company that people hate.

但 Howard Hughes 核心业务的性质是,随着时间推移,它会自我清算。

But the nature of Howard Hughes's core business is over time it self-liquidates.

所以每年我们都会出售数亿美元的土地。

So each year we sell hundreds of millions of dollars of land.

随着时间推移,我们的土地资产会消失。

Over time, our land assets will go away.

每年我们在夏威夷出售数亿美元的公寓。

Each year we sell hundreds of millions of dollars of condominiums in Hawaii.

我们有40亿美元的公寓已经签约,正在交付过程中。

We've got 4 billion of condominiums under contract in the process of being delivered.

我们从房地产资产中获得接近3亿美元的净营业收入。

We generate something approaching $300 million of net operating income from the real estate assets.

从历史上看,我们把所有产生的现金都再投资到房地产。

So historically, we took all of the cash we generated and reinvested in real estate.

例如,我们在凤凰城购买了另一个 MPC。

We bought another MPC in Phoenix, for example.

我们不再打算那样做。

We're no longer going to do that.

我们将再投资必要的资本,让这些小城市继续成为令人惊叹的居住地。

We're going to reinvest whatever capital is necessary to make these small cities continue to be amazing places to live.

而且它们一直被评为全美最适合居住的地方之一。

And they're always highly ranked as among the best places to live in the country.

但除此之外,我们将产生数十亿美元的资本,最初将部署到保险领域。

But beyond that, we're going to generate billions of capital that we're going to deploy initially in insurance.
M2
M260:19

你说部署,是指进入保险公司的权益部分,这让你能够承保更多保费,但也让你能投资那些权益资产——

And when you mean deploy, that goes into the equity component of sort of the insurance company, which allows you to write more premiums, but allows you to invest sort of the equity—.
M1
M160:28

这些就会变成资本。

That will become capital.

自从我们收购Vantage以来,我们已经追加了3亿美元的额外资本。

We've already put $300 million of additional capital in Vantage since we bought the company.

随着时间的推移,随着我们从房地产业务中产生更多现金,我们正在研究如何加快从房地产公司向保险控股公司的转型。

And over time, as we generate more cash from the real estate operation, we're looking at things we can do to accelerate the transformation from a real estate company to an insurance holding company.

但巴菲特当年所拥有的是,他在公司里持有大量股份。

But what Buffett had was he had a big stake in the business.

他拥有一半。

He owned half.

我们持有47%。

We own 47%.

这让他可以着眼长期。

That allowed him to think long-term.

所以我们也在采取长期策略。

So we're taking the long-term approach.

我们已经组建了一支非常非常有才华的团队。

We've recruited a very, very talented team.

所以我觉得我们的负债端已经准备好了,可以在保险业务上做聪明的操作,而且我们也会把资产管理得很好。

And so I think we have the liability side set up for us to be doing smart things in insurance, and we're going to do a good job managing the assets.
M2
M261:13

关于这个,我有好多问题想问。

I have so many questions about this.

所以“现代版Berkshire Hathaway”这个说法经常被提起。

So modern-day Berkshire Hathaway, that term gets thrown around a lot.

这对你来说意味着什么?

What does that mean to you?
M1
M161:20

这意味着我们的运营方式会跟巴菲特当年非常相似,也就是保险将成为Berkshire Hathaway长期价值的驱动力。

It means we're going to operate much the same way Buffett did in terms of insurance will be the driver of the value of Berkshire Hathaway over time.

核心就是它的保险业务。

It's its insurance operation.

当巴菲特谈到买入Coca-Cola、American Express或其他公司时,那些都是通过保险公司购买的资产。

When Buffett talked about buying Coca-Cola or American Express or other companies, those were assets purchased in the insurance company.

所以我们会以长期视角来管理这项保险业务,而且我们会在不大量发行普通股的情况下推动业务增长。

So we're going to take a long-term view on the way we manage this insurance operation, and we're going to grow the business without issuing a lot of common stock.

所以流通股数量是有限的,而保险的妙处在于,它实际上是一门非常能产生现金的生意。

So there are a finite number of shares outstanding, and the beauty of insurance, it's actually a very cash-generative business.

所以未来几年你会看到的是,这个业务正在转型。

So what you're going to see over the next several years is the business transforming.

