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2018年伯克希尔股东大会问答集锦(中文字幕)

815 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 101:14
M1
M10:00

我想先花几分钟,给大家一点角度,讲讲你该怎么去看待投资,而不是一路上总盯着今天、甚至这一分钟发生了什么。

And I would like to just spend just a couple of minutes giving you a little perspective on how you might think about investments as opposed to the tendency to focus on what's happening today or even this minute as you go through.

为了说明这一点,我想先回顾一点我个人的经历,我们就从这儿开始。

And to help me in doing that, I'd like to go back through a little personal history, and we will start.

我手上这份,是一九四二年三月十二日的 New York Times。

I have here a New York Times of March 12th, 1942.

我的阅读进度稍微落后了一点。

I'm a little behind on my reading.

如果你回到那个时候,大概是——怎么说呢——距离我们卷入一场战争也就刚刚三个月,而当时这场战争我们还是处在失利中的。

If you go back to that time, it was about, what, just about 3 months since we got involved in a war which we were losing at that point.

报纸头版上全都是坏消息。

The newspaper headlines were filled with bad news.

都是来自 Pacific 的消息,我只摘了三月十一日之前几天里的几条标题,等一下我会解释。

From the Pacific, and I've taken just a couple of the headlines from the days preceding March 11th, which I'll explain.

那一天对我来说算是个挺重要的日子,所以你们可以看看这些标题。

It was kind of a momentous day for me, and so you can see these headlines.

我想现在屏幕上应该是第二张 slide,那时候我们的处境很糟。

We've got slide 2 up there, I believe, and we were in trouble.

对。

Yes.

在 Pacific 的麻烦非常大。

Big trouble in the Pacific.

再过两个月左右,Philippines 就会失守了,但在当时,我们接收到的已经全是坏消息。

It was only going to be a couple months later that the Philippines fell, but here we were getting bad news.

我们可以切到第三张 slide,看三月九日那天的。

We might go to slide 3 for March 9th.

反正我希望你们能看清这些标题。

I hope you can read the headlines anyway.

顺便说一句,这份报纸卖三美分。

The price of the paper is 3 cents, incidentally.

来,我们再看看,屏幕上现在应该是三月十日的那张 slide。

And let's see, we've got March 10th up there, a slide.

我想确认一下——用这种先进的 slide 技术,我得确保我给你们看的,和我面前看到的是同一个东西。

I want to get the—with this advanced technology of slides, I want to make sure I'm showing you the same thing that I'm seeing in front of me.

总之,到了三月十日,消息还是一样糟糕。

So anyway, on March 10th, once again, the news was bad.

Hull 正在为通往 Australia 清路。

Hull clearing path to Australia.
M2
M22:37

没错。

That's right.
M1
M12:38

当时股市其实也反映了这种情况。我一直在看一只股票,叫 Cities Service preferred stock,前一年它卖到过八十四美元。

And it was like it—the stock market had been reflecting this, and I'd been watching a stock called Cities Service preferred stock, which had sold at $84 the previous year.

而在更前一年的一月初,也就是两个月前,它的价格是五十五美元。

It had sold at $55 the year before, early in January, 2 months earlier.

到了三月十日,它已经跌到四十美元了。

And now it was down to $40 on March 10th.

所以那天晚上,尽管头条都是这些消息,我还是对我爸说,我说,我觉得我想下手了,我想请你第二天帮我买三股 Cities Service Preferred。

So that night, despite these headlines, I said to my dad, I said, I think I'd like to pull the trigger, and I'd like you to buy me 3 shares of Cities Service Preferred the next day.

那就是我的全部家当了。

And that was all I had.

我是说,那就是我攒下来的全部本金。

I mean, that was my capital accumulated.

是前面大概五年时间里一点点攒起来的。

Over the previous 5 years or thereabouts.

于是第二天早上,我爸就买了三股。

And so my dad, the next morning, bought 3 shares.

好,我们来看看第二天发生了什么。

Well, let's take a look at what happened the next day.

请切到下一张 slide。

Let's go to the next slide, please.

那可不是个好日子。

And it was not a good day.

股市这边,道琼斯工业平均指数跌破了一百点这个关口。

The stock market, the Dow Jones Industrials broke 100 on the downside.

你们看到,它当时是跌了百分之二点二八,不过按现在来算,大概相当于跌了五百点。

Now, they were down 2.28%, as you see, but that was the equivalent of about a 500-point drop now.

所以我那时候在学校里,当然就在想到底发生什么事了。

So I'm in school wondering what is going on, of course.

顺便说一句,你们看图表左边,New York Times 把 Dow Jones Industrial Average 放在了他们自己计算的那些平均指数下面。

Incidentally, you'll see on the left side of the chart, the New York Times put the Dow Jones Industrial Average below all the averages they calculated.

他们当时有自己的一套平均指数,不过后来都消失了,只有 Dow Jones 一直延续了下来。

They had their own averages, which have since disappeared, but the Dow Jones has continued.

所以到第二天,我们可以切到下一张,你们就会看到后来发生了什么。

So the next day, we can go to the next slide and you will see what happened.

那只原本是三十九美元的股票,我爸爸那天一早就按我的要求帮我买了,我那三股。

The stock that was at $39, my dad bought my stock right away in the morning because I'd asked him to, my 3 shares.

所以我算是买在了当天最高点。

And so I paid the high for the day.

那三十八点二五美元就是我的成交价,也就是当天最高价。

That $38.25 was my ticket, which is the high for the day.

结果到收盘的时候,它跌到了三十七美元,这种情况还真挺符合我后来很多年做股票时机把握的一贯风格。

And by the end of the day, it was down to 37, which was really kind of characteristic of my timing in stocks that was going to appear in future years.

不过这只股票是在当时叫 New York Curb Exchange 的市场上交易的,后来那个市场改成了 American Stock Exchange。

But it was on the, what was then called the New York Curb Exchange, then became the American Stock Exchange.

不过后来局势还是有了变化,虽然一直到 Midway Battle 之前,战争形势看起来都很糟,如果你们切到下一张,就会看到这只股票后来表现得相当不错。

But things, even though the war until the Battle of Midway looked very bad and if you'll turn to the next slide, please, you'll see that the stock did rather well.

你们能看到我买入的位置,三十八点二五美元,后来这只股票一路涨上去,最后 City Service Company 的收购价实际上超过了每股两百美元。

You can see where I bought it, $38.25, and then the stock went on actually to eventually be called by the City Service Company for over $200 a share.

不过这并不是个让人开心的故事,因为如果你们翻到下一页,就会看到我——嗯,就像大家常说的那样,你知道,当时看起来这主意挺不错的。

But this is not a happy story, because if you go to the next page, you will see that I— well, as they always say, it seemed like a good idea at the time, you know.

所以我把它卖了,我在上面赚了五美元。

So I sold, I made $5 on it.

这 again 也是一种很典型的行为。

It was, it was again typical of behavior.

不过当你看着它跌到二十七美元的时候,你就会觉得,能赚到这点已经挺不错了。

But when you watch it go down to 27, you know, it looked pretty good to get that.
M2
M26:13

利润。

Profit.
M1
M16:13

不过,说这些到底想说明什么呢?

Well, what's the point of all this?

好,我们先把 City Service 这个故事放一边,我想请你们再把自己带回到一九四二年三月十一号。

Well, we can leave behind the City Service story, and I would like you to again imagine yourself back on March 11th, 1942.

就像我说的,那时候不光是 Pacific 那边,European theater 的局势看起来也很糟,但这个国家的每个人都知道,美国最终会赢得这场战争。

And as I say, things were looking bad in the European theater as well as what was going on in the Pacific, but everybody in this country knew America was gonna win the war.

我的意思是,你知道,我们确实是被打了个措手不及,但我们会赢,而且我们也知道,美国这套制度从一七七六年以来一直运转得很好。

I mean, it was, you know, we'd gotten blindsided, but we were gonna win the war, and we knew that the American system had been working well since 1776.

所以如果你们切到下一张,我想请你们设想一下,假如在那个时候,呃,你投资了一万美元,把这笔钱放进一个 index fund。

So if you'll turn to the next slide, I'd like you to imagine that at that time, uh, you had invested $10,000, and you put that money in an index fund.

那时候我们还没有 index fund,不过实际上,你等于就是买了 S&P 500。

We didn't have index funds then, but, but you in effect bought the S&P 500.

现在,我想请你们先认真想一想,而且——先别切这张幻灯片。

Now, I would like you to think a while, and don't— do not change the slide here for a minute.

我想请你们想想,如果你只有一个最基本的前提,那就是像买农场一样,买来之后一辈子持有,并且依靠农场的产出来判断这是不是一笔明智的投资,那么这一万美元到现在会值多少钱。

I'd like you to think about how much that $10,000 would now be worth if you just had one basic premise, just like in buying a farm, you buy it to hold throughout your lifetime and depend, and you look to the output of the farm to determine whether you made a wise investment.

如果你买的是一栋公寓,或者一栋你打算持有一辈子的小型 apartment house,你也是看它的产出来判断自己这笔投资是不是明智。

You look to the output of the apartment house to decide whether you made a wise investment if you buy an apartment, small apartment house to hold for your life.

那再假设,你决定把这一万美元投进去,持有一份 American business 的所有权,呃,而且从此再也不看任何股票报价,也不再听任何人给你建议,或者类似这些东西。

And let's say instead you decided to put the $10,000 in and hold a piece of American business, uh, and never look at another stock quote, never listen to another person give you advice or anything of the sort.

我想请你们想一想,你现在可能会有多少钱。

I want you to think how much money you might have now.

现在你脑子里已经有一个数字了,我们来看下一张幻灯片,答案就出来了。

And now that you've got a number in your head, let's go to the next slide and we'll get the answer.

你会有五千一百万美元。

You'd have $51 million.

而且你根本什么都不用做。

And you wouldn't have had to do anything.

你不需要懂会计。

You wouldn't have to understand accounting.

你也不用像我第一天那样,每天都去看报价。

You wouldn't have to look at your quotations every day like I did that first day.

我那天放学回到家之前,已经亏了三块七毛五了。

I'd already lost $3.75 by the time I came home from school.

你唯一要做的,就是判断美国长期来看会发展得不错,我们会克服眼前的困难,而且只要美国发展得好,美国企业就会发展得好。

All you had to do was figure that America was going to do well over time, that we would overcome the current difficulties, and that if America did well, American business would do well.

你不需要挑出会赢的股票。

You didn't have to pick out winning stocks.

你也不需要挑一个完美的买入时点,或者类似这种事。

You didn't have to pick out a winning time or anything of the sort.

基本上,你这一辈子只需要做出一次投资决定就行了,而且还不只是那一个时间点能这么做。

You basically just had to make one investment decision in your life, and that wasn't the only time to do it.

我是说,我还可以回头再挑别的时间点,最后的收益甚至会更高。

I mean, I could go back and pick other times that would work out to even greater gains.

不过,今天你们在听我们回答这些问题的时候,只要记住,最核心的问题是,美国企业在你整个投资生涯里会表现得怎么样?

But as you listen to the questions and answers we give today, just remember that the overriding question is how is American business going to do over your investing lifetime?

我还想再补充一句,因为这点有点意思。

I would like to make one other comment because it's a little bit interesting.

假设你拿着这一万美元,听了身边那些唱衰、散布悲观论调的人——而且这种声音你这一生都会不断听到。

Let's say you've taken that $10,000 and you'd listened to the prophets of doom and gloom around you, and you'll get that constantly throughout your life.

然后你没有去投资别的,而是拿这一万美元去买黄金。

And instead, you'd use the $10,000 to buy gold.

那现在,拿着你这一万美元换来的东西,你打开银行保险箱,会看到三百盎司黄金,你可以看看它,摸摸它,或者——我是说,随便你想拿它干什么都行。

Now, for your $10,000, you'd look in your safe-deposit box, and you'd have your 300 ounces of gold, and you could look at it, and you could fondle it, and you could—I mean, whatever you wanted to do with it.

但它什么都生产不出来。

But it didn't produce anything.

它也永远不会生产出任何东西。

It was never going to produce anything.

那你今天会有什么呢?

And what would you have today?

你会有三百盎司黄金,跟你一九四二年三月拥有的一模一样,而它现在大概值四十万美元。

You would have 300 ounces of gold, just like you had in March of 1942, and it would be worth approximately $400,000.

所以,如果你当初选择的是一种不产生收益的资产——黄金——而不是一种能产生收益的资产;后者实际上会不断赚钱、再投资、发股息,也许还会回购股票,不管具体形式是什么,那你现在拥有的价值,会是持有那种非生产性资产时的一百多倍。

So if you decided to go with a non-productive asset, gold, instead of a productive asset, which actually was earning more money and reinvesting and paying dividends and maybe purchasing stock, whatever it might be, you would now have over 100 times the value of what you would've had with a nonproductive asset.

换句话说,你在 American business 上每赚到一美元,如果你买的是那种所谓的价值储藏品——每次你被新闻标题或者类似东西吓到时,总有人叫你赶紧去买——那你获得的收益还不到一美分。

In other words, for every dollar you have made in American business, you'd have less than a penny of gain by buying into a store of value, which people tell you to run to every time you get scared by the headlines or something of the sort.

在我看来,特别惊人的是,我们这个国家一路走来,背后一直有你能想象到的最强顺风。

It's just remarkable to me that we have operated in this country with the greatest tailwind at our back that you can imagine.

这里简直就是投资者的天堂。

It's an investor's haven.

我是说,除非你买错了股票,或者在错误的时候情绪上头,不然你其实很难搞砸。

I mean, you can't really fail at it unless you buy the wrong stock or just get excited at the wrong time.

但如果你持有的是 America 的一篮子资产,而且这些年持续不断地把钱投进去,那和持有一个什么都不会产出的东西相比,根本没法比。

But if you own a cross-section of America and you put your money in consistently over the years, there's just, there's no comparison against owning something that's going to produce nothing.

而且坦白讲,这也比你试图在股票里进进出出、再去付钱给投资顾问要强得多。

And frankly, there's no comparison with trying to jump in and out of stocks and pay investment advisors.

顺便说一句,如果你当初听了我的建议,或者说这种事后看起来总是特别容易给出的建议,如果你真那么做了,当然会有一个问题,朋友。

If you'd followed my advice, incidentally, or this retrospective advice, which is always so easy to give, if you'd followed that, of course, there's one problem, buddy.

你那位和蔼可亲的股票经纪人可能就得饿死了。

Your friendly stockbroker would've starved to death.

我的意思是,你知道的,你也许还能去参加他的葬礼,算是对他的遭遇表示一点补偿;但事实是,这么做的结果会比绝大多数投资专业人士,或者那些频繁操作的人,做得都要好得多得多得多。

I mean, you know, and you could've gone to the funeral to atone for their fate, but the truth is you would've been better off doing this than a very, very, very high percentage of investment professionals have done, or people have done that are active.

想靠频繁折腾来做得很成功、去打败那种非常从容放松的投资理念,其实是很难的。

It's very hard to move around successfully and beat what can be done with a very relaxed philosophy.

而且你不需要——你不需要,你不需要懂那么多会计知识,或者股市术语之类的东西,也不需要去猜 Fed 下一次会怎么做,会加息三次、四次,还是两次。

And you do not have to be, you do not have to be, you do not have to know as much about accounting or stock market terminology or whatever else it may be, or what the Fed is going to do next time and whether it's gonna raise rates 3 times or 4 times or 2 times.

这些东西,在一个人一生的投资里,真的一点都不重要。

None of that counts at all really in a lifetime of investing.

真正重要的是——是你要有一套自己坚持的理念,你明白自己为什么这么做,然后把那些你根本不知道怎么做的事情忘掉,别去碰。

What counts is— is having a philosophy that you stick with, that you understand why you're in it, and then you forget about doing things that you don't know how to do.

好了,说了这么多让人开心的话,我们接下来进入提问环节,先从 Carol 开始。

So with all those happy words, we will move on and start the questioning, and we'll start with Carol.

你好,我是来自中国无锡的 Xiao,在首都南边。

Hello, this is Xiao from Wuxi, China, south of the capital.

我喜欢 moat-in 已经十二年了。

I've been a moat-in fan for 12 years.

