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2002年股东大会 · 巴菲特如何在90分钟内决定收购一家企业

119 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 10:28
M1
M10:00

我的问题是,关于你刚才说的那种“闻一闻”的判断。

My question is concerning that what you were just describing as smelling.

我的意思是,你以前在股东大会上跟我们说过,如果管理层爱钱,就不要投资。

And I mean, you told us in former shareholder meetings, if management loves money, do not invest.

如果他们热爱自己做的事,最好是那种每天都像跳着踢踏舞去办公室一样兴冲冲的,而且其他条件也都合适,那就投资。

If they love what they do, preferably if they come tap dancing to the office every day, and all other things are right, then invest.

这让我特别有共鸣,也很符合《圣经》里的那个道理:万恶之根不是钱本身,而是对钱的贪爱;也符合那个曾经让 Prussia 成为所有 German 王国里最大的一个的原则,也就是为了把工作本身做好而工作的那种精神。

That resonated to me very good with the biblical truth that not money itself but love for money is the root of all evil, and the principle that once made Prussia the largest of all German kingdoms, namely the ethos of doing a job for its own sake.

当你在今年的报告里告诉我们,你跟企业主谈不超过九十分钟就会买下一家公司时,我就在想,这到底是一种什么样的——是像你刚才描述的那种经验形成的智慧,还是说,在和企业主谈那九十分钟之前,你还会做更多背景调查?

When you tell us in this year's report that you buy a company after talking to the owners for no more than 90 minutes, I'm wondering what kind of— is it the wisdom of experience, just like you described it, or do you do more background work before talking to the owners for 90 minutes?

整个流程大概是什么样的?

What's the process like?

你会做背景调查吗,还是会去跟竞争对手聊?

Do you do background checks, or do you talk to competitors?

还是说总部的其他人会替你做这些工作?

Do the other people in headquarters do that work for you?

整件事到底是怎么运作的?

How does this whole thing work?
M2
M21:14

嗯,这是个非常好的问题,而且,你提到的这些事情,确实都可能是有道理的。

Well, it's a very good question, and, and all of the things you suggest might well make sense.

我是说,去跟竞争对手聊,去跟前员工聊,去跟现任员工聊,去跟客户聊,去跟供应商聊——这些做法,Phil Fisher 在四十多年前的一本书里都讲过。

I mean, talking to competitors, talking to ex-employees, talking to current employees, talking to customers, talking to suppliers— all of those things Phil Fisher laid out in a book over 40 years ago.

这些年来,我们也确实做过相当多这类事情。

And we have done a fair amount of that over the years.

不过,嗯,Charlie 在你提到的那笔——那家公司这件事上,做法会跟我完全一样。

But, uh, Charlie would have behaved exactly the same way I did on the one— on the company you're referring to.

我接到了 Craig Ponzio 的一个电话,然后——

I got a call from Craig Ponzio and—.
M1
M11:43

对。

Yeah.
M2
M21:44

那是在十二月,一个星期一。

December on a Monday.

说的是一家做定制相框的公司。

It was about a company that made custom picture frames.

我之前从来没听说过这家公司。

I'd never heard of the company before.

我之前也从来没听说过 Craig。

I'd never heard of Craig before.

我跟他在电话里也就聊了不到十五分钟。

I didn't talk to him on the phone much more than 15 minutes.

他这个人非常——他本来今天会在这里的,但他太太突然病得很重,或者至少我们希望不是很严重,不过昨晚至少是出了点状况。

He's a very— he'd be here today, but his wife became seriously ill, or at least we hope it's not serious, but at least there was a problem last night.

不过 Craig 大概跟我讲了二十分钟,你是能感觉出来的——我的意思是,这中间的差别真的是天壤之别。

But Craig talked to me for maybe 20 minutes, and you can tell when— I mean, it's just all the difference in the world.

然后他把这个定制相框——也就是这个定制装裱图片的生意是怎么运作的,给我讲清楚了。

And he laid out what the custom frame— how the custom frame picture business works.

这并不复杂。

And it's not complicated.

在那之前,我这辈子连十秒钟都没想过这个行业。

I hadn't thought about it for 10 seconds in my whole life up till then.

你知道,我也让人装裱过一些照片。

You know, I've had some pictures framed.
M3
M32:35

对。

Yeah.
M2
M22:37

而且我也到处走动。

And I get around.