目前按资本来算,大概70%是房地产,你知道,可能30%,嗯,是保险。

Today it's probably 70% real estate and, you know, maybe 30%, uh, insurance by, uh, capital.

然后未来,嗯,五年左右,它会慢慢转变成,你知道,可能70%或75%是保险,25%是房地产,除非我们能找到更快实现这个目标的方式。

And then it will migrate, you know, over the next, uh, 5 years to something maybe 70% or 75% insurance, 25% real estate, unless we figure out a way to do that more quickly.
M2
M262:45

那么如果要你列举Berkshire成功的关键,回头来看,就是因为他有控制权,所以他才能做出——

So if you were to list the keys to Berkshire's success, sort of like looking back, it's that he had control so he could make—.
M1
M162:52

他可以着眼长期。

He could take a long-term view.

他不必受股东短期情绪波动的影响。

He wasn't exposed to the short-term whims of his shareholders.

他拥有永久的资本。

He had permanent capital.

他不分红。

He didn't pay dividends.

他把业务产生的所有资本都留存了下来。

He retained all the capital the business generated.

他有投资普通股的天赋,而且他还能招募到有才华的人来运营Berkshire Hathaway旗下的各项业务。

He had a talent for investing in common stocks and he was able to recruit talented people to run the various businesses of Berkshire Hathaway.

而且他也没有通过大量发行股票期权,或者在收购中增发股票,来稀释股东的权益。

And he also didn't dilute his shareholders by issuing a lot of stock options or by issuing stock in acquisitions.
M2
M263:18

为什么没有更多人效仿这种做法呢?

Why don't more people copy that?

听起来很简单。

It sounds so simple.
M1
M163:21

在保险公司的投资部门工作,这事儿没什么吸引力。

It's not sexy to be in the investment operation of an insurance company.

我觉得这是人们不这么做的一个很大原因。

I think that's a big part of the reason why people don't do this.

要拿下一家上市公司47%的股份,这很难。

Now, it's difficult to get to a 47% stake of a public company.

通常不会发生。

Usually doesn't happen.

这算是历史造就的产物吧。

This is sort of a creature of history.
M2
M263:36

你觉得伯克希尔的很多成功,是不是归根结底在于——我的意思是,巴菲特本来可以收‘2 and 20’,但他拿了很普通的薪水,然后和股东一起慢慢积累财富?

Do you think a lot of Berkshire's success there boils down to the fact that, I mean, Buffett could have been paid 2 and 20 at some point, but he took this modest salary and sort of grew his wealth alongside the shareholders?

成功会有多大不同?你看,如果他在投资组合上收‘2 and 20’——我不是说你在这么做,但比如在组合上。

How different would the success be? Look, had he taken 2 and 20 on— not that you're doing that, but like on the portfolio.
M1
M163:54

我觉得他实际上愿意免费工作,这对伯克希尔的文化氛围非常有帮助。

I think his willingness to work for free in effect was a very helpful thing to the ethos around Berkshire.

可能也让其他员工的薪酬谈判变容易了。

Probably made negotiations around compensation for other employees easier.

你看,巴菲特以前运营过一个合伙企业,他拿的是超过6%回报之上利润的大约25%,而且成本由合伙企业承担。

Look, Buffett ran a partnership where he got something like 25% of the profits over a 6% return and the costs were covered by the partnership.

等他退出那门生意时,我想他管理着1亿美元,其中2500万是他自己的,7500万来自其他投资者。

And by the time he retired from that business, I think he had $100 million under management of which $25 million was his and $75 million was held by other investors.

但我觉得他发现了,如果我继续以这种合伙形式干下去,第一,我没有永久资本。

But I think he figured out that if I keep running in this partnership format, one, I don't have permanent capital.

他已经厌倦了和那些投资者打交道,他们给他钱、又把钱拿走,还会影响他的业绩。

He was getting tired of dealing with investors who were giving him money, taking money from him, and affecting his results.

他可能算过账,然后说,看看复利的力量吧。

He probably did the math and said, look at the power of compounding.

如果我拥有这个小伯克希尔·哈撒韦一半的股权,而且我在余生里能产生20%的回报,我最后会处于一个非常好的位置,额外的业绩提成对我来说没那么重要。

If I own half of this little Berkshire Hathaway thing and I generate a 20% return for the rest of my life, I'll end up in a very good place and the marginal promote is not that important to me.