祝您和 Charlie 身体健康。

Wish you and Charlie good health.

这样我们就能再看你们两位主持这个会议十二年。

So we could see you both run the meeting for 12 more years.

谢谢。

Thank you.

一个简短的问题。

Quick question.

我们知道,您和中国代表团——美国和中国的代表团——现在都在中国,就所谓的贸易战进行密集讨论。

We know both you and China delegations— US and China delegations are in China for intense discussion on so-called trade war.

那我们把话题再往前推一步,不只谈贸易战。

Let's go one step beyond the trade war.
M2
M213:40

您觉得两国有没有可能实现双赢,还是说这个世界太小了,容不下双方都赢,我们又得重新去看您那张一九四二年的图表?

Do you think there's a win-win situation for both countries, or the world is just too small for both to win, and we have to revisit your 1942 chart again?

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thank you.
M1
M113:59

我想先提一件事。

I'd like to just mention one thing.

到八月的时候,我就八十八岁了,那也是一年里的第八个月,而且这一年还是个以八结尾的年份。你我都知道,八在中国是个非常吉利的数字,所以如果你在那边替我发现了什么机会,现在就是时候了,现在正是我们该去收购点什么的时候,这么多八都凑齐了。

In August, I'm going to be '88, and that will be the 8th month of the year, and it's in a year that ends with an 8, and as you and I both know, 8 is a very lucky number in China, so if you find anything over there for me, this is the time, this is the time we should be acquiring something, all those 8s.

一定,一定。

Will do, will do.

美国和中国,在未来很长很长很长一段时间里,都会是这个世界在经济上以及其他方面的两个超级大国。

The United States and China are going to be the 2 superpowers of the world economically and in other ways for a long, long, long time.

我们有很多共同利益,像任何两个大型经济体一样,有时候也会有紧张关系。但是从根本上说,世界进行贸易是一个双赢的局面,而中国和美国是其中两个最大的因素。当然,世界上还有很多其他国家和人民,也都会影响这件事最后会怎么发展。

We have a lot of common interests, and like any 2 big economic entities, there are times when there'll be tensions, but it is a win-win situation when the world trades, basically, and China and the US are the 2 big factors in that, but there's plenty of other citizens of the world that are involved in how this comes out.

而且毫无疑问,我觉得这个国家有一点很好,就是 Democrats 和 Republicans 总的来说,基本上都相信自由贸易的好处。

And there's no question, and the nice thing about it in this country, I think, is that both Democrats and Republicans basically, on balance, believe in the benefits of free trade.

我们彼此之间会有分歧。

We will have disagreements with each other.

我们在贸易问题上也会和其他国家有分歧。

We'll have disagreements with other countries on trade.

但是这里面的好处实在太大、太明显了,而且世界的进步在很大程度上都依赖它,所以两个有理智的国家,不太可能去做出极其愚蠢的事情。

But it's just too big and too obvious that the benefits are huge, and the world's dependent on it in a major way for its progress, that 2 intelligent countries will do something extremely foolish.

当然,我们双方有时候也可能会做一些不算太明智的事,这里面显然也会有一些相互让步和博弈。不过在一九七零年,美国的出口和进口都大约占 GDP 的百分之五。

We both may do things that are mildly foolish from time to time, and there is some give and take obviously involved, but US exports in 1970 and US imports in 1970 were both about 5% of GDP.

也就是说,那时候我们大致是在卖出相当于 GDP 百分之五的东西,同时也买入相当于 GDP 百分之五的东西。

So here we were selling 5% of our GDP and buying up 5% of our GDP basically.

现在很多人觉得,我们好像并没有出口很多东西。

Now, people think we, we don't export a lot of things.

其实我们的出口占 GDP 的百分之十一点多一点。

Our exports are 11 and a fraction percent of GDP.

按持续增长中的 GDP 占比来看,这个比例已经翻了一倍还多,而进口大约是百分之十四点五。

They've more than doubled as a share of this rising GDP, but the imports are about 14.5%.

所以这里头有大概百分之三左右的差距,我不希望这个差距变得太大。

So there's a gap of 3% or thereabouts, and I would not like that gap to get too wide.

不过你仔细想想,这其实也不算世界上最糟糕的事。

But when you think about it, it's really not the worst thing in the world.

就是有人把你想要的大量商品送过来,而你只需要给他们一些小纸片。

To have somebody send you a lot of goods that you want and hand them little pieces of paper.

我的意思是,因为这里面的平衡项在于,如果你的贸易是盈余——或者是逆差——那你在投资上就会有盈余。

I mean, because the balancing item is if you have a surplus of— or a deficit in your trade, you're going to have a surplus in investment.

所以,世界上其他国家手里拿着越来越多针对美国的索取凭证,而且在某种程度上,他们会买我们的 government securities。

And so the world is getting more claim checks on the United States, and they, to some extent, they buy our government securities.

他们也可以买企业。

They can buy businesses.

所以长期来看,你不希望这个差距变得太大,因为你发给世界其他地方的这些索取凭证,在某些情况下可能会让人有点不舒服。

And over time, you don't want the gap to get to be too wide because the amount of claim checks you were giving out to the rest of the world could get a little unpleasant under some circumstances.

不过我们在贸易上一直做得非常好。

But we've done remarkably well with trade.

China 在贸易上也一直做得非常好。

China's done remarkably well with trade.

世界各国在贸易上都做得非常好。

The countries of the world have done remarkably well with trade.

所以这是一个双赢的局面,唯一的问题是,当某一方或者另一方想赢得稍微多一点的时候,就会出现一定的紧张关系。

So it is a win-win situation, and the only problem gets to be when one side or the other may want to win a little bit too much, and then you have a certain amount of tension.

不过我们不会因为贸易中出现的分歧,就牺牲——我是说,全世界不会因此牺牲全球的繁荣。

But we will not sacrifice— the world, I mean, will not sacrifice world prosperity based on differences that arise in trade.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M218:32

对,我觉得两个国家都一直在进步。当然,China 在经济上进步得更快,因为它起点更低,而且他们在保持高储蓄率这件事上,比世界上几乎任何别的国家都更有一点美德。

Yeah, well, I think that both countries have been advancing, and of course China is advancing faster economically because it started from a lower base, and they've had a little more virtue than practically anybody else in the world in having a high savings rate.

当然,一个长期深陷贫困的国家,如果吸收了世界先进技术,而且还有很高的储蓄率,那它的发展速度肯定会比像 Britain 或者 the United States 这样非常成熟的国家更快。

And of course, a country that was mired in poverty for a long, long time and that assimilates the advanced technology of the world and has a big savings rate is going to advance faster than some very mature country like Britain or the United States.

事情就是这么发展的。

And that's what's happened.

不过我觉得我们相处得很好,我也非常乐观。

But I think we're getting along fine, and I'm very optimistic.

我相信两个国家都会足够聪明,明白它们最不该做的事情,就是对对方抱有恶意。

That both nations will be smart enough to realize that the last thing they should do is have any ill will for the other.
M1
M119:26

好,Becky Quick。

Okay, Becky Quick.

这个问题来自 David Rolfe,他来自 Wedgewood Partners,这家公司从一九八九年开始就是 Berkshire 的股东。

This question comes from David Rolfe, who is with Wedgewood Partners, and the company has been shareholders in Berkshire since 1989.

这只股票目前是他们一个由十八只股票组成的投资组合里最大的持仓。

The stock is currently the largest holding in their 18-stock portfolio.

他的问题是:在过去两年里,你们列出了来自 Protégé Partners 的各个 fund-to-funds 的单独业绩表现。

He asks this question: Over the past 2 years, you have listed the individual fund-to-funds performance from Protégé Partners.

那你们什么时候会开始披露 Ted 和 Todd 管理的那两百五十亿美元的年度表现?

When will you start showing the annual performance on $25 billion that Ted and Todd manage?

你能不能说明一下,在过去五年里,Ted 或者 Todd 是否有任何一位跑赢了 S&P 500 index?

Can you state if either Ted or Todd has beaten the S&P 500 index over the last 5 years?

有,两位都跑赢了。

Yeah, both.

第一,我们大概永远都不会披露他们各自单独的业绩,但你可以肯定,不管是我还是 Charlie,都非常关心我们认为他们给 Berkshire 带来了多大的贡献。

A, we'll probably never report their individual performance, but you can be sure that I have an enormous interest in, as does Charlie, in how much we think they contribute to Berkshire.

而且他们表现一直非常出色。

And they've been terrific.

他们不光有头脑,也有业绩记录,而且他们还是非常出众的人。

They not only have the intellect and the record, but they are exceptional human beings.

还有,他们——比如说,Todd 在医疗项目上做了大量工作。

And they— Todd has done a tremendous amount of work, for example, on the medical project.

至于 Ted,我交给过他几件事,而他做得比我自己做还要好。

And Ted is— I've given him several things, and he's done them better than I can do them.

所以从一开始算起的业绩——我是这么衡量的——Ted 比 Don 晚来一点,大概晚了一年左右,但从他们各自开始算起的业绩,几乎是一模一样的。

So the record since inception, and I'm measuring it— Ted came later than Don, a year or so later, but the record since inception is almost identical.

这两位经理人,虽然起点时间不同,但和 S&P 对比起来,两个人的表现都差不多。

Both for the two managers from their different inception and matching the S&P.

而且他们也拿到了一些激励薪酬,不过只有在他们跑赢 S&P 的情况下,才拿得到。

And they've received some incentive compensation, which they only get if they beat the S&P.

而且就像我说的,他们也只是稍微领先一点。

And they're, as I say, they're just slightly ahead.

这个其实也没什么——他们做得比我还好,所以我当然也没法批评。

That really hasn't— it's been better than I've done, so naturally I can't criticize it.

他们,他们,他们,他们两个都是非常非常非常好的选择。

They, they, they, they were two very, very, very good choices.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M221:36

你以前某一年确实披露过。

You did report it in a previous year.

只是今年你没这么做,不过现在你已经在报告里写出来了。

You just didn't do it this year, but now you have your report.
M1
M121:50

嗯,我会——我们所有人面对的问题都是规模。

Well, I would— the problem that all of us have is size.

说实话,管理一百二十亿到一百三十亿美元,其实比管理十亿美元还要难;如果你管的是一百万美元之类的,那就完全是另一种游戏了。

It's actually harder to run even $12 or $13 billion, frankly, than it is to run a billion, and if you're running a million dollars or something of the sort, it's a whole different game.

这一点你也同意吧,Charlie?

You'd agree with that, wouldn't you, Charlie?
M2
M222:17

当然。

Of course.
M1
M122:18

对,好。

Yeah, okay.

就像任何一个好律师一样,除非你觉得自己知道对方会怎么回答,不然你绝不会问那个问题。

Just like any good lawyer, you never ask them a question unless you think you know the answer they're going to give.

好,Becky。

Okay, Becky.
M3
M322:31

好,Warren。

Okay, Warren.

这个问题来自一位 Berkshire 的股东,他说自己持有股票已经十年了。

This question comes from a Berkshire shareholder who says they've been a shareholder for 10 years.

我得说,这可能是我替你收到过的最尖锐的问题之一。

I should say this may be one of the most pointed questions I've ever received for you.
M1
M122:40

不过你还是决定把它提出来了。

But you've elected to give it, though, anyway.
M3
M322:43

不过我确实提了。

But I did.

这位股东写道,我每年在这场会议上看那段影片,看到你代表 Salomon 在国会作证,把它看作什么叫有道德准则的象征。

The shareholder writes, I have watched the movie every year at this meeting when you testify in front of Congress on behalf of Salomon as the symbol of what it means to have a moral compass.

投资者现在越来越希望把钱投到那些在社会责任和道德层面都负责任的公司里。

Investors are increasingly looking to invest in companies that are socially and morally responsible.

所以,当 CNBC 问到你,企业在推动围绕枪支销售的理性政策方面能发挥什么作用时,我感到很不安。

So I was disturbed when you were asked on CNBC about the role that business could play in sensible policies around the sales of guns.

你当时说,你认为企业根本不应该扮演任何角色,而且你也不会把自己的价值观强加给别人。

You said you didn't think business should have a role at all and you wouldn't impose your values on others.

更让我惊讶的是,你还说,如果 Berkshire 持有枪支制造商的股票,你也可以接受。

I was even more surprised when you said you'd be okay with Berkshire owning shares in gun manufacturers.

几年前在这场会议上,你说过,因为社会层面的问题,你不会去买一家烟草公司。

At this meeting years ago, you said you wouldn't buy a tobacco company because of the social issues.

Berkshire 好像只要对方不违法,就可以和任何公司发生关联,这种想法似乎和我理解中你一贯坚持的一切都相矛盾。

The idea that Berkshire would associate with any company as long as it isn't illegal seems at odds with everything I think you stand for.

请你告诉我们,你是说错了。

Please tell us you misspoke.
M1
M123:39

好吧,我们来稍微展开谈谈这个。

Well, let's explore that a little.

这应该只是我个人的看法,还是应该代表公司所有者的看法?

Should it be just my view, or should it be the view of the owners of the company?

所以,如果我决定就各种政治议题去征询公司所有者的意见,其中一个问题是 Berkshire Hathaway 该不该支持 NRA,那我知道,要是大多数股东投票支持这么做,或者董事会多数成员投票支持这么做——

So if I decide to poll the owners of the company on a variety of political issues, and one of them being whether Berkshire Hathaway should support the NRA, I know if a majority of the shareholders voted to do it, or if a majority of the board of directors voted to do it.

我也不会接受。

I wouldn't accept that.

我不认为我的政治观点——我不觉得我一接下这份工作,就得把自己的政治观点完全交给什么 blind trust 之类的;而且在二零一六年大选里,我还募了很多款。

I don't think that my political views, I don't think I put them in a blind trust at all when I take the job, and I, in the election of 2016, I raised a lot of money.

就我来说,我是替 Hillary 募款的,我也用各种方式公开表了态,而且说得很坦率;但我不认为我那样做的时候,是在代表 Berkshire 发言。

In my case, I raised it for Hillary, and I spoke out in various ways that were quite frank, but I don't think that I speak— when I do that, I don't think I'm speaking for Berkshire.

我是在以一个普通公民的身份发言,我也不觉得我有资格替 Berkshire 发言。

I'm speaking as a private citizen, and I don't think I have any business speaking for Berkshire.

我们在母公司这个层面上,从来没有做过政治捐款。

We have never, at the parent company level, we have never made a political contribution.

你知道,我可能会去——而且我不会,我不会去找我们的供应商。

You know, I may go, and I don't, I don't go to our suppliers.

我不会做那种事,不会为了我上过的学校,或者我支持的政治候选人,或者任何别的事情去募款。

I don't do anything of that sort where I raise money either for the school I went to or for a political candidate I went to or anything else.

我也不认为我们应该在 GEICO 的投保人表格上加一个问题:你是不是 NRA 的成员?要是你是,那你就不够格成为我们的客户,或者类似这种做法。

And I don't think that we should have a question on the GEICO policyholder form, are you an NRA member, you know, and if you are, you just aren't good enough for us, or something like that.

我觉得——我不相信应该把我个人的政治观点强加到我们各项业务的经营活动上。

I think— I do not believe in imposing my political opinions on the activities of our businesses.

如果你要去界定哪些公司是纯粹的、哪些又不是,我觉得这个判断是很难做的。

And if you get to what companies are pure and which ones aren't pure, I think it is very difficult to make that call.

我这么一回答,我都快有点不敢请 Charlie 来讲了,不过还是请吧,Charlie。

I think with that response, I'm almost afraid to call on Charlie, but go ahead, Charlie.
M2
M225:52

嗯,很明显,你还是会划一条界限的,Warren。

Well, obviously, you do draw a limit, Warren.

对,我们会。

Yeah, we do.

有很多事情虽然合法,但还是低于我们的标准。

There are all kinds of things which are beneath us even though they're legal.

但我们也不一定能把这条线画得完全正确,不是因为我们有什么至高无上的见识。

But we don't necessarily draw it perfectly because we've got some sort of supreme knowledge.

我们只是尽力做到最好。

We just do the best we can.

