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2011年股东大会 · 股票投资者应该如何理解和分析商誉?

42 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:10
M1
M10:00

Joel Tillinghast,来自 Massachusetts 的 Boston。

Joel Tillinghast, Boston, Massachusetts.

应该怎么正确理解商誉和资本回报率?

What's the proper way to think about goodwill and return on capital?

Berkshire 旗下的制造业、服务业和零售业务,在有形资本上的税前回报都超过百分之二十,这说明要么是经理人很有本事,要么就是这些生意本身特别棒。

Berkshire's manufacturing, service, and retail businesses earn pretax returns on tangible capital over 20%, which suggests either skilled managers or fantastic businesses.

但分配下去的股本回报率却只有个位数,看起来就比较平淡。

But the return on allocated equity is in the single digits, which looks drab.

会计师对无形资产的处理方式也差不多,因为它们的经济特性不一样。

Accountants treat intangibles similarly, because they have different economics.

像 See's 或者 Coca-Cola 这种几乎打不坏的品牌,我能理解为什么这些无形资产不该摊销,因为它们每年都变得更值钱。

For an indestructible brand like See's or Coca-Cola, I can see why the intangibles should not be amortized, because it's worth more every year.

你之前关于 GEICO 保单持有人的评论,就是理解这个问题的一种方式。

And your comments on GEICO policyholders were one way to think about that.

但所有烟草公司账上都有几十亿美元的商誉,而在发达国家,香烟的销量每年都在下降。

But all the tobacco companies have billions of dollars of goodwill, and unit sales of cigarettes decline every year in developed countries.

所以也许它们应该被摊销。

So perhaps they should be amortized.

还有 Time Warner、AOL,那些商誉显然就应该摊销。

And for Time Warner, AOL, goodwill definitely needed to be amortized.
M2
M21:06

对,商誉——你刚才提到 AOL、Time Warner 之类的——其实应该直接减记掉。

Yeah, goodwill— you mentioned AOL, Time Warner, something— it should be written off, actually.

我的意思是,那不是,呃,不是什么别的原因,那就是买价出错了。

I mean, it wasn't, uh, it was just a mistake in purchase price.

在评估一家企业从根本上有没有吸引力的时候,不应该把商誉算进去。

The goodwill should not be used in evaluating the fundamental attractiveness of a business.

那时候你该看的是有形资产回报率,即便如此,可能还有一些小的——还有别的一些调整你可能也想做。

There you should look at return on tangible assets, and even then there's some minor— some other adjustments you may want to make.

但基本上,在评估我们持有的这些企业、看管理层干得怎么样,以及企业底层经济性怎么样的时候,把商誉先放一边。

But basically, in evaluating the businesses we own in terms of what the management are doing and what the underlying economics of the business are, forget about goodwill.

但如果是评估我们在资本配置上干得怎么样,那你就必须把商誉算进去,因为那是我们真金白银付出去的。

In terms of evaluating the job we're doing in allocating capital, you have to include goodwill because we paid for it.

所以如果我们买——Coca-Cola 的历史可以追溯到一八八六年,John Pemberton 在 Atlanta 的 Jacobs' Pharmacy。

So if we buy— Coca-Cola goes back to 1886 and John Pemberton at Jacobs' Pharmacy in Atlanta.

而当他卖出第一份 Coca-Cola 的时候,账上可没记多少商誉。

And there was not a whole lot of goodwill put on the books when he sold that first Coca-Cola.

如果你现在要把这家公司整个买下来,整家公司,你可能会给它标上大约一千亿美元之类的价值。

If you were to buy the company now, the whole company, you would be putting a figure of $100 billion or something like that on it.

那你不应该去摊销它。

You shouldn't amortize that.

而且在判断这门生意的经济性时,你也不该盯着那个数字看。

And you shouldn't, in judging the economics of the business, look at that.

但如果你是判断买下它的那家公司——我们就叫它 Berkshire——它这笔收购的经济性,那你就必须把商誉考虑进去,因为我们是在配置资本,而且为它付了很高的价钱。

But in terms of judging the economics of the business that purchased it— we'll call it Berkshire— then you have to allow for the goodwill, because we're allocating capital and paying a lot for it.