顺便说一句,他还能一个人单枪匹马地运营整个投资业务,我觉得这也是他能做到这一点的原因。

And by the way, he was able to run the investment operation as a one-man band, which I think also enabled him to do this.
M2
M264:57

我记得有天晚上和查理·芒格聊天,我问他,伯克希尔·哈撒韦的成功里,最被低估的方面是什么,就是人们最少谈到的那部分。

I remember talking to Charlie Munger one night, and I asked him what the most underrated aspect of Berkshire Hathaway's success has been, the part that people don't talk about the most.

他说,我们几乎从来没有被形势逼着做决定。

And he said, we were almost never forced to make decisions by circumstances.

所以我们总有选择。

So we always had options.

你怎么看这一点?

How do you think about that?

你的反应是什么?

What's your reaction to that?
M1
M165:15

我们就是围绕这一点来设计我们业务的。

We've designed our business around that.

Pershing Square的独特之处在于,如果你看看各个——我们管理着一个叫Pershing Square Holdings的离岸实体。

The unique thing about Pershing Square is if you look at the various— so we manage an offshore entity called Pershing Square Holdings.

员工持有那家公司28%的股份。

Employees own 28% of that company.

我们管理Howard Hughes。

We manage Howard Hughes.

它由员工和Pershing Square基金直接和间接持有,比例大致相同。

It's owned directly and indirectly about the same by employees plus the Pershing Square funds.

然后我们刚刚让一家叫Pershing Square USA的实体上市,员工在那个实体里投了五亿多美元。

And then we just took public an entity called Pershing Square USA, and employees invested $500 and something million in the entity.

所以我们与众不同的地方是,我们管理的每个上市工具里都有某种锚定股份,而且每个工具都是一种永久资本实体,也就是说,如果市场出现恐慌,人们想要流动性,他们可以卖出这些不同公司的股票,但资本会留在工具里,这让我们能在COVID暴跌期间买入股票,也能在金融危机期间买入股票。

So what's unusual about us is we have sort of these anchor stakes in each of the public vehicles we run, and each of them is sort of a permanent capital entity, which means that if there's a panic in the market and people want liquidity, they can sell the stock of each of these various companies, but the capital stays in the vehicle, which enables us to buy stock during the COVID crash or to buy stock during the financial crisis.

我觉得巴菲特做的一件非常聪明的事是,他在某个年龄就决定了自己想过什么样的生活,他不想过那种要不断筹集资金的日子,而这正是做对冲基金生意的人必须做的事。

I think one of the very smart things Buffett did is he decided at a certain age how he wanted to live his life, and he didn't want to live a life dealing with constantly raising money, which is what you have to do if you're in the hedge fund business.

对冲基金这个行业,当你做得特别好的时候,机构投资者反而会把钱拿走,因为你在他们投资组合里占的比例太大了。

The hedge fund business, when you do really well, institutional allocators take money away from you because you become too big a percentage of their portfolio.

当你有一段低迷期的时候,人们也会把钱拿走,因为你正在经历糟糕的时期。

When you have a bad period, people take money away from you because you're having a bad period.

所以你必须得——而且你真的不能关闭基金,因为如果你不开放,别人就不会对你做尽职调查,那么下次你需要筹集资金的时候,人们要花好几个月才能重新了解你的业务。

So you have to be— and you really can't close because what happens if you're not open, people don't do due diligence on you so that the next time you need to raise capital, it's a many-month process for people to learn about your business again.

所以这就是——

So it's a—.
M2
M266:48

然后你所有的时间都花在筹集资金上了。

And you're spending all your time like raising capital.
M1
M166:50

随着你规模越来越大,这会消耗你大量的时间。

As you get bigger and bigger, it consumes a huge amount of your time.

我把我们最大的投资失误归因于自己分心,因为在某种程度上,我不得不四处奔走筹集资金,试图保持资本基础的稳定。

And I attribute our biggest investment mistake to my being distracted by having to be on the road to some extent raising capital to try to keep the capital base stable.

我们做了一个决定,就是彻底退出那种资金可以随时撤出的业务,也就是那种开放式基金。

And we made a decision to just get out of the business of managing money where the money could leave, these sort of open-ended funds.