当然,我们也不会把 Omaha 周边所有跟打野火鸡有关的枪都禁掉。

And certainly, we're not going to ban all guns surrounding wild turkeys in Omaha.

对,不会。

No.

嗨,早上好,Buffett 先生,Munger 先生。

Hi, good morning, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger.

我叫 Steffi Yu,来自 Horizon Insights,一家总部在 Shanghai、专注中国市场的研究公司。

My name is Steffi Yu from Horizon Insights, a China-focused research firm based in Shanghai.

我在中国有很多共同基金客户,他们都很年轻,或者说相对更年轻一些,而且他们管理的资金规模也比较小。

So I have a lot of mutual fund clients in China who are very young, relatively younger, and they manage a smaller portion of funds.
M1
M126:46

所以我的问题是,如果你今天的投资组合里只有十亿美元——

So my question is, if you only have $1 billion in your portfolio—

今天只有十亿美元的投资组合,你会怎么调整你的投资?

portfolio today, how would you change your investments?

你会考虑在像 China 这样的新兴市场寻找更多投资机会吗?

Would you consider more investment opportunities in emerging markets such as China?

谢谢。

Thank you.

对,我会这么说,如果我是拿着十亿美元在操作,我大概还是会先在美国这个三十万亿美元的市场里找机会,因为总的来说,那里的东西我比世界其他地方更了解。

Yeah, I would, I would say if I were working with a billion, I would probably find within a $30 trillion market in the United States where I understood things better just generally than I do around the world.

顺带一提,我很可能会在那里找到一些机会,而且这些机会很可能会比我们现在拿着几千亿美元时能找到的机会还要更好,甚至好上不少。

I'd probably find opportunities there that would be better, incidentally, by some margin than what we can find for hundreds of billions.

但我也不会——我绝不会把新兴市场排除在外。

But I wouldn't— there's no way I'd rule out emerging markets.

大概十五年前,有那么一次,就因为这事挺有意思的,也让我想起自己年轻的时候,我在一个周末翻了一本 Korean 股票名录,然后我买了——而且这些都是些小股票。

There was a time 15 years ago or so when, just because it was kind of interesting and it took me back to my youth, on a weekend, I went through a directory of Korean stocks, and I bought— and these were small stocks.

嗯,按 Korean 或 American 企业的标准来看,它们都算小。

Well, they were small by the standards of either Korean or American business.

公司本身其实不小,但我找出了十五到二十家从统计上看很便宜的公司。

They were big companies, but I found 15 or 20 that were statistically cheap.

我自己每一家都买了一点。

Bought some of each one myself.

资金规模比较小的时候,确实会有一些我们现在根本做不了的机会。

There are opportunities with smaller amounts of money to do things that we just can't do.

我第一反应通常还是会先把 United States 的东西仔细翻一遍。

My first inclination always would be to comb through things in the United States.

但我也会去看别的国家。

But I'd go into other countries.

不过我大概不会去特别小的市场,因为哪怕只是交易执行、税务这些方面,都可能有很多麻烦,还有各种别的问题。

I probably wouldn't get into very small markets because there can be a lot of difficulties even in market execution and taxation, a lot of things.

你是能找到机会的。

You can find it.

如果你在 America、China、Britain 还有其他几个地方都找不到,那你多半也不会在别的什么地方找到。

If you can't find it in America and China and Britain and a few other places, you probably aren't going to find it someplace else.

你可能会觉得自己找到了,但也可能——那其实是另一种玩法。你知道,我们的问题是规模,不是地理位置。

You may think you found it, but there may be— it may be a different game than, you know, uh, our problem is size, not geography.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M229:11

嗯,我现在在 China 持有的股票占比已经比你高了,所以我支持这位年轻女士的看法。

Well, I already have more stocks in China than you do as a percentage, so I'm with the young lady.
M1
M129:21

好吧,那你可以——你想点几个名字吗?

Okay, well, you can— you want to name names?

这些股票总该有名字吧,还是——

Do these stocks have names, or—.
M2
M229:26

不,我不说。

No, I don't.
M1
M129:29

Carol,这个问题——

Carol, this question—.

我还想再补充一点。

And I should just add one thing.

你在 China 会找到很多机会。

You will find plenty of opportunities in China.

Charlie 会说,和在 United States 拿着差不多资金规模的人比起来,你那边甚至是更好的狩猎场。

Charlie would say you've got a better hunting ground than even a person with similar capital in the United States.

你同意这个说法吗?

Would you agree with that?
M2
M229:43

对,我同意。

Yes, I do.
M1
M129:44

对,对。

Yeah, yeah.

所以,从某种意义上说,这也合乎逻辑,因为那也是一个更年轻的市场。

So, and in a sense, it's logical that should be the case because it's a younger market as well.

但它同时又是个很大的市场。

But still a large market.

所以,那个,呃,市场大概会随着年龄增长,逐步走向更高效率。

So that, that, uh, markets probably work toward efficiency as they age.

三十年前,Japan 就出现过一种很奇怪的情况,warrants 的定价明显偏离,应有尽有的怪现象。过一阵子大家注意到了,这种情况也就消失了。

Japan had this very strange situation with warrants being priced out of line and all of that, uh, 30 years ago, and it— people notice after a while, it disappears.

不过市场在发展过程中,确实可能会出现一些非常奇怪的事情。

But there can be some very strange things happen in markets as they develop.

我想这一点你也会同意吧,Charlie,是不是?

I think you'd agree with that, Charlie, wouldn't you?
M2
M230:26

完全同意。

Absolutely.

对。

Yeah.
M1
M130:29

Jonathan?

Jonathan?
M3
M330:30

这个问题来自 Kaylee,实际上是直接关于护城河这个话题的。

This question comes from Kaylee and actually is directly about the issue of moats.

他说,Elon Musk 这周在 Tesla 的财报电话会上是这么说的,我引用一下:我觉得护城河很逊。

He notes that Elon Musk this week on his Tesla earnings call said the following, quote, I think moats are lame.

它们有点像那种挺好、但只是古老残留物一样的东西;如果你抵御入侵军队的唯一防线就是一条护城河,那你撑不了多久。

They are like nice in a sort of quaint vestigial way, and if your only defense against invading armies is a moat, you will not last long.

真正重要的是创新的速度。

What matters is the pace of innovation.

那才是决定竞争力的根本因素。引用结束。

That is the fundamental determinant of competitiveness, unquote.

所以 Warren,看来这个世界已经变了。

So Warren, it seems the world has changed.

商业竞争越来越激烈了。

Business is getting more competitive.

创新速度、科技,正在影响一切。

Pace of innovation, technology is impacting everything.

Elon 说得对吗?

Is Elon right?
M2
M231:11

嗯,他的意思是,Warren,Elon 说传统的护城河已经过时了,如果只是像一滩水那样的护城河,那这话倒也没错。

Well, the idea is, Warren, Elon says a conventional moat is quaint, and that's true of a puddle of water.

他还说,最好的护城河是拥有很强大的竞争地位,这一点也对。

And he says that the best moat would be to have a big competitive position, and that is also right.

这说法挺荒唐的。

It's ridiculous.

Warren 又不打算真的去修一条护城河。

Warren does not intend to build an actual moat.

虽然那玩意儿确实挺古雅的。

Even though they're quaint.
M1
M131:43

对。

Yeah.

确实有非常多的企业,

There's certainly a great number of businesses.

这种情况一直都存在,不过近些年看起来节奏确实加快了,诸如此类。

This has always been true, but it does seem like the pace has accelerated and so on in recent years.

比起以前,确实有更多护城河变得更容易被攻破了,不过一直以来都有人在试图这么做。

There's been more moats that have become susceptible to invasion than seemed to be the case earlier, but there's always been the attempt to do it.

当然了,也有些地方的护城河可能还是跟以前一样坚固,不过毫无疑问,你是可以去撼动它的。

And there, here and there, there are probably places where the moat is as strong as ever, but certainly, you can work it.

你当然也应该一直努力去加深自己的护城河、守住自己的护城河。

Certainly should be working at improving your own moat and defending your own moat all the time.

Elon 在某些领域可能会把局面彻底颠覆。

And Elon may turn things upside down in some areas.

我不觉得他会想在糖果这门生意上跟我们正面较量,不过——我们还有一些别的业务,也没那么容易被撼动。

I don't think he'd want to take us on in candy, but— and we've got some other businesses that wouldn't be so easy.

你可以看看隔壁房间里的 Garanimals,这个业务不会是被科技夺走的。

You can look at something like Garanimals out there in the other room, and it won't be technology that takes away the business in Garanimals.

也许会是别的什么东西吸引了小孩子们的兴趣之类的,但有些护城河确实相当不错。

It may be something else that catches the young kids' fancy or something, but there are some pretty good moats around.

比如说,成为最低成本生产者,就是一条极其重要的护城河。

Being the low-cost producer, for example, is a terribly important moat.

像 GEICO 这样的业务,科技其实并没有把成本压低多少。

And something like GEICO, technology has really not brought down the cost that much.

我觉得我们的处境是——有那么两三家公司成本和我们一样低,但在大型公司里,我们是低成本生产者;当你卖的是必需品时,这一点可不差。

And I think our position is— there are a couple of companies that have costs as low as ours, but among big companies, we are a low-cost producer, and that is not bad when you're selling an essential item.

好,Greg。

Okay, Greg.

这个问题来自 Atlanta 的 Daniel Cain。

This question is from Daniel Cain of Atlanta.

你们今年的年度信里指出,Berkshire 已经成为美国房地产经纪业务的领先者。

Your annual letter this year pointed out that Berkshire has become a leader in real estate brokerage in the United States.

恭喜,这在不到二十年的时间里是个了不起的成就。

Congratulations, that is a significant feat in less than 20 years.

不过我想提一个棘手的点。

But let me mention a sticky point.

如果股票市场上主动管理人的收费会拖累投资者的表现,那我会认为房地产佣金也没什么不同,甚至可能伤害更大,尤其是考虑到前期大笔现金流被放弃所带来的终身影响,以及复利的力量。

If fees charged by stock market active managers are a drag on investor performance, I would argue that real estate commissions are no different and perhaps more detrimental, especially when one considers the lifetime effects of large foregone upfront cash flows and the power of compounding interest.

我很想听听你对我刚才这些观点的回应。

I would be pleased to hear your rejoinder on the points I've raised.

嗯,对相当一部分人来说,买房是他们一生中最大的一笔金融交易,而很多人确实需要大量的关注,你往往要带人看很多很多房子,最后才能卖掉一套。

Well, the purchase of a home is the largest financial transaction for a significant percentage of the population that they make, and a lot of people need a lot of attention, and you can show a lot of houses before you sell one.

我会这么说,你看看我们现在接近五万名经纪人,我觉得他们能过上不错的生活,或者说体面的生活;但我得说,那些管钱的人赚的钱要多得多,而他们对自己服务对象的福祉,贡献可能还更少。

I would say this, if you look at our close to 50,000 agents now, I think they make a good living or a decent living, but I would say that people who manage money make a whole lot more money with perhaps less contribution to the welfare of the person that they're dealing with.

所以我不认为做房地产经纪人这里面有什么不寻常的暴利。

So I don't think that there are unusual profits involved in being a real estate agent.

我也不认为在所有权这一层面有什么不寻常的暴利。

I don't think there are unusual profits involved in the ownership.

我们喜欢这个业务,是因为它从根本上说是个好生意。现在我们大概做了全美国百分之三的房地产交易量,一年也许赚两亿美元。至于 Wall Street 那边为了赚两亿美元要付出什么样的努力,我们就先不展开了。不过我想我得讲一点 Roy Tolles 的故事。

We like it because it's fundamentally a good business, but here we are doing 3% of all the real estate transactions in the United States, and we're making maybe $200 million a year, which—we won't get into what the comparative efforts are on Wall Street to earn $200 million, but I think I have to tell them about Roy Tolles a little bit on this.

比如说,很多很多很多年前,Charlie 的合伙人 Roy Tolles 决定他想在 San Marino 买一套房子。

Roy Tolles, for example, Charlie's partner, many, many, many years ago decided he was going to want to buy a house in San Marino.

他打算要养好几个孩子,所以他让自己那位非常出色的太太 Martha 出马,整整六个月,都在 San Marino 看房子。

He's going to have a number of kids, so he sent his wonderful wife Martha out, and for 6 months, he had her look at houses in San Marino.

而且那还是很多年前的事了。

And this was many years ago.

如果一套房子开价十五万美元,他就让她出价七万五。

And if they were priced at $150,000, he had her offer $75,000.

当然,房地产经纪人都快疯了,因为他们本来面对的是一套挂牌十五万美元的房子,结果要按七万五来成交。

And of course, the real estate agents were going crazy because they were going to get something listed at $150,000 sold at $75,000.

最后,等她找到一套他们俩都特别喜欢的房子时,他才出了大概十二万美元这样的价。而那个房地产经纪人高兴坏了,终于拿到一个大致还在报价区间里的出价,于是他会非常卖力地去劝卖方接受这个报价,因为他知道自己可不想再经历六个月 Roy 用更低价格出价的日子。

And then finally, when she found one that they both really liked, he had to offer something like $120,000, and the real estate agent was so happy to get a bid that was in the general area of the offering price that he would work very hard on the seller to take that bid because he knew he did not want 6 more months of Roy bidding at the lower prices.

所以房子不是第一次带看就能卖掉的。

So you don't sell them on the first trip.

顺便说一句,我曾经在 Roy 连房子都没看过的情况下卖给过他一套房,因为这家伙太懂人性了。

Incidentally, I had Roy buy a house from me sight unseen because this was a guy that knew human nature.

你靠房地产经纪发不了大财,人家赚的是辛苦钱,而且就他们拿到的报酬来说,这种赚钱方式完全是正当、体面、 honorable 的。

You don't get rich in real estate agency, you know, people earn their money, and they earn it in a perfectly respectable and honorable manner in terms of what they get paid.

当然,和任何一个行业一样,你也知道,里面可能会有过头的地方,或者错误,或者诸如此类的情况,但我们还会继续买更多的

And as in every single industry there is, you know, there can be excesses or mistakes or that sort of thing, but we will continue to buy more

broker。

brokers.

事实上,可能过不了多久我们还会再宣布两笔。

In fact, we'll probably have another couple to announce before long.

而且我们会觉得,如果有一天我们做到全国房地产经纪业务的百分之十,税前一年赚六亿到七亿美元,我们也不会认为这是什么疯狂的赚钱数目,毕竟这是在帮助美国每年五百万个换房的人里面,有百分之十的人完成换房。

And we will feel that if we get to where we're doing 10% of the real estate brokerage business in the country and we're making $600 or $700 million a year pretax, we will not think that's a crazy amount of money to make for enabling 10% of 5 million people to change their homes every year in the United States.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M238:41

嗯,如果你说的是两千万美元的房子,那房地产佣金可能确实会变得不太合理。

Well, the commissions in real estate may get unreasonable if you're talking about $20 million houses.

一笔两千万美元的交易还要付百分之五的佣金,听起来是有点荒唐。

It seems a little ridiculous to pay a 5% commission on a $20 million transaction.

不过,那些愿意花两千万美元买房子的人,佣金稍微高一点,我们当中真的有谁会特别在意吗?

But do any of us really care if the kind of people who pay $20 million for a house have a slightly higher commission?

一般的佣金其实还是赚得很合理的。

The ordinary commission is pretty well earned.
M1
M139:15

对,我们有不少经纪公司,所以在美国某些地区,我们那边单套房子的平均成交价最高大概接近六十万美元;不过在我们大多数房地产业务里,平均房价更接近二十五万美元,或者就在这个区间。

Yeah, we have a number of brokerage firms, so the highest average transaction in one section of the country would be close to $600,000 a unit, in terms of the sales price of the house, but in most of our real estate operations, the average price is more like $250,000 or something in that area.

而且你可能得带人看很多套房子,才能做成一笔二十五万美元的成交。

And you can show a lot of houses to make one $250,000 sale.

当然,挂牌公司和销售公司之间还要分佣,通常是两家不同的公司。

And of course, you split the listing company and the selling company, usually two different companies.

