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2000年股东大会 · 巴菲特:投资不是看市盈率高低这么简单

47 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 5:21
M1
M10:00

我叫 Jinting Wang,来自 California 的 San Diego。

My name is Jinting Wang from San Diego, California.
M2
M20:05

什么?

What's that?
M1
M10:07

首先,我想感谢你们两位。

First, I would thank both of you.

我的问题也是关于 growth 和 value 的。

My question is also about growth and value.

如果你看这个国家的企业,大多数企业——如果不是全部的话——在不同程度上都有周期性。

If you look at the business in this country, most of them, if not all of them, are cyclical to various degrees.

当然,有些企业的周期性会比其他企业更强。

Certain businesses are, of course, more cyclical than other businesses.

所以当你买一家企业,或者投资一只股票的时候,你们会不会设一个 cutoff?

So when you buy a business or make an investment in stock, do you have a cutoff?

比如说,如果一家企业在下行期会亏钱,我们就不买。

Like, if a business loses money in a downturn, we are not going to buy.

如果它的盈利一到下行期就开始下降,我们就不买。

If its earnings begin to decline in a downturn, we are not going to buy.

但如果只是盈利增长放慢了,那我们还可以看看这家企业,再决定投资。

But if the earnings growth slows down, then we can look at the business and make an investment.

所以对于这种周期性因素,你们会不会有一个 cutoff?

So do you have a cutoff in terms of this cyclical factor?

还有,你们买一家企业的时候,就当前的 P/E ratio 来说,会不会也有一个 cutoff?

And also, when you buy a business, in terms of the current P/E ratio, also do you have a cutoff?

比如说,如果它的 P/E ratio 超过十五、十六倍,那不管它未来盈利可能增长多少,我们都不买这家企业。

Let's say if its P/E ratio is more than 15, 16, we are not going to buy the business no matter how much earnings may grow in the future.

所以归根结底,这基本上就是 growth 和 value 的问题,对吧?

And so basically it's about growth and/or value?
M2
M21:21

对,我们有——直接回答你的问题,我们完全没有任何 cutoff。

Yeah, we have— to answer your question directly, we have no cutoff whatsoever.

我们不会用这种绝对化的方式来想问题,因为说到底,我们是在考虑灌木丛里到底有多少只鸟。

We don't think in terms of absolutes that way because again, we are trying to think of how many birds are in the bush.

而且有时候,当前摆在你面前的数字甚至可能是负的。

And sometimes the numbers that are currently being shown could be negative.

我们做过的最好的一笔投资之一,是一九七六年,当时我们买了 GEICO 相当大比例的股份——后来因为公司回购,变成了百分之五十——而那时候这家公司正在亏很多钱,而且在可预见的短期内还注定会继续亏很多钱。

One of the best buys we ever made was, uh, in 1976, when we bought a significant percentage— what became through repurchases 50% of, uh, GEICO— at a time when the company was losing a lot of money and was destined to lose a lot of money, uh, in the immediate future.

当然,他们在亏钱这一点,我们不是没看到,但是,我们觉得我们看到了一个未来,而那个未来会和当时的现状有非常大的不同。

Uh, and, you know, the fact they were losing money was not lost on us, but, uh, uh, we thought we saw a future there that was significantly different than the current situation.

所以,如果一家企业现在因为某种我们能够理解的原因在亏钱,而且我们认为它未来会和现在有显著不同,那我们一点都不会介意买进这样的企业。

So it would not bother us, uh, in the least, uh, to buy into a business that currently was losing money for some reason that we understood and where we thought that the future was going to be significantly different.

同样地,如果一家企业正在赚钱,我们心里也根本没有什么 P/E ratio 的 cutoff 点。

Similarly, if a business is making some money, there's no— there's no P/E ratio that we have in mind as being a cutoff point at all.

有些企业——我是说,你可能会碰到某种企业,它现在只赚一点点钱,但你仍然愿意为它付出非常、非常高的 P/E ratio。

There are businesses— I mean, you could have some business making a sliver of money on which you would pay a very, very high P/E ratio.