你看今天的潘兴广场,如果我们能以接近历史水平的速度复利增长,20年后我们将管理一万亿美元的资产。

And if you look at Pershing Square today, if we just compound anything close to historic rates, we'll be managing a trillion dollars in 20 years.

那已经足够了。

And that's plenty.

那是一门好生意。

That's a good business.
M2
M267:20

我们来聊聊Bremont吧。

Let's talk about Bremont.

你是怎么跟这个手表公司扯上关系的?

How did you get involved with the watch company?
M1
M167:23

嗯,Bremont。事情是这样的,我当时在开霍华德·休斯公司的董事会会议,地点在达拉斯。

Yeah, Bremont.

我们当时的办公室在一个综合用途的综合体里,那里有一个购物中心。

The story here is I was at a Howard Hughes board meeting and it was in Dallas.

午餐休息的时候,我下楼去商场,路过一家手表店。

Our office at the time was in a mixed-use complex with a shopping center.

有一个非常不错的年轻销售员,他跟我介绍了一款Bremont手表。

During a lunch break, I went down to the mall and I walked by a watch store.

我以前从没听过这个品牌,最后买了一块表。

There was a very good young salesman and he talked to me about a Bremont watch.

后来不知怎么的,我把它弄丢了。

I'd never heard of the brand before and I ended up buying a watch.

我有一个手表保险箱,它大概就埋在那个保险箱里了。

And I somehow lost it over time.

多年以后,我因为潘兴广场相关的事情要去伦敦。

I have a watch safe and it kind of got buried in the watch safe.

有个朋友刚告诉我,他在伦敦街上戴着一块漂亮的百达翡丽手表,结果被抢了。

And years later, I was heading to London for actually Pershing Square-related reasons.

他跟我说,比尔,你现在不能在伦敦戴好手表了。

And a friend had just told me that he was wearing a nice Patek Philippe watch walking down the street in London and it was stolen.

因为你会被抢,你知道,运气好就是被偷走,运气不好,你知道,你可能会受伤。

And actually, he's like, Bill, you cannot wear a nice watch in London anymore.

所以我当时就说,哦,那我能戴什么表呢,就是那种我不用担心弄丢的,或者不是小偷会盯上的知名品牌。

'Cause you're gonna get, you know, at best they're gonna steal it, at worst, you know, you can get hurt.

所以我翻了翻我的手表抽屉,找到了这块Bremont表,我心里想,哦,这表太酷了。

So I literally said, oh, what watch can I wear that I can, we're a little less concerned about losing it and, or it's not a recognized brand that a thief is gonna go after.

于是我戴上它。我当时住在梅费尔,走在街上,路过Bremont的店,真的就像,我到伦敦的第二天就路过那里。

I'm like looking through my watch drawer and I found this Bremont watch and I'm like, oh, this is a super cool watch.

所以我走了进去,我真的很喜欢那些手表,最后买了8块Bremont表,基本上是当礼物送人的。

So I put it on and I was staying in Mayfair and I was walking down the street and I walked by the Bremont store, like literally like the day, the next day when I got to London.

那天晚上我和潘兴广场控股的董事长共进晚餐,我送了他一块Bremont表。

So I walked in, I really liked the watches, and I ended up buying 8 Bremont watches basically for gifts.

那天晚上我和潘兴广场控股的董事长一起吃饭,我送了他一块Bremont手表。

And that night I had dinner with the chair of Pershing Square Holdings, and I gave him a Bremont watch.

哦对了,我离开那家店的时候留了一张小纸条。

And oh, I wrote a little note when I left the shop.

他们送了我一个免费的Bremont挂钟,我可以挂在墙上。

They gave me a free Bremont clock that I could put on the wall.

我就问,这家公司是谁开的?

And I said, who owns this company?

他们说,哦,是两个英国兄弟,姓English的兄弟。

And they said, oh, 2 British brothers, the English brothers.

于是我就给他们写了张小纸条,说:亲爱的English先生和English先生,如果将来你们有兴趣找个合伙人,我有兴趣成为那个合伙人,也许能帮你们把公司做大。

And so I wrote them a little note and I said, dear Mr. and Mr. English, if at some point you are interested in having a partner, I would be interested in potentially being that partner and perhaps I could help you grow your company.