所以在我看来,这并不算过分,顺便说一句,业内人士也不这么觉得。

So it does not strike me as excessive, and incidentally, it doesn't strike the people in the industry that way either.

这个行业也一直不太容易被线上替代,或者类似那种东西取代。

It has not been particularly susceptible to online-type substitution or something of the sort.

大多数情况下,房地产经纪人赚这笔佣金是实至名归的,不过 Charlie 在两千万美元房产这方面经验更多,所以这块让他来讲讲。

The real estate agent earns their commission in most cases, but Charlie's had more experience with $20 million houses, so he will comment on that area.

大家好,我是 Teresa Legazinski。

Hi, I'm Teresa Legazinski.

我来自 Nebraska 的 Omaha,我有一个关于 Microsoft 的问题。

I'm from Omaha, Nebraska, and I have a question about Microsoft.

你通过买 Apple,已经进入了科技领域。

You have gotten into the tech world with buying Apple.

而且 Mr. Gates 也在这儿。

You have Mr. Gates there.

我就是想知道,你为什么从来没有买过 Microsoft。

I'm just wondering why you've never bought Microsoft.

嗯——早些年的答案很明显,就是我太蠢了。

Well— in the earlier years, it's very clear the answer is stupidity.

但 Bill——尤其是 Bill 加入董事会之后,不过其实更早些时候,因为我们的友谊关系——如果 Berkshire 去买 Microsoft,那就会是个错误,因为如果一周后、一个月后出了什么事,比如他们的盈利好于预期,或者做了个收购,或者任何别的事,Bill 和我都会被人误会——虽然这种误会并不对——甚至可能成为别人暗示和指责的对象,说好像是他告诉了我什么,或者反过来一样。

But since Bill has— particularly since Bill has joined the board, but even earlier than that because of our friendship, it would be— it just would be a mistake for Berkshire to buy Microsoft because if something happened a week later, a month later, in terms of them having better earnings than expected or making an acquisition, anything, both Bill and I would incorrectly, but would be a target of suggestions and accusations perhaps even, that somehow he had told me something or vice versa.

我会尽量避开一些事情。

I stay away from, I try to stay away from a few things.

就是彻底不碰,因为别人会推断说,我们可能聊过——我可能跟某个人谈过什么。

Just totally, because the inference would be drawn that we might have talked— I might have talked to somebody about something.

所以我也跟那几位——比如 Ted 和 Todd——说过,有少数几个东西是不能碰的,因为会有很多人不相信我们。

So I've told the fellows, Ted and Todd, for example, that there are just a few things that are off the list, because there'd be a lot of people that wouldn't believe us.

如果我们买了之后,马上就发生了什么好事的话。

If something good immediately happened after we bought it.

当然了,要买入大量股票,你可能要花六个月之类的时间才能买完。

And of course, to buy a lot of stock, you can take 6 months to buy it or something of the sort.

我们没这个必要。

We just don't need it.

不过,这一点再加上我的愚蠢,确实让我们少赚了很多钱。

But both that and my stupidity have cost us a lot of money.

这是个非常——这是个好问题。

It's a very— it's a good question.

而且我觉得这个回答是说得通的。

And I think the answer makes sense.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M242:39

嗯,神学里有个说法,迟来的皈依总比永远不皈依好,而你已经进步很多了。

Well, it's part of theology that a late conversion is better than never, and you've greatly improved yourself.

好,下面这个问题来自 Dave Shane。

All right, this question comes from Dave Shane.

他说,Warren,你一直非常相信美国的政治制度、金融体系,还有每一个美国人。

He says, Warren, you are a big believer in the U.S. political system, the financial system, and in every American.

你说过,不管谁当总统,从长期来看,经济和美国消费者都会继续繁荣。

You've said that regardless of who is president, the economy and the US consumer will continue to prosper over the long run.
M1
M143:07

说了这么多,你觉得这个国家的人,今天是不是比五十年前更分裂了,还是说只是 social media 和媒体整体上把这种分裂夸大了?

All that said, do you believe that people in this country are more divided today than 50 years ago, or is it just social media and media in general that blows this divide out of proportion?

如果你确实觉得这种分裂加深了,那你有什么智慧之言,能帮助缓解这种情况吗?

And if you do believe the divide has grown, what words of wisdom do you have to possibly help remedy it?

那我会这么说:在我这一生里,有很多次,人们都觉得这个国家比以往任何时候都更分裂。我也经历过一些时期,我认识并且敬佩的人会觉得,因为另一个党派掌权了,所以以后再也不会有下一次选举了,宪法会——各种说法我都听过。

Now, I would say this: multiple times in my life, people felt the country was more divided than ever, and I've gone through periods where people I knew and admired thought that because the other party was in power, that there never would be another election, that the Constitution would— I've heard everything.

那有意思的是这份一九四二年的报纸。从那以后,美国已经有过十四位总统了。

Now, the interesting thing is this paper from 1942. Since then, there have been 14 American presidents.

就从我十一岁这个小毛孩第一次闯进股市开始算起,到现在,美国一共四十四任总统里,我经历了其中十四任。

Just since my young venture into the stock market at 11, I've lived under 14 of the 44 presidents the United States has had.

现在他们把 Trump 叫作第四十五任,不过他们把 Grover Cleveland 算了两次,所以实际上美国其实只有四十四位总统。

Now, they call Trump 45, but they count Grover Cleveland twice, so there's really only been 44 presidents of the United States.

而就在这段时间里,那一万美元变成了五千一百万,这期间我经历了四十四位总统中的十四位。

And 14 of the 44 have been during this period when that $10,000 became 51 million.

其中七位是 Republican,七位是 Democrat。

7 have been Republicans, 7 have been Democrats.

有一位遭到刺杀,还有一位在压力之下辞职了。

One has been assassinated, one has resigned under pressure.

这套东西就是行得通。

It works.

如果你在一开始就告诉我,未来会有 Cuban Missile Crisis,会有核武器,会有二零零八年的金融恐慌,还会有很多次经济衰退,到了六十年代末,这个分裂的国家还会出现街头动荡、像打仗一样。

If you'd told me at the start that you'd have a Cuban Missile Crisis and you'd have nuclear weapons and you'd have a panic in 2008, financial panic, and you have many recessions, and you'd have war in the streets in the late '60s from a divided country.

你肯定会说,那你他妈为什么还要买股票?

You'd say, why the hell are you buying stocks?

可这一切都经历过之后,你知道,America 虽然跌跌撞撞,但它真的、真的一直在往前走。

And through it all, you know, America in fits and starts, but America really, really moves ahead.

而且我们一直都——我们连 Civil War 都挺过来了。

And we are always— we survived the Civil War.

我的意思是,对,没错。

I mean, yeah.

我可不希望非得用那种方式去挺过去,但这个国家,在还不到我三辈子那么长的时间里——如果你往前倒三辈子我的人生,大概就是两百六十三年前吧,我猜,那时候 Thomas Jefferson 才十二岁,而那也不过就是三个我的人生长度而已,那时这里还什么都没有。

I hate to think of having to do it that way, but this country, in only less than 3 of my lifetimes— if you go back 3 of my lifetimes, you go back 263 years, I guess, and Thomas Jefferson is 12 years old, and that's just 3, and there was nothing here.

你看,今天你们从各地飞到 Omaha 来,一路上你们飞过的是一个拥有七千五百万多套自住房、两亿六千万辆汽车,还有顶尖大学、医疗体系以及各种完善设施的国家。

You know, you've flown in from all over to Omaha today, and you flew over a country with more than 75 million owner-occupied homes and 260 million vehicles and great universities and medical systems and everything.

而这一切净增出来的成就,发生的时间还不到我三辈子那么长。

And it's all a net gain in less than 3 of my lifetimes.

所以你看,自从我买下第一只股票以来,我们经历了这些种种事件。

So, and we've had these events since I started buying my first stock.

这个国家真的、真的运转得很好,而且它永远都会有很多分歧。

This country really, really works, and it always will have lots of disagreements.

每次大选之后,总会有人觉得世界要完了,会说,你知道,这种事怎么会发生呢?

And after every election, you'll have people feeling the world is coming to an end, and, you know, how could this happen?

我记得一九五二年的时候,我未来的岳父在我和他女儿结婚之前,想先跟我谈一谈。

And I remember my future father-in-law in 1952, he wanted to have a talk with me before his daughter and I got married.

所以我有点不情不愿地坐下来,他就说,Warren,我只想告诉你一件事。

So kind of reluctantly, I sat down with him, and he said, Warren, he said, there's just one thing I want to tell you.

他说,你会失败的。

He said, you're going to fail.

他说,你知道,Democrats 会上台,他们会接管这个国家,然后你就会失败,不过你也别觉得这是你的责任,因为这不是你的错。

He said, you know, the Democrats are going to get in, you know, they're going to take over the country, and you're going to fail, but don't feel responsible for it because it's not your fault.

我的意思是,他是想先替我开脱,免得将来他女儿饿得要死的时候,我还觉得那是我的错。

I mean, he wanted to absolve me from this feeling that while his daughter was starving to death, it was my fault.

可我还是一直在买股票,而且一直都在一点一点地变得更好。

And I kept buying stocks and doing a little bit better all the time.

不过呢,要是 Republicans 在台上,那就没问题,那我过得好就是因为他们。

But, and if the Republicans were in, it was okay, and it was because of them that I was doing well.

要是他们不在台上,那就完了,一切都会消失,诸如此类。

And if they were out, forget it, it was all going to disappear and stuff.

这些年来,美国的公众舆论我见得太多了。

I've seen a lot of American public opinion over the years.

媒体评论我也看过太多了。

I've seen a lot of media commentary.

那些新闻标题,我也都见过。

I've seen the headlines.

可等你把这一切都看完之后,这个国家的人均 GDP,已经是我出生时的六倍了。

And when you get all through with it, this country has 6 times the per capita GDP growth, the GDP per capita that it had when I was born.

一个人的一生,六比一的变化。

One person's lifetime, 6-for-1 change.

这个房间里的每一个人,从很多方面来说,基本上都过得比 John D. Rockefeller Sr. 更好。你知道,在我小时候,他可是全世界最有钱的人。

Everybody in this room essentially is living better in multiple ways than John D. Rockefeller Sr. was, who was the richest person, you know, in the world during my early years.

而我们所有人的生活,都比他当年能过上的还要好。

And we're all living better than he could live.

所以这是一个了不起、了不起的国家,我们发现了某种非常特别的东西。

So this is a remarkable, remarkable country, and we found something very special.

如果让我选,我真希望自己是今天出生在 United States 的一个婴儿。

I would love to be a baby being born in the United States today.

Charlie,好,Charlie,你来说说另一面。

Charlie, okay, Charlie, you give the other side of this.
M2
M248:26

嗯,人们总有一种倾向,觉得我们现在的政客比过去任何时候的都糟糕得多,但我们往往忘了,过去的政客其实也糟糕得很。

Well, there's a tendency to think that our present politicians are much worse than any we had in the past, but we tend to forget how awful our politicians were in the past.

我还记得有一位很有名的参议员,极其认真地辩称,说资质平平的人也应该在 United States Supreme Court 里有更多代表。

I can remember a prominent senator arguing with absolute earnestness that mediocre people ought to have more representation on the United States Supreme Court.
M1
M148:55

对,他顺便说一句,来自 Nebraska,对吧?

Yeah, he came from Nebraska, incidentally, right?
M2
M248:57

对,他来自 Nebraska。

Yeah, he came from Nebraska.

所以我们还没糟到那个地步。

So we're not quite as bad as that yet.

嘿,Warren,Charlie,再次感谢你们邀请我们,也感谢你们邀请我。

Hey, Warren, Charlie, thank you again for having us and having me.

你们带给我们的这些成果,我真的是怎么感谢都不够,也怎么感激都不够。

I just can't thank you guys enough and appreciate you guys enough for the body of work that you guys have delivered to us.

还有你们用自己的原则树立起来的那个榜样。

And the exemplar example that you guys have set with your principles.

谢谢。

Thank you.

Charlie,你提到过——Charlie,你之前提到过,如果有机会,或者说在同样的机会、但资本规模更小的情况下,你还是会去寻找被错误定价的股票机会。

Charlie, you mentioned that— Charlie, you've mentioned that if given the chance, or the same chance with a smaller capital base, you would still look for mispriced stock opportunities.

当然。

Of course.

而这显然会通过我们所说的那家机构或者公司的 intrinsic value 来判断,也就是把未来现金流折现后加总起来的结果。

And that would be determined through obviously what we call the intrinsic value of the organization or the company in question, an aggregate of the discounted future cash flows.

你能不能用一组虚构的数据,做一次算术上的演示,来说明用数学原理怎么确定 intrinsic value?

Would you work the arithmetic using a fictional data set to illustrate the mathematical principles to determine an intrinsic value?

我也希望你能把完整的 mental model 讲进去,包括你会看的关键指标、对管理层的定性判断,以及你对它所在行业的各种假设,从而判断它盈利能力的持久性。

And I'd hope you include the comprehensive mental model of the key metrics considered, any qualitative assessments of the management, and any assumptions of its industry to determine the durability of its earning power.

还有 Warren,类似地,你能不能也演示或者说明一个算术题的例子,不过是基于较大的资本规模,并讲讲从小资本规模到大资本规模,这里面有哪些经验教训发生了变化?

And Warren, same to that effect, would you also demonstrate or illustrate an arithmetic problem set using— with a significant capital base and provide the object lessons on how those have changed from a small to a large capital base?

嗯,我没法给你一个公式化的方法,因为我自己就不是这么做的,我只是把所有——我只是把所有因素都综合在一起。

Well, I can't give you a formulaic approach because I don't use one, and I just mix all— I just mix all the factors.

然后,如果价值和价格之间的差距没有吸引力,我就会去看别的东西。

And, and if the gap between value and price is not attractive, I'd go on to something else.

有时候,这纯粹就是定量判断。

And sometimes it's just quantitative.

比如说,当 Costco 的股价大概相当于盈利的十二到十三倍时,我觉得那是低得离谱的估值,因为这门生意的竞争优势实在太强了,而且极有可能会越做越好。

For instance, when Costco was selling at about 12 or 13 times earnings, I thought that was a ridiculously low value just because the competitive strength of the business was so great and so likely to keep doing better and better.

但我没法把这个归结成一个公式告诉你。

But I can't reduce that to a formula for you.

我喜欢它便宜的 real estate。

I like the cheap real estate.

我喜欢它的竞争地位。

I like the competitive position.

我喜欢它的人事制度运作方式。

I liked the way the personnel system worked.

我喜欢它的一切。

I liked everything about it.

我觉得,尽管它当时是三倍 book value,或者不管当时具体是多少,它还是更值钱。

And I thought, even though it's 3 times book or whatever it was then, that it's worth more.

但那可不是什么公式,谁都不是靠这个的——你要是想找公式,那你就该回研究生院去。

But that's not a formula that anybody— if you want a formula, you should go back to graduate school.

他们会给你一大堆根本不管用的公式。

They'll give you lots of formulas that won't work.
M1
M151:39

这是我们在 Berkshire 的股东大会上,Charlie 最久一次还没说到那个——还没说到他更喜欢 Costco 胜过 Berkshire 这个点。

This is the longest we've ever gone in the Berkshire meeting without Charlie saying that— getting to the point where he prefers Costco to Berkshire.
M3
M351:50

好,Andrew。

Okay, Andrew.

我们收到了一些跟 Apple 有关的问题。

We got a handful of questions relating to Apple.

这个算是把其中几个问题揉在一起了。

This is a bit of a mashup of a couple of them.

Warren,你买过 IBM,后来又卖掉了。

Warren, you have bought in and sold out of IBM.

你称赞过 Jeff Bezos,但从来没买过 Amazon,而且你还加码了 Apple。

You have praised Jeff Bezos but never bought Amazon, and you have doubled down on Apple.

你能跟我们说说,你看中 Apple 的到底是什么吗?

Can you tell us what it is about Apple?

还有,考虑到你有时候对股票回购持批评态度,你觉得 Apple 是把一千亿美元花在回购上更好,还是像你通常更偏好的那样,去买别的有生产力的企业更好?

And given your sometimes critical views on buybacks, do you think Apple would do better spending $100 billion on buybacks or buying other productive businesses the way you have generally preferred?

