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2012年股东大会 · 衰败行业中的公司应该如何估值?

59 段 · 2 位说话人 · 原片 5:20
F1
F10:00

从欧洲中部向大家问好。

Greetings to all of you from the Midwest of Europe.

我是来自德国 Bonn 的 Norman Rentrop。

I'm Norman Rentrop from Bonn, Germany.

Warren,非常感谢你这么坦诚地谈到你的健康状况。

Warren, thank you very much for being so open about your health situation.

我会惦记着你,也会为你祈祷,祝你彻底康复。

You are in my thoughts and in my prayers, and I wish you a thorough healing.
M1
M10:18

谢谢。

Thank you.
F1
F10:30

因为我大老远赶来,而且以后也不能再在 Pasadena 提问了,所以我希望你还有 Charlie 都能给一个详细一点的回答。

As I have traveled a long way and can no longer ask questions in Pasadena, I'm hoping for an elaborate answer from you, Charlie, as well.

我的问题是,你们怎么给处于衰退中的企业估值?

My question is, how do you value declining businesses?

比如你刚才说到的,百科全书业务被 Encarta 打垮,或者零售业被 Amazon 和其他公司颠覆。

You were talking about the encyclopedia business brought down by Encarta, or retailing disrupted by Amazon and others.

通过横向比较,你们会怎么给衰退中的企业估值?

By comparison shopping, how do you value declining businesses?
M1
M11:02

要我来回答这个吗?

Want me to answer that one?

它们远远没有成长型企业那么值钱。

They're not worth nearly as much as growing businesses.
F1
F11:09

嗯——

Well—
M1
M11:09

不过,如果它们还能吐出很多现金,那也还是可能相当有价值。

But they can still be quite valuable if a lot of cash is going to come out of them.

对,通常来说,最好还是离衰退中的企业远一点。

Yeah, generally speaking, it pays to stay away from declining businesses.

这事非常难。你会惊讶于我们接触到的一些待售企业,他们会说,你知道,这个——我要惹 Charlie 不高兴了——但他们会说,你知道,这家公司只有 EBITDA 的六倍,然后再给你描绘一个未来,可那个未来根本毫无意义。

It's very hard. You'd be amazed at the offerings of businesses we get where they say, you know, it's— I'm going to upset Charlie— but they say, you know, it's only six times EBITDA, and then they project some future that doesn't have any meaning whatsoever.

如果你真的认为一家企业是在走下坡路,大多数时候你都应该避开它。

If you really think a business is declining, most of the time you should avoid it.

当然,我们自己也在几个衰退行业里。

Now, we are in several declining businesses.

比如说,报纸业务就是一个衰退行业。

You know, the newspaper business is a declining business.

我们会为进入这个行业付出一个代价。

We will pay a price in that business.

不过我们的确觉得自己对它理解得相当透彻。

We do think we understand it pretty well.

我们会付出代价去做这个业务,但那不是 Berkshire 真正赚大钱的地方。

We will pay a price to be in that, but that is not where we're going to make the real money at Berkshire.

真正的大钱,要靠待在成长型企业里赚出来,这才是应该聚焦的地方。

The real money is going to be made by being in growing businesses, and that's where the focus should be.

我绝不会花很多时间去给一家衰退中的企业估值。

I would never spend a lot of time trying to value a declining business.

然后想着,你知道,我还能白捡一个便宜。

And think, you know, I'm going to get one free.

这就是我说的雪茄烟屁股策略,你捡到一个雪茄烟屁股,还能免费再抽上一口。

It's what I call the cigar butt approach, where you get one free puff out of the cigar butt that you find.

这跟把同样的精力和判断力投入到其他类型的企业上,完全不是一回事。

It just isn't the same amount of energy and intelligence brought to other types of businesses.

做别的类型企业,结果就是会更好。

It's just going to work out better.

所以,我们通常的反应,除非有某种特殊情况,就是避开新的这类企业。

And so we— our general reaction, unless there's some special case, is to avoid new ones.

我们现在手上有些衰退中的业务,还在顺着它们自身的规律继续经营下去,不过你知道,我们一开始就是从衰退行业起家的。

We're playing out certain declining businesses by their nature, but, you know, we started with declining businesses.