我父亲从小培养了我对手表的喜爱。

My father taught me to like watches.

这算是父子之间的一点共同爱好吧。

It was a bit of a father-son thing.

他们给我回了邮件。

They emailed me back.

我开了个Zoom会议,他们跟我说,其实有个长期股东想转让股份,最后我就买下了公司一小部分少数股权。

I did a Zoom and they said, actually, we have a longtime holder that's interested in selling their interest, and ended up buying a smaller minority stake in the company.

后来随着时间的推移,当时的想法是我们有很好的增长策略。

And time went on and the thesis at the time was we have this really good growth strategy.

我们要开一大堆精品店。

We're going to open all these boutiques.

我们的精品店是盈利的。

Our boutiques are profitable.

结果呢,计划没走通,他们很快就烧光了资金。

Well, it didn't work out and they burned through the capital pretty quickly.

不过我把这类投资看作有点像兴趣爱好投资。

But I view these investments a bit like hobby investments.

所以不是什么我投入大量资源去做的事情。

So it's not like something I put a lot of resources into doing.

这有点像沃伦·巴菲特式的投资,我没有做尽职调查。

It was a bit of a Warren Buffett-style investment where I didn't do due diligence.

我只是评估了合作对象的品格,然后握了握手。

I just assessed the character of the people I was dealing with, shook hands.

我唯一参与的事是帮忙招募了一位新CEO,叫Davide Cerrato。

The only involvement I had was helping recruit a new CEO, a guy named Davide Cerrato.

总之,Davide和董事会之间不太顺利,董事会对公司方向和他有分歧,我站在Davide这边。

Anyway, things weren't working out between Davide and the board, and the board had a disagreement with him about the direction of the company, and I sided with Davide.

我觉得他做的所有决定都是对的。

I thought he was making all the right decisions.

他大幅提升了手表的品质。

He dramatically improved the quality of the watches.

他是一位非常出色的手表设计师。

He's a phenomenal watch designer.

我很喜欢这个方向,但那些在公司待了20年的老派觉得变化太大了。

I love the direction, but sort of the old guard who had been with the company for 20 years felt it was too much change.

变化来得太快了。

It was coming too quickly.

我们甚至换了新logo。

We even have a new logo.

我们是不是在失去品牌的精髓?

Are we losing the ethos of the brand?

于是董事会内部就有点争执。

And there was a bit of a board fight.

因为我自己也有点激进投资者风格,就多介入了一些,最后又投入了一大笔资金,买下了公司的实际控制权。

And being a bit of an activist, I sort of got a little more involved and ended up putting in a chunk more capital, buying effective control of the company.

我加入了董事会,担任非执行主席。

I joined the board as non-executive chair.

我把我侄子安排进去,算是帮忙整顿局面。

My nephew, I inserted as kind of to help fix things.

他们最近大概一年左右取得了惊人的进展。

And they've made amazing progress in the last, I would say, year or so.

这挺有意思的——我们这个行业里的人会去买体育球队。

And it's been kind of a fun— other people in my industry buy sports teams.

我拥有这家小手表公司,非常酷。

I own this little watch company and it's super cool.

这是一款要上月球的手表。

And this is a watch that's going to go to the moon.

我得弄一块。

I got to get one of those.

是的。

Yeah.

它叫 Supernova。

It's called Supernova.

酷的地方之一是,表盘上有所有这些荧光材料——晚上整个表盘会完全亮起来。

And one of the things that's cool, the face has all of these phosphorescent— the face lights up completely at night.

看起来就像太空中的太阳能电池板。

It looks like these solar arrays in space.

它是陶瓷的,有个陶瓷表圈。

It's a ceramic, you got a ceramic bezel.
M4
M471:54

太棒了。

Amazing.
M1
M171:55

它是瑞士机芯,最高品质的瑞士机芯之一。

It's a Swiss movement, one of the highest quality Swiss movements.

设计也非常出色。

And it's phenomenal design.

我们有很多粉丝。

And we've got a lot of fans out there.

我觉得人们喜欢——我喜欢戴一块别人不知道我花了多少钱买的手表。

And I think people like— I like wearing a watch where the guy doesn't know what I paid for it.

而且因为不太出名,小偷还没为了它们砍你的手腕。

And also because they're less well-known, the thieves don't chop off your wrist for them yet.