一千亿美元可是一大笔钱。

$100 billion is a lot of money.
M1
M152:22

我以前也这么觉得。

I used to think so.

Apple 的消费产品非常了不起,这一点你们比我懂得多得多。

Apple has an incredible consumer product, which you understand a lot better than I do.

至于他们该不该回购股票,除非他们觉得自己的股票价格低于内在价值,否则根本就不该回购。

Whether they should buy in their shares, they shouldn't buy in their shares at all unless they think that they're selling for less than they're worth.

如果股价确实低于内在价值,而且他们手里有钱,又看不到更有吸引力的收购标的,那他们就应该回购自己的股票。

And if they are selling for less than they're worth and they have the money and they don't see an acquisition that's even more attractive, they should buy in their shares.

我觉得这很——因为我认为,对 Apple 来说,要找到那种在五百亿、一千亿或者两千亿美元这个规模上,真正能增厚价值的收购,是极其困难的。

And I think that that's very— because I think it's extremely hard to find acquisitions that would be accretive to Apple that would be in the $50 or $100 billion or $200 billion range.

他们会做很多小型收购,而且,你知道,我很高兴看到他们回购股票。

They do a lot of small acquisitions, and, you know, I'm delighted to see them repurchasing shares.

我们持有,大概这么说吧,我们大约持有两亿五千万股。

We own, let's say we own 250 million or so shares.

他们总股本我想是四十九亿两千三百万股左右,差不多是那个数。

They have, I think, 4,923,000,000 or something like that.

你心里可以把它当成我们拥有其中的百分之五,但我觉得随着时间过去,光因为他们持续回购股票,我们的持股占比可能就会变成百分之六或者百分之七。

And mentally, you can say we own 5% of it, but I figure with the passage of a little time, we may own 6% or 7% simply because they repurchase shares.

而我发现,如果你拥有的是一个生态系统里非常卓越的产品,而且还有很多事情可以做,我很喜欢这样一种情况:我们那百分之五左右的持股,不管具体是多少,能在我们一分钱都不用再掏的情况下,涨到百分之六或者百分之七。

And I find that if you've got an extraordinary product in the ecosystem and there's lots to be done, I love the idea of having our 5% or whatever it may be grow to 6% or 7% without us laying out a dime.

我的意思是,这在我们很多其他案例里都奏效过,但前提是,你得拥有某种非常、非常、非常特别的产品,而且它必须有极其广泛的吸引力。

I mean, it's worked for us in many other situations, but you have to have some very, very, very special product, which has an enormously widespread appeal.

还得有生态系统,而且产品本身非常稳定,同时他们也不太可能找到那种五百亿或一千亿美元规模、价格稍微还算合理、并且真的能给这个体系增加价值的收购。

Ecosystem, and the product's extremely stable, and they're not going to find $50 or $100 billion acquisitions that they can make at remotely a sensible price that really become additive to that.

当然,他们也可能找到,谁知道呢?

And they may find it, who knows?

但至少就我放眼看去,我看不到什么标的,会让他们在付出的价格和得到的东西之间,显得特别划算、特别合理。

But there's certainly, as I look around the horizon, I don't see anything that would make a lot of sense for them in terms of what they'd have to pay and what they would get.

相反,我看到的是一门他们了如指掌的生意,而且当他们回购自己股票的时候,这门生意他们也许能、也许不能用一个有吸引力的价格买回来。

Whereas I do see a business that they know everything about and where they may or may not be able to buy it at an attractive price when they repurchase their shares.

这还有待观察。

That remains to be seen.

顺便说一句,这也是我一直觉得很有意思的一件事。

Incidentally, that's one thing that I always enjoy.

人们会说,哦,你这是在替自己持有的股票说话,或者类似这种意思。

People say, well, you're talking your book or something.

如果从我们的立场来说,我们其实很乐意看到 Apple 的股价下跌。

If you talk from our standpoint, we would love to see Apple go down in price.

他们会——嗯,这么说吧。

They're going to— well, just put it this way.

如果 Andrew、Charlie 和我是一个价值三百万美元的企业的合伙人,那我们每个人的权益就是一百万美元。要是 Andrew 提出用八十万美元卖掉他那三分之一的权益,而我们手头也有钱,我们肯定会立刻抓住机会把他的那份买下来。

If Andrew and Charlie and I were partners in a business that was worth $3 million, so each of us had a million-dollar interest in it, if Andrew offered to sell out his one-third interest at $800,000, and we had the money around, we'd jump at the chance to buy him out.

我的意思是,这事其实特别简单,但大家总会把自己绕进去。

I mean, it's so simple, but people get all lost.

但如果他要价一百二十万美元,我们就不会付这个钱给他。

And if you want $1.2 million for it, we wouldn't pay it to him.

这就是非常简单的数学,不过一到这些讨论里,大家就把它搞丢了。

It's very simple math, but it gets lost in all these discussions.

当然,就像我说的,Tim Cook 会做简单的数学题,他大概也会做非常复杂的数学题。

And of course, like I say, Tim Cook can do simple math, and he'd probably do very complicated math too.
M2
M256:15

所以我们是非常赞成他们回购股票的。总的来说,我觉得在美国,公司要是拼了命地去买别的公司,交易做完之后,它们的价值往往比交易之前还低。

So we very much approve of them repurchasing. I think generally speaking, in America, when companies go out hell-bent to buy other companies, they do— they're worth less after the transaction is made than they were before.

所以我不觉得,对美国企业来说,跑去收购别的公司是一条普遍可行的致富之路。

So I don't think you have a general way to wealth for American corporations to go out and buy other corporations.

平均下来,这是往下走,不是往上走。

Averaged out, it's a way down, not up.

而且我觉得,很多公司根本没有比回购自家股票更好的事可做,也没有什么事比回购自家股票更划算。

And I think that a great many places have nothing better to do than to buy in their own stock, and nothing as advantageous to do as buying in their own stock.

所以我想,我们非常清楚 Apple 接下来会发生什么。

So I think we know pretty damn well what's going to happen to Apple.

如果真有某个价格很便宜、值得他们买的东西摆在那儿,那他们就太幸运了。

They'd be very lucky if there was something available at a low price that they could buy.

我不觉得这个世界有这么容易。

I don't think the world's that easy.

我觉得,这些公司之所以在回购自己的股票,是因为它们足够聪明,知道这么做比别的任何选择都更好。

I think that the reason these companies are buying their stock is that they're smart enough to know that it's better for them than anything else.
M1
M157:19

不过,这并不代表我们赞成所有的回购。

That does not mean we approve of every buyback at all, though.

我是说,我们也见过——

I mean, we've seen—.
M2
M257:22

不,不,不。

No, no, no.

我觉得有些人买回去只是为了把股价撑住,那当然既荒唐又不道德。

I think some people just buy it to keep the stock up, and that, of course, is insane and immoral.

但除此之外,这么做没问题。

But apart from that, it's fine.

Warren,如果我们看你过去三到五年股票投资组合的表现,其中表现最强的一些来自 Visa 和 MasterCard,它们的回报是 American Express 的三到四倍。

Warren, if we look at the performance of your equity investment portfolio the last 3 to 5 years, some of the strongest performances come from Visa and MasterCard, which put up returns that were 3 to 4 times greater than American Express.

可惜的是,你持有这两个名字——我们猜应该是 Todd 或者 Ted 持有的——过去五年合计占股票持仓的比例还不到百分之一;而 American Express 一般都是前五大持仓,平均大概占组合的百分之十,最近也接近百分之八。

Unfortunately, your holdings of the 2 names, which we assume were held by Todd or Ted, have accounted for less than 1% of stock holdings on a combined basis the past 5 years, while American Express has tended to be a top 5 holding accounting for 10% of the portfolio on average and closer to 8% of late.
M1
M158:07

考虑到这三家公司都受益于强大的网络效应和有价值的品牌,Berkshire 没有把在 Visa 和 MasterCard 上的持仓提高到更有分量的水平,有没有什么特别的原因?尤其是在那些 American Express 表现吃力的年份里。

Given that all 3 firms benefit from powerful network effects along with valuable brands, were there any particular reasons Berkshire did not ramp up its stakes in Visa and MasterCard to more meaningful levels, especially during those years when American Express was struggling?

毕竟,你也展现过同时持有同一行业多只股票的意愿,比如持有几家彼此竞争的银行股票,还有在二零一六年末买入时,以相当接近的规模持有美国四大国内航空公司的股份?

After all, you've shown a willingness to own several stocks from the same industry, holding shares in several competing banks and buying stakes in all 4 domestic airlines in fairly equal amounts when you picked them up in late 2016?

对,当 Ted 和 Todd,或者他们两人中的任何一个——我就不具体说到底是谁买的了,当然也可能他们两个都买了 Visa 和 MasterCard——对他们各自的投资组合来说,那都是相当重要的仓位。而且并没有什么禁令,不让他们因为我们在 American Express 上有大笔投资就不能持有这些股票,我自己其实也完全可以买。

Yeah, when Ted and Todd, or either one of them— I won't get into which specifically, which one of them specifically bought, or for that matter, they could both have bought Visa and MasterCard— they were significant portions of their portfolio, and there was no embargo or anything on them owning those stocks because we had a big investment in American Express, and I could have bought them as well.

现在回头看,我当时确实应该买。

And looking back, I should have.

不过另一方面,我觉得 American Express 干得非常出色。现在我们持有这家公司百分之十七点多的股份,而就在不算太久之前,我们持有的可能还是百分之十二。

On the other hand, I think American Express has done a fabulous job, and now we own 17 and a large fraction percent of a company that not that long ago we may have owned 12%.

我们几乎没花什么时间,也没有——这是一家公司,在竞争非常激烈的领域里,真的做得太棒了。很多人都很想把他们的客户抢走,但他们的客户比以往任何时候都更多,花的钱也比以往任何时候都多。

We've done it without spending time and without— it's a company that has really done a fantastic job in a very competitive field where lots of people would love to take their customers away from them, but they have more customers than ever and they're spending more money than ever.

我是说他们的客户是这样,而且它的国际业务增长还在加快,对小企业市场的渗透也非常出色。

The customers are, and the international growth has accelerated. The small business penetration is terrific.

这真的是一家相当了不起的公司,而且,你知道,我们很喜欢自己拥有它。

It's really quite a business, and, you know, we love the fact we own it.

就像我说的,这一点丝毫不妨碍我去买 MasterCard 或者 Visa。要是我当时有 Ted 和 Todd 那么聪明,我就会买了。

Like I say, it didn't preclude me in any way from buying MasterCard or Visa, and if I'd been as smart as Ted and Todd, I would have.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M260:05

嗯,要是我们能事后再来选股票,那我们的所有选股成绩都会好得多。

Well, we would have been a lot better in all of our stock picking if we could do it in retrospect.

不过在当时,我们在 American Express 上有很大的持仓,而在支付处理这个领域的前景里,确实有一小片乌云,那就是中国的 WeChat 体系。

But at the time, we have a big position in American Express, and there is one tiny cloud on the horizon of the payments processors, and that is the system of WeChat in China.

所以也不是说完全没有一点隐忧,只不过是在远处隐隐有那么一小片——至于那片乌云到底有多重要,我一点都说不准,我想 Warren 也一样。

And so it isn't as though there isn't a little cloud somewhere off in the— and I don't have the faintest idea how important that cloud is, and I don't think Warren does either.

对。

No.
M1
M160:40

现在,支付在全球都是个特别大的生意,而且有各种各样聪明的人,正通过不同方式想要改变支付安排。

Now, payments are a huge deal worldwide, and you've got all kinds of smart people working in various ways to change the payment arrangements.
M2
M260:52

想把我们现在这套东西给毁掉。

To destroy what we have now.
M1
M160:54

对,对。

Sure, sure.

而且你还会看到一些非常聪明的人——你知道,我也算其中一部分——正在打造一家公司。

And you've got some very smart people that, you know, I am a part of, that are building a company.

American Express 几年前做了个决定,为了保住 Costco 的业务,他们没有像别人那样把报价压得那么低。

And American Express made a decision a few years ago not to bid as low as somebody else did to retain the Costco business.

我觉得 Charlie 和我在这件事上意见不一样,不过我认为那是个明智的决定。

And I think Charlie and I disagree on this, but I think it was a smart decision.

他不觉得那是个明智的决定,不过我们俩总会有一个是对的,到时候那个对的人会提醒你,他当初是对的。

He doesn't think it was a smart decision, but one of us will be right, and one of us will remind you that they were right.

但如果你看看 American Express,这真是一家很了不起的公司。

But if you look at American Express, it's a remarkable company.

我的意思是,你知道,去年他们拿 Sapphire 来跟它正面竞争。

I mean, you know, they came after them with Sapphire last year.

很多人都想抢这块业务,而且支付行业也在变化。

People want that business, and payments are changing.

你也能看到,在不同国家,这件事的发展方式都不太一样。

And you can see in different countries different ways things are going on in that.

而且有很多人会玩这种钻系统空子的游戏,会因为这张卡或者那张卡的奖励更好,就从一家切换到另一家,诸如此类。

And there are a lot of people that will play the game of gaming the system and switch from one to another based on the rewards on this card or that and all of that sort of thing.

但是也确实有相当大的一群人,American Express 能为他们提供非常特别的东西,而他们也一直在这个高端客群里不断巩固自己的领先地位,而且他们在全国范围内都做得很成功。

But there also is a very substantial group for which American Express does something very special, and they keep capitalizing on that premier position with that group, and they're doing it successfully around the country.

你会在第一季度看到——其实你们已经在第一季度看到了——比如在 Britain、Mexico 和 Japan,他们的增长达到百分之十五甚至更高。

And you'll see in the first quarter, you've seen in the first quarter, you know, where in Britain and Mexico and Japan, you're seeing gains of 15% or better.

按本币计算。

In local currencies.

而且他们的基数不算小,但也还谈不上特别大。

And the base is not tiny, but it's not huge.

所以这方面还有很大的发展空间。

So there's a lot of room left to go in that.

而且他们在 small business 领域的渗透率也不错。

And the small business penetration is good.

他们的贷款组合表现非常出色,跟几乎任何同行相比都好得惊人。

The loan portfolios behave sensationally compared to really just about anybody.

所以我非常喜欢我们持有的 American Express。

So I like very much our holdings of American Express.

上半年因为会计准则变更,他们不得不暂停了六个月的回购计划,不过他们已经宣布,预计会恢复。

The first half, because of the accounting changes, they had to suspend their repurchase program for 6 months, but they've announced that they expect to renew it.

总有一天,我们甚至会拥有 American Express 更高的持股比例,而在我看来,它也会成为一家更大的公司,我觉得我们的表现会非常不错。

And someday we'll even own a greater percentage of American Express, and it'll be a bigger company, in my opinion, and I think we'll do very well.

不过正如 Charlie 说的,谁也没法百分之百确定支付行业最后会怎么发展,也没人能百分之百确定汽车行业最后会怎么发展。

But as Charlie says, nobody knows how payments for sure comes out, and nobody knows how autos for sure come out.

很多很多行业其实都是这样。

And that is true of a great many businesses.

我们身处其中,而且以前也面对过这种情况。

We're in, and we faced it before.

我们以前买过一些注定会失败的东西,比如纺织厂、二流百货商店,还有 California 的 trading stamps 业务。

We used to buy things that were certain failures, like textiles and second-rate department stores and trading stamps in California.

现在我们只是买那些确实面临困难的东西,所以其实我们是在往上走了一层。

Now we just buy things that face real difficulty, so we're actually moving up the ladder.

好,第一提问点。

Okay, station 1.

我叫 Daphne Collier Starr。

My name is Daphne Collier Starr.

我八岁,住在 New York City。

I'm 8 years old and live in New York City.

我做股东已经两年了,这是我第二次参加年度股东大会。

I've been a shareholder for 2 years, and this is my second annual shareholders meeting.

Berkshire Hathaway 最好的投资,也就是公司赖以建立声誉的那些投资,都是在资本效率非常高的企业里,比如 Coke、See's Candy、American Express 和 GEICO。

Berkshire Hathaway's best investments, on which the company built its reputation, have been in very capital-efficient businesses such as Coke, See's Candy, American Express, and GEICO.