但是,这东西并不难懂。

And, but it's not hard.

我的意思是,你只要花三十秒想一想,这个行业的经济特性就会自己显现出来。

I mean, if you think about it for 30 seconds, the economics of the industry will sort of make themselves manifest to you.

全国大概有一万八千家装裱店。

There are 18,000 or so framers in the country.

这是个小生意。

It's a small business.

所以你面对的是成千上万的人。

So you're dealing with thousands of people.

那你打交道的这成千上万的人,最看重的是什么呢?

Now, what's important to those thousands of people that you're dealing to?

他们一年大概做二十五万美元、三十万美元,或者四十万美元的生意,而且他们会有一些顾客隔一阵子就来一次,比如我可能每三个月或者每六个月来一次,说,来,我想把这个装裱一下。

They're doing $250,000 or $300,000 or $400,000 of business a year, and they have customers who come in periodically, like I might come in once every 3 months or every 6 months and say, here, I'd like it framed.

他们可能会问我想要什么样的边框,也可能我就直接交给他们决定。

And they may ask me about what kind of frame I want, or I may leave it up to them.

这在很大程度上是个服务型业务。

It's a service operation to a very great degree.

Craig 从大概一九八零年开始做,当时销售额是三百万美元。

And Craig built something starting with, in 1980 or so, with $3 million of sales.

他建立起了一个组织,对这大概一万八千家装裱店的需求反应非常快。

He built an organization that became enormously responsive to these 18,000 or so framers.

他们每年会去拜访这些人五到六次。

They call on those people 5 or 6 times a year.

这些人一订货,他们能把百分之八十五的画框在第二天就送到。

They get 85% of the frames to those people the next day.

就是他们下单的时候。

When they order them.

这才是这种生意里真正关键的东西。

That's what counts in that kind of a business.

你知道,这不是——你不是在给 Big 3 供应汽车零部件。

You know, it's not an— you're not supplying the Big 3 with auto parts.

你不是——有各种各样的因素,让它在经济特性上也很不一样。

You're not— there's all kinds of things that give it a distinctive economic character as well.

Craig 跟我讲这些,像我说的,不超过二十分钟。

Craig told me about that, like I say, in not more than 20 minutes.

他告诉了我价格,也告诉了我投入使用的资本,还给了我一些——几个数字。

And he told me the price, and he told me the capital that was employed, and he gave me some— a few figures.

我跟他一聊就知道,他手上这个交易是讲得通的,你知道。

I knew in talking to him that he had a deal that made sense, you know.

我就说,你什么时候能过来?

And I said, when can you come in?

那是周一。

That was on a Monday.

他说,我周三早上到。

He said, I'll be there Wednesday morning.

然后,嗯,他是和 Steve McKenzie 一起来的,他今天也在这儿,我也鼓励你们去认识一下他。

And, and, uh, he came with Steve McKenzie, who is here today and who I encourage you to meet.

我想他们是九点到的,十点半离开的,然后我们就握手成交了。

And I think they got there at 9 and they left at 10:30, and we'd shaken hands.

我本来还希望今天或者明天能见到 Craig,不过,呃,因为这场病,我见不到了。

I was hoping to see Craig today or tomorrow, but, uh, I won't because of this illness.

不过从那之后,我就一直没再见过 Craig,你知道。

But I haven't seen Craig since, you know.

我的意思是,我们把交易做成了——他拿到了他的钱。

I mean, we made the— he got his money.

他知道自己是在达成一笔交易。

He knew he was making a deal.

他之所以想把它卖给某个买家,是因为这个买家一定能完成交易,会是个好的所有者,而且那里的员工也不会因为他要离开而感到担心。

He had a reason why he wanted to sell it to somebody that would be sure to close, that would be a good owner, where the people who worked there wouldn't be worried because he was leaving.

他离开的时候会带走很多钱,所以,你知道,人们——他想确保这一点。

He was leaving with a lot of money, and, you know, people— he wanted to be sure.

很多人带着很多钱走了,把员工丢在后面,根本不在乎之后会发生什么。

A lot of people leave with a lot of money and they leave the employees behind and they don't care what happens.

但这个人是真的在乎这家公司,我看得出来,这对我来说是个很大的加分。

But this guy cared, and I could tell that, and that's a big plus with me.

所以你知道,我到现在还没去过他们的总部。

So, you know, I have not been to their headquarters yet.