我的意思是,也许等到了那一步,对品牌是好事。

I mean, maybe that's when we get to that point, maybe that's good for the brand.
M2
M272:20

跟我说说招聘新CEO的事吧。

Talk to me about recruiting a new CEO.

这是你作为激进投资者做过的事情之一,你在这里似乎又做了一次。

That's one of the things that you've done as an activist, and you sort of did it here again.

你用什么流程来找到世界上最适合这个职位的人?

What is the process that you undertake to find the best person in the world for that position?

你是怎么做到的?

How do you do that?

为什么你这么擅长这件事?

Why are you so good at that?
M1
M172:33

多年来我们用过几种不同的方式。

So we've done it a couple different ways over time.

对于 Pershing,我们通常的做法是,根据我们的经验,找一位之前担任过CEO的人,风险最低,潜在回报最高。

For Pershing, the way we've generally done it is, in our experience, finding someone who's done it before is the lowest risk, highest return potential.

所以 Chipotle 经历了严重的食品安全问题,我们需要一个人选,Brian Niccol 的名字不断被提起。

So Chipotle went through crazy food safety issues and we needed someone, and Brian Niccol's name kept coming up.

然后我们用这类专家网络,去和以前给 Brian 工作过的人或与 Brian 竞争过的人聊。

And then we used these sort of expert networks to talk to people who used to work for Brian or compete against Brian.

通过这种360度的评价你能学到很多,而且他们给出的推荐全都是好评。

And you can learn a lot by the kind of 360 views and just had kind of glowing references.

然后我们见到这个人。

And then we meet the guy.

我得说这是我最好的技能之一,虽然不是完美的,我犯过一些错误,但随着时间的推移,我非常擅长识人。

I would say one of my best skills, though it's not been perfect, I've made a few mistakes, over time I've become a very good judge of people.

你需要什么?

What do you need?

你需要那些对工作充满热情、能力很强、精力充沛的人,还要诚实、有品格等等。

You need people who are super passionate about the job, a lot of capability, a lot of energy, and honesty, character, et cetera.

而且我觉得你可以在一个小时内评估出来。

And you can assess that I think in an hour.
M2
M273:30

我想稍微换个话题,聊聊你这个人。

I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about you as a person.

别人对你最大的误解是什么?

What are other people's biggest misconceptions about you?
M1
M173:37

我这辈子有过这样的经历,人们会说,比尔,根据我在媒体上读到的,和见到你本人相比,我对你的印象完全不同。

I had this experience over the course of my life where people would say, Bill, I had a completely different impression of you based on what I read in the media than when I meet you in person.

比尔,你看起来是个非常好的人。

Bill, you seem like a really nice guy.
M2
M273:47

是啊,你比印象中好多了。

Yeah, you're much nicer.
M1
M173:50

也许我推特上的某些言论让别人觉得我是个爱挑事的人什么的,但我并不是那种有敌意的人。

And perhaps some of my Twitter expressions make people think I'm just a firebrand or whatever, but I'm not a hostile kind of person.

我只是一个试图找出真相的人。

I'm just someone trying to get to the truth.
M2
M274:02

我觉得媒体就是这样给人定位的,对吧?

I think media positions people in this way, right?

某些人,不管出于什么原因,通过你的激进投资行为,你就会被这样定位,然后人们就形成了这些误解。

Certain people for whatever reason through your activism you kind of get positioned in this, and then people form these misconceptions.
M1
M174:14

实际上我觉得康宝莱这件事确实在一段时间后对我的声誉造成了损害,因为他们有点指责我。

I actually think that the Herbalife thing did do some reputational damage over time because they sort of called me out.

作为一个做空者,我想说普通大众就是觉得那是件邪恶的坏事。

Being a short seller, I would say the general populace just thinks that's like an evil bad thing.

所以我认为那件事已经过去很久了,做空康宝莱大概是在2012年底。

And so I think having that be very much in the rearview mirror, the Herbalife short was like the end of 2012.

那是很久以前的事了。

That was a long time ago.

信不信由你,我们已经有一阵子没有做过激进投资了。

Believe it or not, we'd not made an activist investment for more than a while.

最近一次激进投资是在2016年。

The last activist investment was in 2016.
M2
M274:45

你还会再这么做吗?