但是最近,Berkshire 在少数几家企业上做了非常大的投资,这些企业要维持运营需要巨额资本投入,而且只能提供受监管的较低回报率,比如 Burlington Northern Railroad。

But recently, Berkshire has made really big investments in a few businesses that require huge capital investments to maintain and that offer only a regulated low rate of return, such as Burlington Northern Railroad.

我想问您,Buffett 先生,您能不能解释一下,为什么 Berkshire 最近最大的一些投资,偏离了您过去那种重视资本效率的理念?

My question to you, Mr. Buffett, is, could you please explain why Berkshire's largest recent investments have departed from your old capital-efficient philosophy?

还有,为什么您特别选择投资 Burlington Northern,而不是去买一家像 American Express 这样资本效率高的公司?

And why specifically have you invested in Burlington Northern instead of buying a capital-efficient company like American Express?

Daphne,你这可真是难住我了。

You're killing me, Daphne.
M2
M265:39

是啊,我真庆幸她不是九岁。

Yeah, I'm certainly glad she's not 9 years old.
M1
M165:42

对。

Yeah.

我正坐在这儿想,明年我们该把六位台上嘉宾里的哪一位挪下来,让你坐上来。

I'm just sitting here thinking which of the 6 panelists we're going to bump next year and put you in.

嗯,我本来还觉得我十一岁买 Cities Service 的时候已经很厉害了。

Well, I thought I was doing well when I bought that Cities Service at 11.

答案是,我们有——

The answer is that we have—.

我们很想——

We'd love—.

我们一直都更偏爱那种资本回报特别高的企业,比如我们当年买 See's Candy 的时候,或者很多别的企业也是这样。

We always prefer the businesses that earn terrific returns on capital, like a See's Candy when we bought it, or a good many of the businesses.

American Express 的净资产回报率非常高,而且很多很多年来一直都很高。

And American Express earns a terrific return on equity and has for a very long time.

我们买 BNSF,也就是 Burlington Northern,实际上说明了一点:那就是我们已经没法以我们觉得合理的价格,把更多资金投进那些轻资产企业了。

The fact that we buy BNSF, Burlington Northern, means that essentially we can't get more money deployed in capital-light businesses at prices that make sense to us.

所以我们才进入了资本更密集的一些好生意,不过要是铁路生意能不用火车、不用铁轨、不用隧道、不用桥梁,再少掉一些这类东西来经营,那该有多美好啊?

And so we have gone into more capital-intensive businesses that are good businesses, but wouldn't it be wonderful if we could run the railroad without trains and track and tunnels and bridges and a few things?

对于这些资本密集型业务,我们拿到的回报还算不错。

We get a decent return on the capital-intensive businesses.

我们买入它们时,大多数价格都相当不错,而且买下之后它们也一直经营得很好。

We bought most of them at very decent prices, and they've been run very well since we bought them.

我们依然钟爱那种几乎不需要多少资本、回报率很高、还能持续增长,而且新增资本需求也很少的企业。

We still love a business that takes very little capital and earns high returns and continues to grow and requires very little incremental capital.

只是靠这种方式,我们没法把手上的这么多钱都投出去。

We can't deploy as much money as we have in doing that.

所以,第二好的选择,是不是依然是个好选择呢?

And so, is the second-best choice still a good choice?

答案是,是的。

The answer is yes.

只是它没有最好的选择那么好。

It's not as good as the best choice.
M2
M267:48

嗯,对,我很喜欢这位小姑娘的追求。

Well, yes, I like the aspiration of that young lady.

她基本上是想从别人的销售额里拿 royalty。

She basically wants a royalty on the other fellow's sales.

当然,那是个非常好的模式。

And of course, that's a very good model.

如果每个人都能那么做,那别人就什么都不用干了。

And if everybody could do that, why, nobody would do anything else.

我们对公用事业的回报,还有铁路业务的回报感到满意,原因就是它们相当令人满意。

The reason we're satisfied with our utility returns and our railroad returns is they're quite satisfactory.

而且我们——而且它们确实相当令人满意。

And we— and they're quite satisfactory.

我真希望我们还能再有两个一模一样的。

I wish we had 2 more just like them.

你说呢,Warren?

Don't you, Warren?
M1
M168:20

对,绝对是这样。

Yeah, definitely.
M2
M268:22

所以答案就是,它们已经够好了;如果你希望我们把所有的钱都放在 Coke 里,比如按它现在卖价的百分之五去买,那你要求的就是完美了。

So the answer is they're good enough, and you're asking us to get perfection if you want us to have all our money in Coke and, say, 5% of what it's now selling for.
M1
M168:35

对,像 Apple 这样的企业其实并不需要太多资本,不过这样一来,你就得花很多钱才能买到这样的企业。

Yeah, and a business like Apple really doesn't take much capital, but so you've got to spend a lot of money to buy businesses like that.

真正拿出来卖的非常少。答案是,只要我们能以合理的价格买到那些能带来高回报、股本回报率非常高的企业,我们并没有为了去买这些别的企业而放弃任何这样的机会。

Very few are for sale, and the answer is we have not foregone any opportunity to buy businesses that earn high returns, very high returns on equity capital, or when we could buy them at a sensible price, to buy these other businesses.

所以它们并没有把别的东西从桌上挤掉。

So they haven't shoved anything else off the table.

不过你——你肯定可以来我们资本配置部门上班。

But you are— you definitely have a job in our capital allocation department.

好,Carol。

Okay, Carol.

这个问题来自乌克兰的 Vlad Koptev。

This question comes from Vlad Koptev in Ukraine.

他说,去年 cryptocurrencies 的总市值一度接近 Berkshire 和 Apple 的规模,而且很明显,crypto 背后的理念会影响到 Berkshire 持股的传统银行集团。

He says capitalization of cryptocurrencies approached that of Berkshire and Apple last year, and clearly the idea behind crypto will affect conventional banking groups where Berkshire is a shareholder.

你一直都说,你并没有深入研究 cryptocurrencies 去形成全面理解,那是什么因素让你说它是个泡沫呢?

You always say you didn't go into too much detail to obtain an understanding on cryptocurrencies, so what factors caused you to say that it's a bubble?

嗯,一般来说,非生产性资产还是——我也不知道。

Well, generally non-productive assets remain— I don't know.

如果你在基督那个时代买了黄金,然后去算它的复利回报率,你知道,可能也就是百分之零点几。

If you had bought gold at the time of Christ and you figured the compound rate on it, you know, it's maybe a couple tenths of 1%.

它本质上除了所谓的稀缺性之外,什么都不会带来。你知道,因为他们只会——能开采的数量就那么多,但那又怎么样呢?

It essentially is not going to deliver anything other than supposed scarcity, you know, because they'll only— you can only mine so many, but so what?

我的意思是,它自己能产出什么呢?

I mean, what does it produce itself?

你知道,支票这个概念是个很棒的发明。

You know, the check is a wonderful idea.

你想想看,如果这个世界不能开支票,也不能电汇转账,会是什么样子。

Just imagine how the world would be without being able to write checks or have wire transfer of funds.

但这并不会让支票这张东西本身天然就值很多钱。

But it doesn't make the check intrinsically itself worth a lot of money.

如果你说,那个叫支票的小纸片不能用了,你也会用别的方式来转账。

And if you said you can't use something called check with a little piece of paper, you'd do something else to transfer money.

我觉得,只要你买的是一种非生产性资产,你其实就是在指望以后会有别人来买这个非生产性资产,因为他们觉得自己还能用更高的价格卖给下一个人。

I think that anytime you buy a nonproductive asset, you are counting on somebody else later on to buy a nonproductive asset because they think they can sell it to somebody for more money.

这种事在郁金香上试过,历史上也在各种东西上试过,最后结局都不太好。

And it's been tried with tulips, and it's been tried with various things over time, and it does come to a bad ending.

我有点——你挺难理解的。

I'm having— you have a hard time.

你也可以想想原始土地。

You can think of raw land.

我的意思是,当年的 Louisiana Purchase,大概是花了一千五百万美元,买了大约八十万平方英里的土地。

I mean, the Louisiana Purchase, was, say, $15 million for 800,000 or so square miles of land.

事实上,你现在坐着的这块地,就属于 Louisiana Purchase 里买来的土地。

In fact, you're sitting on land that came with the Louisiana Purchase.

所以我们当时付了多少钱呢?

And so what'd we pay?

我们当时是一平方英里花了二十美元,你知道,一平方英里有六百四十英亩,这么一算,每英亩也就三美分左右。

We paid $20 a square mile, and, you know, 640 acres in a square mile, and you're down to 3 cents or something.

所以那是一笔相当划算的购买。

So that was a pretty good purchase.

我买的那个东西,在当时其实还是一块没有产出的资产。

I've been what was then a non-productive property.

不过这要看情况。

But it depends.

但这非常难。

But it's very hard.

你可以买邮票。

You can buy stamps.

Bill Gross 就收集过一套非常棒的邮票收藏,最后卖出了更高的价钱。

Bill Gross got every, you know, collected a wonderful stamp collection, and it sold for more money in the end.

但这取决于还得有别人愿意买,而且还指望他们以后能卖出更高的价格,诸如此类。

But it's dependent on somebody else wanting to buy, hoping they will sell it for more money, and so on.

但归根结底,你赚的钱还是来自有生产性的资产。

And in the end, you make your money out of productive assets.

如果你买一座农场,你会去估算作物的产量,比如每英亩能产多少大豆、玉米或者别的东西;你要付给替你耕种的农民多少钱;你的税要交多少;以及各种其他因素。

If you buy a farm, you estimate what the crops, what amount per acre of soybeans or corn or whatever may be raised, and how much you have to pay the farmer that farms it for you, and what your taxes will be, and various things.

然后你根据这项资产本身随着时间推移能产出什么,来得出结论。

And you make a conclusion based on what the asset itself will produce over time.

那才叫投资。

And that's an investment.

如果你买某样东西,只是因为你希望明天早上一觉醒来,它的价格会更高。

When you buy something because you're hoping tomorrow morning you're going to wake up and the price will be higher.

那唯一的理由就是,你需要进来买的人比离场的人更多;这种情况确实可能发生,而且它会自我强化一阵子,有时候时间还会很长,有时候数字还会非常惊人。

The only reason, you need more people coming in to do it than are leaving, and you can get that, and it will feed on itself for a while, and sometimes for a long while, and sometimes do extraordinary numbers.

但到头来,它们的结局都不会好,cryptocurrencies 也会是个糟糕的结局。

But in the end, they come to bad endings, and cryptocurrencies will come to bad endings.

而且除了这种资产本身并不会产出任何有价值的东西之外,你还会碰到另一个问题:它会吸引来很多骗子之类的人,想搞出各种各样的交易所,或者别的什么东西。

And along with the fact that there's nothing being produced in the way of value from the asset, you also have the problem that it draws in a lot of charlatans and that sort of thing who are trying to create various sorts of exchanges or whatever it may be.

这类东西会让一些品行不怎么样的人看到机会,去收割那些想发财的人,因为他们看到邻居靠买这种他们自己和邻居都不懂的东西赚了钱。

It's something where people who are of less than stellar character see an opportunity to clip people who are trying to get rich because their neighbors are getting rich buying this stuff that neither one of them understands.

它最终会有个糟糕的结局。

It will come to a bad ending.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M273:29

嗯,我对 cryptocurrencies 的喜欢程度比你还低,所以在我看来,这简直就是失心疯。

Well, I like cryptocurrencies a lot less than you do, and so to me it's just dementia.

而且我觉得那些把交易 cryptocurrencies 当职业来做的交易员,真是令人作呕。

And I think the people who are professional traders that go into trading cryptocurrencies, it's just disgusting.

这就像别人都在交易大便,你却觉得,我可不能落下。

It's like somebody else is trading turds and you decide, I can't be left out.
M1
M174:03

考虑到我们现在是在全球网络直播,我倒希望我们有些话最好别被翻译得太明白。

To the extent that we're being webcast around the world, I hope some of our stuff doesn't translate very well, actually.

好,Gary。

Okay, Gary.

Buffett 先生、Munger 先生,你们好。

Hi, Mr. Buffett and Mr. Munger.

我叫 Kevin。

My name is Kevin.

我来自中国深圳,现在在 Boston College 学习金融和哲学。

And I'm from Shenzhen, China, currently studying finance and philosophy at Boston College.

我有一个比较宽泛的问题。

I have a rather broad question.

在这个越来越全球化的世界里,你们觉得我们年轻一代,怎样才能最好地利用同时拥有中国和美国这两边的背景和经验,去创造价值,并进一步促进两国的经济和关系?

In this more and more globalized world, what do you think our younger generation can do to best leverage our background and experience of both China and the US to create value and further benefit the two countries' economy and relationship?

那你怎么看——你觉得,一个有多元文化背景的人,身上最有价值的是什么?

And what do you think— what do you see valuable in a person with a multicultural background?

谢谢。

Thank you.

嗯,我觉得,回答刚才那个问题,我认为有多元文化背景是非常棒的。

Well, I think in answer to the last question, I think it's terrific to have a multicultural background.

还有,虽然我一直都不擅长学语言,但如果我今天还在上大学,而且是在这两个国家里的任何一个国家上学,我都会去学另一个国家的语言,因为我觉得从长远来看,这会是一个很大的优势。

And if I never was any good at languages, but if I were in college today and in either country, I'd be learning the language of the other country because I think it'll be a great advantage over time.

嗯,我会先从会多种语言说起。

Well, I'd start with being multilingual.

我是说,当然了,拿这个来说,你肯定希望自己能用两种语言都把意思表达清楚。

I mean, certainly in terms of, you know, I mean, obviously you want to be able to express yourself in both.

而且你越能理解另一个社会的文化,那显然就越有好处。

And the better you can understand, obviously, the culture of another society, obviously that's a benefit.

不过我认为,无论在 China 还是在 United States,市场体系虽然都经过了一些调整,但它实际运作的方式——

But I think the market system, modified as it may be, both in China and in the United States, the way it really does.

某种程度上都会有一只看不见的手在发挥作用,随着 China、United States 以及世界其他地方都在进步,它也会改善后代人的生活处境。

There will be an invisible hand to some extent that does work to improve the lot of future generations by the fact that both China and the United States and the rest of the world is improving.

我是说,在我看来,这样要好得多,尤其是在一个有核武器的世界里。让全世界的人都过得更好,要好得多,一部分靠他们自己的努力,但也有一部分靠他们和世界其他地方的互动。

I mean, it is much better in my view, particularly in a nuclear world. But it's much better to have people prospering throughout the world, partly through their own efforts, but partly through their interactions with the rest of the world.

而且我们在这方面已经取得了很大的进展,尤其是自从 World War II 以来。

And we've made a lot of progress in that respect, particularly since World War II.

我是说,搞 Marshall Plan 真是个特别好的主意,你知道,这总比像我们在 World War I 之后那样行事,最后得到那样的结果要好。

I mean, it was a terrific idea to have the Marshall Plan, you know, instead of behaving like we did after World War I and getting the result that we got.

我认为我们在 World War II 之后做出了一个聪明得多的决定。

I think we made a much more intelligent decision after World War II.

所以我看好 United States 的未来,但我也看好 China 的未来,而且在相当大程度上,也看好世界其他地方的未来。

So I'm bullish on the future of the United States, but I'm bullish on the future of China and to a significant extent, you know, the rest of the world.

十年、二十年、五十年之后,人们的生活都会更好。我觉得这种趋势是挡不住的,是吧,Charlie,除非出现大规模杀伤性武器。

People are going to be living better 10, 20, 50 years from now, and I don't think that's something that can be stopped even, Charlie, absent weapons of mass destruction.
M2
M276:55

对,不过这个多元文化背景吧,如果你是在 China 当个肛肠科医生,或者在 Nebraska 当个肛肠科医生,就算你 English 和 Chinese 都很流利,也未必有多大用处。

Yeah, well, the multicultural stuff, it wouldn't do you much good to be fluent in both English and Chinese if you were, say, a proctologist in China or a proctologist in Nebraska.