我打算去他们总部看看。

I plan to go to their headquarters.

Steve,我道个歉。

Steve, I apologize.
M3
M35:00

没关系。

That's okay.
M2
M25:02

但我明白这门生意是怎么回事。

But I understand what the business is about.

而且你可以——大多数好生意,你花很短几分钟就能明白它到底是干什么的,除非它属于那种你永远也搞不明白的生意。

And you can— most, most good businesses, you can understand what they're about in a very few minutes, unless they're a kind of business that you can never understand what they're about.

我的意思是,还有另外一些生意,就算你花上几年时间去研究,到最后你还是不知道他妈的到底在发生什么。

I mean, there are other businesses, if you spent years on them, you still wouldn't understand what the hell's going on.

我不知道十年之后哪一家 American 汽车公司会做得最好。

I don't know which one of— which American auto company is going to do the best 10 years from now.

就算我花一整年去跟 Ford、Chrysler 和 General Motors 的经销商聊天,去跟供应商聊,去跟开他们车的人聊,我还是不会更清楚五年或十年以后这个行业会是什么样子。

And if I spent all year talking to dealers for Ford and Chrysler and General Motors, and I talked to suppliers, and I talked to people who are driving their cars, I still wouldn't know anything about what it's going to look like 5 or 10 years from now.

但我知道,我们的定制画框生意,你是攻不破的。

But I know that you can't crack our custom picture frame business.

我是说,你不可能想出什么办法去接触这个行业里的那一万八千个人,然后把他们的生意转到你那儿去,因为你做不出跟我们一样好的画框,服务也根本没法跟我们比。

I mean, you cannot figure out a way to call on those 18,000 people that are in that business and figure out a way to divert their business to you when you can't offer a frame as good as ours and you can't offer service remotely like ours.

所以,这是一门好生意。

So, it's a good business.

然后——还有,Craig 是百分之百坦诚的。

And then the— and Craig was 100% up-front.

我是说,他清清楚楚地告诉了我,他希望这门生意卖多少钱。

I mean, he told me exactly what he wanted to receive for the business.

他要的是现金。

He wanted cash.

你知道,这正合我们胃口。

You know, that fits us.

而且这里头没什么复杂的。

And there's nothing complicated about it.

我的意思是,你当然可以把这事拖很久,但那又有什么意义呢?

I mean, you can drag it out for a long time, but what would be the sense of it?

我的意思是,反正——如果你要成交,那就成交。

I mean, it's just gonna— if you're gonna make a deal, you're gonna make a deal.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M36:15

对,你仔细想想,大型上市公司去收购另一家公司的时候,通常的结果是,大概有三分之二的概率,对收购方来说都是一笔很糟糕的交易;可即便这样,人们还是会花上极其多的时间去做。

Yeah, if you stop to think about it, the ordinary result when a big publicly held corporation buys another corporation is that maybe 2/3 of the time it's a terrible deal for the buying corporation, and yet the people have taken enormous time doing it.

而我们买下这些企业的时候,几乎没花什么时间,平均来看,结果都好得不得了。

And we've bought all these businesses taking practically no time in doing it, and on average they've worked out wonderfully.

这是为什么呢?

Why is that?

这是个好问题。

That's a good question.

答案就是,我们只等那种一看就知道的机会。

The answer is we wait for the no-brainers.

我们不是在试着做那些困难的事。

We're not trying to do the difficult things.
M2
M26:52

那些事也不是我们擅长的。

We're not equipped for those.
M3
M36:54

对,而且我们有耐心等。

Yeah, and we have the patience to wait.

而且我们又特别古怪,所以在 American 其实有相当不少企业,宁可把公司卖给我们,也不愿意卖给别人。

And then we're so peculiar that there actually are a good number of businesses in America where they prefer selling to us than to other people.

这很有帮助。

That's very helpful.
M2
M27:11

我刚看到一家大公司的一份回顾,说它在最近五年里做了十笔收购。

I just saw a review of a major company made 10 acquisitions in a recent 5-year period.

这十笔收购,每一笔之前都做了尽职调查,还有他们会走的那一整套花里胡哨的流程,可能还有投资银行给他们做的材料,什么都有。

Every one of those 10 acquisitions was preceded by due diligence and all the baloney they go through, and they probably had an investment banker's book and everything.