我们最早做的是 New England 的纺织业,后来还试过美国制造的鞋业,也在 Baltimore 开过一家百货商店。

We started with textiles in New England, and we tried U.S.-made shoes, and we had a department store in Baltimore.

Baltimore 的一家百货店,在 Howard 和 Lexington Street。

Department store in Baltimore, Howard and Lexington Street.

一家 trading stamp 公司。

Trading stamp company.

我们很擅长这个。

We're specialists in this.

对,我们,我们,我们有一门生意,一门生意在一九六七年或者六八年的时候,销售额大概有一点二亿美元左右,结果我们去年做了多少?大概两万美元?

Yeah, we, we, we have one business, we have one business that did $120 million or so of sales in 1967 or '68, and what'd we do last year, about $20,000?
F1
F13:20

对。

Yes.

两万美元。

$20,000.
M1
M13:22

这还是我亲自主持搞成这样的。

I, I presided over it myself.

对,不过我,我,我得说一句,我也算帮了忙。

Yeah, well, I, I, I want to say I helped.

我的意思是,他也不是一个人全干的。

I mean, he didn't do it all by himself.

不不不,我是说,我就坐在那个地方,看着那个——我们本来还想把销售图表拿到这儿来,然后倒过来给你们看,好让你们印象深刻,不过 Charlie 现在还在管这门生意。

No, no, no, I mean, but I sat there in the location and watched the— we thought of bringing the sales chart down here and turning it upside down to impress you, but Charlie's still in charge of this business.

他——而且我没法让他把它卖掉,不过你们可以给我开个价。

He's— and I can't get him to sell it, but make me an offer.

不过你要想想,那三个都在衰退的业务,最后全都失败了,可从它们里面出来的价值却有好几十亿美元——你很难想象,居然能从里面搞出那么多东西。

But if you think what came out of those 3 declining businesses, all of which failed, it's so many billions, you— it's hard to imagine how much came out of them.

对,我们可不是在找机会再来一遍。

Yeah, we're not looking for an opportunity to do it again.

不是,不过那是在一九六六年——也许我们还真该再来一次,因为一九六六年的时候,我们的一位董事 Sandy Gottesman,再加上 Charlie 和我,我们往一家公司里投了六百万美元。

No, but it was in 1966— maybe we should, because in 1966, Sandy Gottesman, one of our directors, and Charlie and I, we put $6 million into a company.

我们把它叫做 Diversified Retailing,虽然其实我们当时只有一个业务,不过,你知道。

We called it Diversified Retailing, although we only had one operation, but, you know.

这有点像 Angelo Mozilo 当年把自己在 New York 的那一个点,叫做 Countrywide Mortgage 一样。

It was kind of like Angelo Mozilo calling his one location, you know, in New York, Countrywide Mortgage at the time.

后来我们买下了 Howard 和 Lexington Street 的一家百货店。

And we bought a department store at Howard and Lexington Street.

不过替我们自己辩护一句,我得说,当时 Baltimore 的 Howard 和 Lexington Street 一共有四家百货店,现在四家都没了。

Now, in our defense, I would have to say there were 4 department stores at Howard and Lexington Street in Baltimore, and all 4 of them are gone.

但那六百万美元后来变成了大概三百亿美元。

But that $6 million has turned into about $30 billion.

起点就是那家失败的业务。

Starting with that failed business.

失败的业务。

Failed business.

对,对。

Yeah, yeah.

当然,Blue Chip Stamps 也是另一个例子,因为那,那也是另一家公司,那个,呃——然后当然 Berkshire 当时是纺织业务。

And of course, Blue Chip Stamps was another example of that because that, that was another company that, that, uh, and, and then of course Berkshire was the textile business.

所以我们,呃,早些年某种程度上有点受虐倾向。

So we, uh, we were sort of masochistic in the early days.

Becky?

Becky?
F1
F15:14

也挺无知的。

Ignorant too.
M1
M15:15

对,好吧。

Yeah, okay.
F1
F15:16

我当时——

I was—.
M1
M15:18

这个词我刚才其实也想到了,不过我不太想直接这么说。

That was the word that came to mind, but I didn't really like to use it.