所以,如果你想用上你的多元文化背景,那你就得去做那种处在 United States 和 China 交界面上的工作。

You just— so if you're going to use your multicultural background, you've got to work at some interface between the United States and China.

你可以像 Li Lu 那样,在 United States 募资,然后投到 China;或者你可以去做进口商,或者贸易方面的专家,总之你得靠近那个连接面,双语之类的优势才能真正发挥出来。

And you can raise money in China— in the United States and invest it in China like Li Lu does, or you can be some kind of an importer or a trade specialist, but you've got to get near that interface to benefit from bilingual and so on.
M1
M177:42

但你的判断是,这个连接面将来会大得多,对吧?

But you would bet that the interface will be substantially greater?
M2
M277:46

非常大。

Huge.

对。

Yeah.

非常大。

Huge.
M1
M177:48

而这就是你要提前准备的方向。

And that's what you want to prepare for.

对。

Yes.
M2
M277:51

而且我觉得,一般来说,当你具备多元文化背景的时候,你也往往可以做到跨学科。

And I think that generally speaking, when you get multicultural, you can also be multidisciplinary.

不过通常来讲,我觉得人要是专业分工特别窄,反而更容易赚到更多钱,就像肛肠科医生那样。

But generally, I think people make more money if they're very narrowly specialized, like the proctologist.

而对大多数人来说,如果你想模仿 Warren 和我,那要赚很多钱其实难得多。

And it's much harder to make a lot of money for most people if you try and imitate Warren and me.
M1
M178:13

幸好我没有更早认识他。

I'm glad I didn't meet him earlier.

我是说——

I mean—.

我叫 Adam Bergman,来自 Virginia Beach, Virginia 的 Sterling Capital。

My name is Adam Bergman with Sterling Capital in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

我现在和我女儿 Michelle 一起来,她来自 Virginia Beach 的 Cape Henry Collegiate。

I'm here with my daughter Michelle from Cape Henry Collegiate in Virginia Beach.

你好,Warren。

Hi, Warren.

你好,Charlie。

Hi, Charlie.

我们想请教你的是,你怎么去判断一家好企业里的某一个具体产品,未来成功的程度会比另一个更高,从而让你比如选择投资 American Express 和 Coca-Cola,而不是 Diners Club 或者 RC Cola?

Our question for you is how you go about attempting to forecast the degree of future success of one specific product in a good business versus another, such that you invest in American Express and Coca-Cola rather than Diners Club or RC Cola, for example?

谢谢。

Thanks.

嗯,说到 American Express,那是个很有意思的情况,因为 Diners Club 是先进去的。

Well, with American Express, it was an interesting situation because Diners Club got there first.

我觉得 American Express 某种意义上——我是说,他们这么做有很多原因——但他们之所以进入信用卡业务,是因为他们担心 traveler’s checks 以后会怎么样。

I think American Express, in a certain sense, I mean, they did it for a lot of reasons, but they went into the credit card business because they were worried about what was going to happen to traveler's checks.

虽然 traveler’s checks 到现在仍然还以相当大的规模存在,但有意思的是,当 American Express 开始和 Diners Club、还有据我记得当时也存在的 Carte Blanche 竞争时,他们并不是像一般会觉得那样,面对一个已经站稳脚跟的对手,就用更低价格切进去;据我记得,他们反而是用更高的价格进去的。

And although traveler's checks still exist in a significant way, the interesting thing when American Express went into competition with Diners Club and with Carte Blanche, as I remember, that also existed at the time, was that instead of charging less than Diners Club and going in figuring they were going against an established guy and they'd come in at a lower price, they went in at a higher price, as I remember.

而且那张卡上印着 American Express 的 Centurion。

And the American Express Centurion was on that card.

我自己有一张,是一九六四年拿到的,不过他们在那之前就已经有了。

I've got one that I got in 1964, but they were in before that.

随着时间推移,那东西更有价值了。

It had more value in time.

我的意思是,它带来的身份感更强了。

I mean, it got better representation.

坦白说,如果你是个销售,和别人一起出去,你掏出那张印着 Centurion 的 American Express 卡,看起来就像 J.P. Morgan 一样。

And frankly, if you were a salesperson out with somebody and you could pull out that American Express card with that Centurion, you looked like you were J.P. Morgan.

但如果你掏出 Diners Club,那上面一堆花里胡哨的标志,你看起来就像那种这个月挪下个月、拿支票来回腾挪的人。

And if you pulled out the Diners Club, it had a whole bunch of flashy symbols, you looked like a guy that was kiting his checks from one month to the next.

有个人叫 Ralph Schneider,Ralph Schneider 和 Al Bloomingdale 一起开发了 Diners Club,他们在抢先进入这件事上非常聪明,但后来在产品包装和推广上就没那么聪明了。

A fellow named Ralph Schneider, and Ralph Schneider and Al Bloomingdale developed the Diners Club, and they were very smart about getting there first, but they weren't smart about how they merchandised it subsequently.

至于 RC Cola,你知道,它并没有——在 Coke 之后冒出来的可乐其实有各种各样。

RC Cola, you know, it didn't— there are all kinds of colas that came after Coke.

我的意思是,你回到一八八六年,在 Jacobs Pharmacy 搞出一个大获成功的东西,那很快就会冒出一大堆模仿者。

I mean, you know, you go back to 1886 and come up with something at Jacobs Pharmacy that's incredibly successful, you know, fairly soon you're going to get lots of imitators.

但 Coke 就是真正的那个。

But Coke really is the real thing.

你看,你要是拿 RC Cola 给我,说我半价卖给你,相比 Coca-Cola 只要一半的钱——可就喝这件事本身来说,这是一种在一九零零年六点五盎司卖五美分的产品,你知道,而现在如果你周末买、大量买、各种促销都算上,你也并没有多花多少钱。

And, you know, you offer me RC Cola and say, I'll give it to you at half the price of Coca-Cola, in terms of drinking it, I mean, this is a product that's 6.5 ounces sold for a nickel in 1900, you know, and now if you buy it on the weekend and buy it in large quantities and everything, you're not paying that much more.

这份报纸在一九四二年才三美分。

This newspaper was 3 cents in 1942.

按实际购买力来看,你为这个东西付的钱,所换来的快乐,单位真实货币对应的享受已经大幅下降了。

The amount of enjoyment per real, in terms of the real, of what you pay for this, has gone dramatically down.

也就是按通胀调整之后的钱来算。

In inflation-adjusted money.

所以它其实是个很划算的产品。

So it is a bargain product.

你还得看看 See's Candies。

You have to look at See's Candies.

你知道,如果你住在 California,你是个十几岁的男孩,你去女朋友家,送给她、或者她妈妈爸爸一盒糖,然后她亲了你一下,你知道,到那个时候你对价格就不敏感了。

You know, if you live in California and you were a teenage boy and you went to your girlfriend's house and you gave the box of candy to her or her mother or father and she kissed you, you know, you lose price sensitivity at that point.

就是——

That's—.

对。

Yeah.

所以我们真正想要的是那种会让人想亲你一下的产品,而不是想给你一巴掌的产品。

So we really want products where people feel like kissing you, you know, rather than slapping you.

这很有意思。

It's an interesting thing.

我的意思是,实际上我们是在押注 Apple 产品的整个生态系统,不过核心是 iPhone。

I mean, you know, in effect, we're betting on the ecosystem of Apple products, but led by the iPhone.

我从这里面看到了一些特质,会让我觉得这很不一般,不过我也可能看错。

And I see characteristics in that that make me think that it's extraordinary, but I may be wrong.

到目前为止,我会说,我们在 American Express 和 Coca-Cola 上判断是对的。

And so far, we've been— I would say we've been right on American Express and Coca-Cola.

American Express 在六十年代卷入过那个很大的 salad oil scandal,是一九六三年十一月发生的,差不多就在 Kennedy 遇刺那时候,大家当时非常担心这家公司能不能活下来,但没有人停止用它的卡。

American Express had this huge salad oil scandal in 1960, happened in '63, November, right around the time Kennedy was shot, and there was really worry about whether the company would survive, but nobody quit using the card.

也没有人停止用它的 traveler’s checks,而且他们的 traveler’s checks 还能收溢价。

Nobody quit using the traveler's checks, and they charged a premium price for their traveler's checks.

所以,在消费品周围有些东西你是能看出来的,有时候这能让你对未来有相当不错的判断,当然,有时候我们也会犯错。

So there are things you can see around consumer products that sometimes can give you a pretty good insight into the future, and then sometimes we make mistakes.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M283:24

我没什么要补充的。

I got nothing to add.

除非要说一句,要是当初 Coca-Cola 刚发明出来的时候有人给我们机会投进去,我们大概也会说不。

Except that if we'd been offered a chance to go into Coca-Cola right after it was invented, we probably would have said no.
M1
M183:34

我们会拒绝的。

We'd have turned it down.
M2
M283:35

对,在我们看来那会有点傻。

Yeah, it would have looked kind of silly to us.
M1
M183:39

嗯,除非我们自己喝过它。

Well, unless we drank it.

好了,Charlie,听着。

Now, Charlie, listen.

不,他说得对。

No, he's right.

我的意思是,对于那些我们没有大量证据的东西,我们是不会去预见什么的。

I mean, we don't foresee things that we haven't got a lot of evidence on.

我是说,如果我们谈的是一种消费品,我们会想看它在很多不同情况下,消费者到底会怎么对待这个产品。

I mean, we, you know, we want to see a lot of— if we're talking about a consumer product, we want to see how a consumer product behaves under a lot of different circumstances.

然后我们还会用一种方法——其实 Phil Fisher 在大概一九六零年写过一本书,叫 Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits。

And then we want to use something— actually, there was a book by Phil Fisher written around 1960 called Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits.

那是投资领域最伟大的书之一,里面讲到一种叫 scuttlebutt method 的投资方法,这和 Ben Graham 当年教我的、主要看数字的那一套差得挺远。

It's one of the great books on investing, and it talks about the scuttlebutt method of investing, which was quite a ways from what Ben Graham taught me in terms of figures.

但那真的是一本非常非常好的书,你只要自己出去跑一跑、做点实地了解,就能学到很多东西。

But it's a very, very good book, and you can learn a lot, you know, just by going out and using some shoe leather.

现在人们把这叫 channel checks 之类的,不过——对有些产品你确实能形成一种感觉,对另外一些就不行,当然有时候你还是会看错。

Now they call them channel checks now or something like that, but it's— you can get a feel for some products, and then there are others you can't, and then sometimes you're wrong.

但这确实是个好方法。

But it is a good technique.

我会说,这是一种很重要的投资技巧。

It's an important investing technique, I would say that.

Ted 和 Todd 就经常这么做,而且他们也有一些人帮他们一起做这个。

And Ted and Todd do a lot of that, and they have some people that help them out on doing it too.

Charlie 在 Costco 上就是这么干的。

Charlie's done it with Costco.

我的意思是,他一直不断在 Costco 身上发现新的优点。

I mean, he is, I mean, all the time he is finding new virtues in Costco, you know.

顺便说一句,他是对的。

And he's right, incidentally.

我的意思是,Costco 对它的顾客群体有着极强的吸引力。

I mean, Costco has an enormous appeal to its constituency.

你知道,他们总能让顾客又惊喜又满意,而在商业里,没有什么比这更厉害了。

You know, they surprise and delight their customers, and there is nothing like that in business.

只要你拥有被你打动、被你取悦的顾客,你这门生意基本就走在很稳的路上了。

You have delighted customers, you're a long way home with them.

好,Becky。

Okay, Becky.

嗨,我是来自 Missouri 州 St. Louis 的 Brady Ritchie,一九九六年开始成为股东。

Hi, I'm Brady Ritchie from St. Louis, Missouri, shareholder since 1996.

太好了。

Terrific.

Warren,你和 Charlie 过去一直对商学院以及它们教的那些东西有些批评。

Warren, you and Charlie have been critical of business schools in the past and what they teach.

说到价值投资,在《Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville》里,你展示了很多优秀投资人的回报表现,他们的背景、工作经历和受教育情况都不一样,而要说明的道理就是,关键在于遵循那套理念。

With respect to value investing, in Superinvestors of Graham-and-Doddsville, you featured the returns of many great investors with different backgrounds, work, and education, with the lesson being following the philosophy is the key.

那在今天,要想取得成功,是不是归根结底还是回到《The Intelligent Investor》第八章?还有,你怎么看 CFA、CFP 之类这些项目和资格认证?它们号称标准很高,但根基又很大程度上是在学院派体系里。

To be successful today, does it still just fall back to Chapter 8 of The Intelligent Investor, and what do you think of programs and designations such as CFA, CFP, etc., which purport high standards yet are rooted heavily in academia?

另外,我还想挑战你,明天跟我打一局桥牌。

And I'd like to challenge you to a round of bridge tomorrow.

我上过三所商学院,在每一所里面,呃,我都遇到过一两位老师。

I went to 3 business schools, and at each, uh, I found a teacher or two.

其中有一所我是专门冲着某一位老师去的,但每一所学校里,我都找到过一两位让我收获特别大的老师。

I went to one specifically to get a given teacher, but each one of them, I found a teacher or two that I really got a lot out of.

所以我们完全不是反对商学院。

So we're not anti-business school here at all.

不过我们确实觉得,比方说三十年前——或者就有效市场理论这些东西来说,四十年前——那套学院派权威,在我们看来,离投资的现实偏得相当远。

We do think that the priesthood, say 30 years ago, for example, in terms of—or 40 years ago in terms of efficient market theory and everything, they strayed pretty far, in our view, from the reality of investing.

如果让我招人,假设可以在排名第一、第二、第三的商学院里,从最优秀的前五名毕业生中挑人,而另一边是一个很聪明、并且对《The Intelligent Investor》第八章有着绝对——就是那种天生就能领会的人,

And I would rather have a person—if I could hire somebody among the top 5 graduates of number 1, 2, or 3 of the business schools, and my choice was somebody that was bright but had Chapter 8 of The Intelligent Investor absolutely—it just was natural to them.

基本上就是融进骨子里了。

They had it in their bones, basically.

那我会选那个“第八章”出来的人。

I'd take the person from Chapter 8.

这不是——我们做的事情并不复杂。

This is not—what we do is not a complicated business.

它必须是一门讲纪律的事情,但不需要特别高的 IQ,也不需要诸如此类的东西。

It's got to be a disciplined business, but it does not require a super high IQ or anything of the sort.

当然,有几个基本原则是极其重要的,而且你确实得懂会计,这也有助于你走出去,

And there are a few fundamentals that are incredibly important, and you do have to understand accounting, and it helps to get out

去跟消费者交流,在很多行业里开始用消费者的方式去思考,诸如此类。

And talk to consumers and start thinking like a consumer in many ways, in certain industries, and all of that.

但这件事就是不需要多么高深的学问。

But it just doesn't require advanced learning.

而且说真的,你知道,我当年其实并不想上大学,所以我也不知道自己会不会做得更好还是更差。

And I certainly, you know, I didn't want to go to college, so I don't know whether I would have done better or worse.

如果我高中毕业以后就直接不读了,然后去读我后来读的那些书,之类的。

If I'd just quit after high school, you know, and read the books I read and all of that.

我觉得,如果你能遇到几位很棒的老师,他们真的在某种程度上改变了你看世界的方式,那你就是幸运的;你可以在 academia 里找到他们,也可以在日常生活里找到他们。

I think that if you run into a few great teachers and they really change the way you see the world to some degree, you know, you're lucky and you can find them in academia and you can find them in ordinary life.

而我一直都特别特别幸运,遇到过很棒的老师,Charlie 也是其中之一。

And I've been extraordinarily lucky in having great teachers, including Charlie.

我的意思是,Charlie 一直都是一位非常了不起的老师。

I mean, Charlie's been a wonderful teacher.

而且,你知道,不管在什么地方,只要你能找到一个能让你对以前不懂的事情产生洞见的人,或者让你变成一个比以前更好的人,那都是非常幸运的,你要尽量把这种机会用到最好。

And, you know, any place you can find somebody that gives you insights into things you didn't understand before, maybe makes you a better person than you would've been before, you know, that's very lucky, and you wanna make the most of it.

如果你能在 academia 里找到,那就好好珍惜、充分利用。

If you can find it in academia, make the most of it.