但归根结底,我们是把这些全都当成企业来看。

But it's, it's basically, we look at all of these as businesses.

比如说,我们在 Executive Jet,也就是 NetJets,在欧洲这块业务就是在亏钱。

We are, for example, in, in, at Executive Jet, NetJets, we're losing money in Europe.

不过,我们本来就预期在欧洲建立业务的时候会亏钱。

Well, we expect to lose money in Europe getting established.

所以,如果你拥有整家公司,买下它百分之百的股权;或者如果 Executive Jet 是一家上市公司,你买入它百分之三的股份,这就说明它不是一笔好投资吗?

So does that mean it's a bad thing to buy 100% of if you own the whole company, or, or 3% of if Executive Jet was a public company and you were buying into it?
M1
M13:10

不是。

No.
M2
M23:11

我的意思是,这里面有各种各样的决策,而这些决策都涉及到这样一种情况:未来会在某些重要方面和现在不一样。

I mean, it— there are all kinds of decisions that, that, that, uh, involve the future looking different in some important way than the present.

我们大多数决策,其实都跟那种我们预期未来不会有太大变化的事情有关。

Most of our decisions relate to things where we expect the future not to change much.

不过也有这种情况——嗯,American Express 就是个很好的例子。

But you get this— Well, American Express was a good example.

我们在一九六四年买入它的时候,有个叫 Tino De Angelis 的家伙给他们制造了大得不得了的麻烦。

And when we bought it in 1964, a fellow named Tino De Angelis had caused them incredible trouble.

你知道,这属于那种一度看起来可能会把公司拖垮的决定。

You know, it was one of those decisions that looked for a time as if it could break the company.

所以我们知道,如果你把 Tino 从公司偷走的那些东西,按当年的收益账户去计提,或者再把相关的法律费用也算进去,那你看到的会是一笔相当可观的亏损。

So we knew if you'd been charging for what Tino had stolen from the company against the income account that year, or the legal costs that were going to be attached to it, you were looking at a significant loss.

但问题在于,十年或者二十年之后,American Express 会是什么样子?

But the question was, what was American Express going to look like 10 or 20 years later?

而我们对这一点感觉非常有把握。

And we felt very good about that.

所以并没有什么武断的硬性截止线,但关键就在于,要看这门生意从现在到永远,到底能带来多少现金。

So there are no arbitrary cutoff points, but there is that focus on how much cash will this business deliver, you know, between now and kingdom come.

当然,从实际操作上说,如果你把估算期放在二十年左右,那么终值的重要性就没那么大了。

Now, as a practical matter, if you estimate it for 20 years or so, the terminal values get less important.

所以,你脑子里确实要有这样一条现金流:比如说,在二十年时间里,这家公司会释放出多少现金;再用合适的利率折现之后,跟你今天付出的价格相比,这笔账是不是说得通。

So, but you do want to have in your mind a stream of cash that will be thrown off over, say, a 20-year period that makes sense discounted at a proper interest rate compared to what you're paying today.

这就是投资的全部核心。

And that's what investment's all about.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M3
M34:36

对,答案几乎跟你刚才暗示的方向完全相反。

Yeah, the answer is almost the exact reverse of what you were pointing toward.

一家企业,如果底子特别好,却被很糟糕的数字掩盖住了,而这些数字又会让别人心里产生各种 cutoff points,那对我们来说反而是最理想的,只要我们能把它看明白。

A business with something glorious underneath disguised by terrible numbers that cause cutoff points in other people's minds is ideal for us if we can figure it out.
M2
M25:00

对,我们历史上就碰到过几次这样的情况,而且让我们赚了很多钱。

Yeah, we've had a couple of those in our history that have made us a lot of money.

我是说,我们也不想盼着谁倒霉,但是——

I mean, we don't want to wish anybody ill, but—
M3
M35:07

哦,我可没到那个地步。

Oh, I wouldn't go that far.
M2
M25:09

好吧,那 Charlie——我觉得他这是在代表我们两个人发言。

Okay, well, Charlie—I think he's speaking for both of us.

好,我们继续看第二个问题。

Okay, we'll move on to number 2.