Would you ever do it again?
M1
M174:47

我觉得我们不需要以任何传统形式做激进投资者。

I don't think we'd have to be an activist in any kind of traditional form.

我们会相当深入地参与我们所投资的公司的事务。

We will get quite involved in the companies we're involved in.

而且我觉得如果我们在一家公司有大量持股,觉得他们做错了事,而且我们认为值得投入精力的话。

And I guess if we had a big stake in a company, we felt they were doing the wrong thing and we thought it was worth the energy.

而且我不知道我们是否还需要再进行一次 proxy contest。

And I don't know that we're ever going to have to run another proxy contest.

我觉得你不会对一个有300万推特粉丝的人发起 proxy contest。

I don't think you run a proxy contest against someone with 3 million Twitter followers.

我觉得这对管理层来说结局会很糟。

I think it ends badly for management.

我认为我们有足够的影响力,可以通过对话得到正确的答案。

I think we have a sufficient amount of influence that we can get to the right answer with dialogue.

这就是我的想法。

That's what I think.

所以我觉得我们不必成为一个激进投资者。

So I don't think we have to be an activist.

激进投资,就是当你身处董事会之外,而且不会被邀请进去的时候。

Activism is when you're outside the boardroom and you're not going to get invited in.

今天,我觉得任何我们持股的公司,如果我们想要董事会席位,他们会给我们,因为我们是主要股东。

Today, I think any company that we're a shareholder in, if we wanted board representation, they would give it to us because we're a major shareholder.

我们有很好的声誉。

We've got a good reputation.

我们是长期投资者。

We're a long-term investor.

我们会为企业做正确的事情。

We're going to do the right thing for the business.
M2
M275:34

我们最后总是以同一个问题结束,那就是,对你来说成功是什么?

We always end with the same question, which is, what is success for you?
M1
M175:38

我对成功的定义,显然对潘兴广场来说,我希望投资者——显然你可以衡量——能通过我们获得非常有吸引力的、改变人生的投资,这样当他们退休时,他们就能做自己想做的事情。

My definition of success for obviously Pershing Square is I want the investors, obviously you can measure it, have a very attractive life-changing— make a life-changing investment with us so that by the time they retire, they can do the things they want to do.

他们能支付孩子的教育费用。

They can pay for education for their kids.

他们能买下退休后想住的房子。

They can buy the house they want to retire in.

对我个人来说,我的定义——60岁对我来说是一个重要的时刻。

For me, my definition of— 60 has been a moment for me.
M2
M276:05

你庆祝了60岁生日。等等,再深入谈谈那个时刻吧。

You celebrated your 60th birthday. Wait, go deeper on that moment for you.

那意味着什么?

What does that mean?
M1
M176:11

我每年都会想,比如我喜欢夏天。

I sort of think about each year, like I love the summer.

那是我一年中最喜欢的时光之一。

It's one of my favorite times of year.

而夏天过得非常快。

And the summer goes by so quickly.

而且,你知道,大多数人,健康的人能活到80多岁。

And, you know, most people live, you know, healthy people live to their 80s.

我60岁了。

I'm 60.

所以那还有20到25年。

So that's 20 to 25 years from now.

我希望AI,而且,做得更好,能让我活到远超那个岁数。

And I'm hoping AI and, you know, doing a better job enables me to live to meaningfully more than that.

我有一位祖母活到了将近106岁,而且她又抽烟又喝酒。

I have a grandmother who lived to almost 106 and she smoked and drank.

我不知道那是否对她的长寿有帮助,但我想要——等我的时间用完的时候,我希望自己度过了一个有意义的人生。

I don't know if that was contributing to her longevity, but I want to— by the time I have no more time, I want to have had a significant life.

而我的定义一直是,我想对最多的人产生最仁慈的影响。

And my definition has always been I want to have the greatest beneficent impact on the largest number of people.

显然,从家人和朋友开始,等等——而且实际上,我觉得这个研究所将是我能产生巨大影响的一种方式。

Obviously, you start with family and friends and so on, but— and actually, I think this institute is going to be a way I'm going to be able to have a huge impact.

而且这是非常需要的。

And something that's really needed.

所以对我来说,成功就是——就是拥有一个有意义的人生。

So success for me is getting— is having a significant life.
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