如果你能在你人生的其他地方找到,也一样要好好珍惜、充分利用。

And if you can find it in the rest of your life, make the most of it.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M2
M289:35

嗯,你当年找到 Ben Graham 的时候,他很不按常规出牌,而且非常聪明。

Well, when you found Ben Graham, he was unconventional and he was very smart.

当然,这对你就特别有吸引力。

And of course, that was very attractive to you.

后来等你发现这套东西真能行,而且你可以坐着不动就赚很多钱,那你当然立刻就信了。

And then when you found out it worked and you could make a lot of money while sitting on your ass, of course, you were an instant convert.

所以——

And so—.
M1
M189:55

其实,这种做法现在对我还是有吸引力。

It still appeals to me, actually.
M2
M289:56

我的意思是,不过世界已经变了。

I mean, but the world changed.

Ben Graham 去世之前也意识到,他那种专门寻找被低估公司的精确方法,并不一定在任何时代、任何条件下都管用。

Before he died, Ben Graham recognized that the exact way he sought undervalued companies wouldn't necessarily work for all times under all conditions.

而且对我们来说,情况也的确是这样。

And that's certainly the way it worked for us.

我们慢慢转变成了这样一种做法:在好公司被低估的时候买好公司,而不是在烂公司被低估的时候去买烂公司。

We gradually morphed into trying to buy the better companies when they were underpriced instead of the lousy companies when they were underpriced.

当然,这对我们来说效果相当不错。

And of course, that worked pretty well for us.

而 Ben Graham 呢,他活得够久,亲眼看到他自己大部分时间所玩的那套游戏,已经过时了。

And Ben Graham, he outlived the game that he played personally most of the time.

他活着看到了其中大部分慢慢消失。

He lived to see most of it fade away.

我是说,要在现在的市场里找到一家股价只有营运资本三分之一的公司,再判断它很容易被清算,而且每一块钱的市价最后能分到三块钱——如果你现在还能找到这种机会,那真算你运气好了。

I mean, just to find some company that's selling for 1/3 of its working capital and figure out it could easily be liquidated and distribute $3 for every dollar of market price—lots of luck if you can find those in the present markets.

而且就算你能找到,它们的规模也小得很,Berkshire 反正也用不上。

And if you can find them, they're so small that Berkshire wouldn't find them of any use anyway.

所以我们只能学一种不同的玩法。

So we've had to learn a different game.

这也是给在场所有年轻人的一个教训。

And that's a lesson for all the young people in the room.

如果你想活得久,就得一直学习。

If you're going to live a long time, you have to keep learning.
M1
M191:06

对。

Yeah.
M2
M291:06

你以前知道的那些东西,永远都不够。

What you formerly knew is never enough.

所以如果你学不会不断修正自己先前的结论,得出更好的结论,那我还是老用那个比喻。

So if you don't learn to constantly revise your earlier conclusions and get better ones, why, I always use the same metaphor.

你就像一个独腿的人去参加踢屁股比赛。

You're like a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.
M1
M191:25

对。

Yeah.

如果谁对这个比喻有更好的建议,发给我。

If anybody has suggestions for another metaphor, send them to me.

顺便说一句,关于 Graham,有一个重点,很重要的重点,就是 Graham 那一套是没法规模化的。

Graham, incidentally, one point, important point, Graham was not scalable.

我的意思是,你没法拿特别大的资金去这么做。

I mean, you could not do it with really big money.

我在 Graham-Newman Corp. 工作的时候,他可是所有分析师里的泰斗,而且你知道,在那个年代,他的头脑真的是高出周围所有人一截。

And when I worked for Graham-Newman Corp., here he was, the dean of all analysts, and, you know, he was an intellect above all others around that time.

但我们的投资基金只有六百万美元,而那个和投资公司并行运作的合伙企业,里面也差不多只有六百万美元。

But our investment fund was $6 million, and the partnership that worked in tandem with the investment company also had about $6 million in it.

所以我们总共就是一千二百万美元。

So we had $12 million.

我们当时就是拿这笔钱在做。

We were working with.

当然,现在你可以把通胀之类的因素都折算进去,但那依然只是一笔很小很小的钱。

Now you can make adjustments for inflation and everything, but it was just a tiny amount.

它确实不具备可规模化性。

It wasn't really scalable.

而事实是,Graham 其实也不在乎,因为他自己真的并不想为自己赚很多很多钱。

And the truth is, Graham didn't care because he really wasn't interested in making a lot of money for himself.

所以他也没有理由非得去找那种可以一直做下去、而且规模越来越大的东西。

So he had no reason to want to find something that could go on and on and become larger and larger.

所以,Chapter 8 从“把股票看成一家企业”这个角度来说,它的价值是非常巨大的。

And so the utility of Chapter 8 in terms of looking at stocks as a business is of enormous value.

关于第20章里“安全边际”这个概念,它的实际用处大得不得了,但这东西本身并不复杂。

The utility of Chapter 20 about a margin of safety is of enormous value, but that's not complicated stuff.
M2
M292:53

我后来终于明白了,为什么教公司金融的老师经常会教很多不对的东西。

I finally figured out why the teachers of corporate finance often teach a lot of stuff that's wrong.

我很小的时候,眼睛就出过一些毛病,我去请教过一位非常有名的眼科医生。

When I had some eye troubles very early in life, I consulted a very famous eye doctor.

我发现他那家诊所做的白内障手术,已经是彻底过时的了。

I realized that his place of business was doing a totally obsolete cataract operation.

明明更好的手术方式早就发明出来了,他们还在拿刀开。

They were still cutting with a knife after better procedures had been invented.

我就问他,为什么你在这么好的医学院里,还在做这种完全过时的手术?

I said, Why are you in a great medical school performing absolutely obsolete operations?

他说,Charlie,这种手术拿来教学可太好了。

He said, Charlie, it's such a wonderful operation to teach.

公司金融里也是这么回事。

Well, that's what happens in corporate finance.

他们搞出这些公式,这在教学上确实是很不错的体验。

They get these formulas, and it's a fine teaching experience.

你给学生一个公式,把问题摆出来,他们就套这个公式。

You give them a formula, you present the problem, they use the formula.

这——

It's—

会让人真切地感觉自己在做一件很有价值的事。

You get a real feeling of worthwhile activity.

唯一的问题就是:这全都是胡扯。

There's only one trouble: it's all balderdash.
M1
M193:54

对,所以只要你听到有人把一个理论形容成“很优雅”,你就得小心了,对吧?

Yeah, whenever you hear a theory described as elegant, watch out, you know, right?

好,Andrew。

Okay, Andrew.

嗨,Warren,Charlie。

Hi, Warren and Charlie.

谢谢你们所做的一切。

Thank you for everything.

我是来自上海 Ginkgo Global 的 David,我们是一家投资管理机构。

I'm David from Ginkgo Global, an investment manager in Shanghai.

我来这儿已经8年了。

I've been here for 8 years.

如果把投资当成奥运会里的一个项目,那你们就是我们的冠军队。

If investment's a sport in the Olympics, you are our champion team.

所以我的问题是,面对快速发展的 machine intelligence,你们怎么看这种新竞争在未来对资本配置效率的影响?

So my question is, facing the fast-growing machine intelligence, how do you see the new competition impact the capital allocation productivity in the future?

想问 Charlie,从更一般的经济利益角度看,资本配置的第一原则是什么?

For Charlie, what is the first principle of capital allocation from general economic interest points of view?
M2
M294:39

谢谢。

Thank you.

嗯,这是两个问题。

Well, 2 questions.

一个是 machine intelligence。

Machine intelligence.

恐怕我唯一拥有的 intelligence,还是来自某种不是机器的东西。

I'm afraid the only intelligence I have is being provided by something that's not a machine.

而且我觉得我大概也不会去学 machine intelligence 了。

And I don't think I'm going to learn machine intelligence.

你要是问我,靠我自己的智力怎么在围棋上赢,我做不到;而且我觉得我年纪也太大了,不适合再去学 computer science 了。

If you ask me how to beat the game of Go with my own intelligence, I couldn't do it, and I think it's too old for me to learn computer science.

总的来说,我觉得 machine intelligence 确实已经成功了。

Generally, I think that machine intelligence has worked.

毕竟,现在机器已经能打败最厉害的人类围棋选手了。

After all, the machine now can beat the best human player of Go.

但我觉得,那个领域里的炒作成分,比真正可能实现的成果要多得多。

But I think there's more hype in that field than there is probable achievement.

所以我不认为 machine intelligence 会把这个世界改变得那么大。

So I don't think the world is going to be changed that much by machine intelligence.

会有一些影响,但不会特别大。

Some, but not hugely.

另外那个问题是什么来着?

And what was the other question?

嗯,一个是 machine intelligence。

Well, one was machine intelligence.
M1
M195:43

我觉得他想问的是 capital allocation。

I think he was getting at capital allocation.
M2
M295:45

哦,对。

Oh yeah.

那可真是个太宽泛的问题了。

That's such a general question.

一般来说,我们一直都在努力做到最好,去找到值得买的东西。

Generally speaking, we're always trying to get the best, to get something that's worth buying.

而如果你在 academia 里,人的脑子会本能地排斥这种做法,因为你可以在学期一开始进来,讲一句斩钉截铁的话,然后剩下的时间

And the human mind rejects that if you're in academia because you could come in and make one declaratory sentence at the opening of the semester and you wouldn't have anything to do for the rest

就什么都不用干了。

of your time.

所以人们总想找到某种公式。

So people want to find some formula.

这就是我说的 physics envy。

It's what I call physics envy.

这些人希望世界像 physics 一样运转,但除了 physics 本身以外,世界并不是那样的;而那种虚假的精确性,除了给你惹麻烦之外,什么用都没有。

These people want the world to be like physics, but the world isn't like physics outside of physics, and that false precision just does nothing but get you in trouble.

所以我会说,你得掌握那些基本的大原则,而且你还得下功夫提升自己的判断力。

So I would, I would say you've got to master the general ideas, and you've got to work to improve your judgment.

慢慢来,就像我们其他人一路走过来那样。

Slowly, the way all the rest of us had.

而且我觉得,对大多数个人来说,machine intelligence 也没什么希望带来个人层面的太大收益。

And I don't think most individuals have much hope of individual gain from machine intelligence.
M1
M196:50

对,我也这么看。

No, I don't.

机器能打败围棋,或者类似的东西,甚至下赢国际象棋之类的,我当然会觉得很厉害。

I'm impressed when machines beat Go or something of the sort, or even win at chess or whatever it may be.

但我真不觉得它们在 capital allocation 或 investing 方面能带来多少实际价值。

I don't really think they bring much to the table in terms of capital allocation or investing.

当然,也可能是我完全漏掉了什么,你知道,也许我就是没看到外面到底有什么。

And then I may be missing something entirely, you know, maybe I'm just blind to what's out there.
M2
M297:16

你漏掉了很多很能赚钱、很能收 fee 的废话。

You're missing a lot of very remunerative, fee-earning twaddle.
M1
M197:20

对,好吧,好吧,那这个问题就算说完了。

Yeah, well, well, that takes care of that.

那我们接着看八号提问点。

So we'll go on to station 8.

Mr. Buffett,然后 Mr.

Mr. Buffett, and then Mr.

非常感谢你们举办这次大会。

Thank you very much for hosting the meeting.

这次经历真的是非常了不起。

It's truly been remarkable.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我叫 Yan,我是来自中国的一家领先电子券商 Tiger Brokers 的合伙人。

My name is Yan, and I'm a partner at Tiger Brokers, a leading electronic brokerage firm from China.

我换个说法。

Let me rephrase that.

所以我和我的同事带着 ETFs 和基金,从地球另一边飞了大半圈来到这里,能像现场所有人一样来到这个场馆,我们感到非常荣幸。

So I and my colleagues flew halfway around the globe with ETFs and funds to be here, and it's an honor, just like everyone else in the stadium.

我们很荣幸来到这里。

We're honored to be here.
M2
M298:01

我的问题是,您刚才提到过,投资者其实不一定非得在挑对股票这件事上苦苦挣扎。

My question is, you mentioned earlier that investors don't really have to be struggling in picking the right stocks.

他们只要选对市场、选对国家,可能就会有不错的表现。

They would do well in picking probably the right market in the right country.

China 是世界第二大经济体。

China is the second largest economy.

而且可能拥有最大的增长潜力。

And probably has the biggest growth potential.

如果只是被动地做投资组合配置、被动地评估投资组合的话,US 投资者在 China 的配置明显偏低。

Just by passively weighting a portfolio, by passively evaluating a portfolio, US investors are significantly underweight in China.

所以在您看来,是什么阻碍了投资者去投资 China 呢?

So in your opinion, what is stopping the investors from investing in China?

谢谢。

Thank you.

嗯,我觉得答案是,你说得完全对。

Well, I think the answer is that you're absolutely right.

我们——American 投资者——确实错过了 China,而他们之所以错过,是因为那里离得很远。

That we are—American investors are missing China, and they're missing it because it's a long way away.

看起来也很不一样。

It looks different.

他们不熟悉。

They're not used to it.

而且很复杂。

It's complicated.

新闻标题也会把他们搞糊涂。

The headlines confuse them.

换句话说,坐在 Omaha,看起来要战胜 Chinese 市场实在太难了。

In other words, it just looks too hard sitting in Omaha to outsmart the Chinese market.

但我觉得你说得完全对。

But I think you're absolutely right.

那就是他们应该去关注的地方。

It's where they should be looking.
M1
M199:16

好。

Okay.

我们实际上也在 China 做过几笔投资。

We've actually had a couple investments in China.

其实我们的表现还相当不错,不过你知道,如果往前回看很多年前,之前有一次,要把大量资金投进某个标的——很多很多个 billion,而我们必须投进去好几个 billion,才能真正对整体结果产生一点影响。

We actually, we've done pretty well, but there were, you know, well, if you go back a number of years, one of the prior times, in terms of getting a lot of money into something, you know, many billions, and we have to get billions into things to move any kind of a needle.

在你不熟悉的市场里操作,这件事就会更难。

That can be tougher in markets that you're unfamiliar working in.

其实在任何情况下这都不容易,但要在美国以外的投资里慢慢建立一个六十亿、八十亿或者一百亿美元的仓位,可能会非常困难。

And it's difficult under any circumstances, but accumulating a $6 or $8 or $10 billion position in investments outside the United States can be very difficult.

比如说,在 UK 和欧洲很多地方,只要我们持有一家公司的百分之三,就必须申报。

For example, in the UK and much of Europe, we have to report when we own 3% of a company.

实际上,就算我们持股还不到百分之三,也可能会被要求披露。

In fact, we can be asked to report if we even have less than 3%.

当我们后面跟着一大群跟风者,再加上很多媒体关注——而这些关注就我们在市场里做的事情来说,可能并不完全是我们应得的——那事情就真的会变得很棘手。

That really gets very tough when we get a bunch of followers and a lot of publicity that probably isn't deserved in terms of what we're doing in the markets and everything.

所以,有些问题就是由我们的体量决定的。

So, some of the problems are just by the nature of our size.

如果我们管理的是一个更小的基金,事情会容易得多。

It would be a lot easier if we were running a smaller fund.

像 PetroChina,我们当时设法建立了一个非常大的仓位,但政府持有它百分之九十的股份。

PetroChina, we managed to get a very big position, but the government owned 90% of it.

所以我们买下了政府不持有那部分里的百分之十四,但即便这样,也只占公司总股本的百分之一点四。

So we bought 14% of what the government didn't own, but it was still only 1.4% of the company.

但 Charlie 其实一直在催我,让我在中国多做一点,我们确实也试过几次。

But Charlie actually keeps pushing me to do more in China, and we've tried a couple of times actually.

而且,有一笔业务,我们当时还真的参与进去了。

And there was, there was one operation that we got involved in.
M2
M2101:07

嗯,你第一次做得也太差了。

Well, you did so poorly the first time.

你投了二十万美元,结果拿回了大概二十亿美元。

You put in $200,000 and got about $2 billion.

对,对,那显然还不够让人受鼓舞。

Yeah, yeah, no, wasn't encouraging enough.