我觉得商誉摊销这件事本身没有什么道理。

I don't think the amortization of goodwill makes any sense.

我认为,如果你后来发现自己买错了,而这门生意赚出来的钱,和投入的有形资产再加上商誉相比,并不匹配,那对商誉做减记是有道理的。

I think write-offs of it, when you find out you've made the wrong purchase and the business doesn't earn commensurate with the tangible assets employed, plus the goodwill, I think write-offs of it make sense.

但如果你是在看一家企业到底是好生意、一般的生意,还是差生意,就去看它的净有形资产回报率。

But when looking at businesses as to whether they're good businesses, mediocre businesses, poor businesses, look at the return on net tangible assets.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M32:58

嗯,我觉得这是对的。

Well, I think that's right.

不过,正如这位先生说的,我们买一家企业,买下一整家公司时,几乎从来都不是捡了个天大的便宜。

But as the gentleman says, when we buy a business, a whole business, we never get a huge bargain.

当然,我们拿自己付出去的钱来算,税前收益率可能也就是往百分之十那个方向靠。

And of course, we may get down toward— 10% pretax earnings on what we pay.

但这也没你想的那么糟,因为——我们有很大一部分资金来自保险 float,而这部分资金对我们来说是零成本的。

That isn't so awful as you think when you— a lot of the money comes from insurance float that costs you nothing.

换句话说,如果你有六百亿美元的 float,然后老天爷每年再给你六十亿美元的收益,那也不全是坏事。

In other words, if you have $60 billion of float and God gives you $6 billion a year of earnings, it's not all bad.
M2
M23:33

比如说 Lubrizol,我们买它的股权要花接近九十亿美元,它赚的钱——当然你还得把债务做一些调整,不过在这个案例里那不是个关键因素。

Well, on Lubrizol, we're paying close to $9 billion for the equity, and it earns— and you should make adjustments for debt, but it's not an important factor there.

而且,你知道,它目前的盈利水平大概是税前十亿美元。

And, you know, current rate of earnings is probably $1 billion pre-tax.

而 Lubrizol 这家公司本身,为了赚到这十亿美元税前利润,实际动用的——你可以大致说——股本大概是二十五亿美元。

And now Lubrizol itself is employing far— you know, they're employing, you know, call it, you know, $2.5 billion, uh, of equity to earn that billion of pretax.

所以从所使用的资产来看,这是一门非常好的生意;但是当我们为了买下它而支付了这笔溢价之后,它就变成了用接近九十亿美元,去赚十亿美元税前利润。

So it's a very good business in terms of the assets that are employed, but when we end up paying the premium we pay to buy into it, it becomes a billion pretax on something close to $9 billion.

所以你们得按接近九十亿美元这笔投资来评价我们。

Uh, you have to judge us based on, on close to a $9 billion investment.

而你们评价 James Hambrick 经营这门生意的时候,得按照低得多的资本来评判。

You have to judge James Hambrick in running the business based on the much lower capital.

也就是他实际动用的那些资本。

That, that, uh, he has employed.

这——它最后可能仍然会是一门非常好的生意;如果它没有我们现在想的那么好,那我们也可能至少是犯了一个小错误;但即便如此,基于它所使用的有形资本来看,这仍然是一门非常令人满意的生意。

It's— it can turn out to be a very good business, and we could turn out to have made, uh, at least a minor mistake, uh, if it isn't as good a business, uh, as we think it is now, but still, still is a very satisfactory business based on the tangible capital employed.

Charlie,你能把这个讲得更清楚一点吗?

Charlie, can you make that clearer?
M3
M34:59

嗯,事情就是——在我们现在所处的这个环境里,我们不可能用很低的价格买到哪怕还算 decent 的经营性企业。

Well, it's just— we are not going to buy, in the climate we're in now, operating businesses that are at all decent for low prices.

这就是不会发生。

It's just not going to happen.