结果这十笔里面,没有一笔在二零零一年达到,甚至接近,当初收购时演示材料里说的预期。

Not one of the 10, uh, in 2001 lived up or was even close to the expectation, uh, of the presentation that was made at the time of purchase.

合起来看,这十家公司在二零零一年赚到的钱,只有当初预测的四分之一。

In aggregate, the 10 earned one-quarter of what they were projected to earn in 2001.

换句话说,当初的预测是实际盈利的四倍。

In other words, the projections were for 4 times the actual earnings.

而且这些还是那种有战略收购部门的公司,你知道,养了一大堆人去做尽职调查,还有投资银行一路上“帮”他们。

And these were companies with strategic— this is a company with a strategic, you know, acquisition department, with loads of people to go over the due diligence, with investment bankers, quote, helping them, end quote, all along the way, you know.

结果十笔里面十笔都惨败。

And 10 out of 10 failed miserably.

所以你就得问问自己,这种结果到底是怎么搞出来的?

And, you know, you have to ask yourself, how can you produce that?

因为那段时间世界也没糟到天塌下来。

Because the world didn't go to hell during that period either.

我的意思是,那又不是什么进入大萧条之类的时期。

I mean, it was— that was not a time when we went into a Great Depression or anything of the sort.

说到底,他们买的是别人卖给他们的东西,而这些交易刚好满足了管理层自己没看清、但内心又有的一些东西。

It's— they were getting— they were buying what was getting sold to them, and it was fulfilling some things that the management missed, that the management had about itself.
M1
M18:31

对。

Right.
M2
M28:32

而管理层对自己往往有很多神话般的想象。

And managements have many myths about themselves.

其实这事没那么复杂,你只要等那个 fat pitch 就行。

And it isn't that complicated if you just wait for the fat pitch.

而且这个 fat pitch 也不一定非得是别人干了什么蠢事之类的,因为人们通常不会那样。

And the fat pitch doesn't have to be somebody else doing something dumb or anything like that, because people don't do that.

来找我们的人,都是有充分理由的。

The people that come to us come for a good reason.

我是说,他们通常想要的是这样一种交易:第一,如果真达成协议,他们希望这笔交易一定能成交;第二,他们希望公司里的人能因为这笔交易而感到满意。

I mean, they usually want a transaction that— A, they want one they're sure to close if a deal is made, and they want one that will leave the people happy that are at the business.

我记得在 Johns-Manville 宣布买家是 Berkshire 的时候,听说现场大家起立鼓掌。

When it was announced at Johns-Manville, I believe, that Berkshire was the buyer, I understand there was a standing ovation, you know.

还有,我在 Jordan's 也见过,在 Star Furniture 也见过,大家都会担心。

And then, uh, I've seen it at, you know, whether it's Jordan's or Star Furniture, people are concerned.

如果你在一家公司已经干了二十年,你也知道拥有这家公司的家族年纪越来越大,还有一些自己的问题要处理,相信我,大家会在走廊里谈这些事。

If you've been working in a company for 20 years and you know that the owning family is getting older and has some problems to take care of, believe me, they talk in the hallways about that.

大家会担心,将来这个家族把公司卖掉之后,到底会发生什么。

What's going to happen when, you know, the family sells the place, and people worry about that.

所以,能给他们一个答案,让他们在宣布企业已经易主的那个晚上都能睡得着,这对一些卖家来说意义很大;但对另一些卖家来说,则完全没意义。

And to have an answer for them so that they all sleep the night that they get— it's announced that the business has changed hands— means a lot to some owners, and it doesn't mean anything to any other owners.

我觉得我们从来没有从 financial operator 手里买过企业。

I don't think we've ever bought a business from a financial operator.

Charlie,你能想到哪一笔吗?

Can you think of any, Charlie?
M3
M39:52

我一笔也想不出来。

I can't think of one.

你知道,曾经有人把法律体系里的地狱定义成一个地方:程序正义没完没了,但就是没有真正的正义。我们现在都快接近那种状态了。

You know, somebody once defined hell in a legal system as a place with endless due process and no justice, and we're getting close.

同样,在公司世界里,如果你有没完没了的尽职调查,却一点 horse sense 都没有,那你描述的就是企业版的地狱,至少对那些拥有企业的人来说是这样。

And similarly, in the corporate world, if you have endless due diligence and no horse sense, you've just described a corporate hell, at least for the people who own the business.
M2
M210:28

回到 Zone 1。

Go back to Zone 1.