M11:20
而且，顺便说一句，一直都是这样。
And, and it never has, incidentally.
我的意思是，AA 和 AAA 之间，呃，利差一直都非常小。
I mean, AAs versus AAAs, uh, the spread has always been very small.
而且人们会在金融课上之类的地方争论，说为了保住 AAA 去付出那个代价并不值得，因为你在债务成本上省不了多少，但却会牺牲股本回报率。
And people would argue in finance classes and all that it wasn't worth paying the price to have a AAA because you didn't save that much on debt and it cost you in terms of return on equity.
我从来不认同这种说法，而且我一直非常喜欢同时拥有 Moody's 和 Standard & Poor's 的 AAA 评级。
I never subscribed to that, and I very much liked having a AAA from both Moody's and Standard & Poor's.
Moody's 下调我们评级的时候，我确实很失望，我们之前并不真的觉得这会发生，但它就是发生了。
I was disappointed when Moody's downgraded us, we didn't really think that was going to happen, but it did.
而且这并不会——这并不会对借款成本产生任何实质性的影响。
And it doesn't have— it doesn't have any material effect on borrowing costs.
它，它确实——它确实会让我们在全球范围内，就保险承诺这件事上，少了一点可以拿来吹嘘的资本，尽管肯定没有谁排在我们前面。
It, it does— it does cause us to lose some bragging rights around the world in terms of our insurance promise, although nobody ranks ahead of us, that's for sure.
但这件事不会很快改回来。
But it will not change back in a hurry.
我的意思是，人们——人们在委员会里做出的决定，不会很快就推翻。
I mean, people, people don't make decisions in committees that they reverse very quickly.
这就是人性。
It's just not human nature.
在我心里，我们还是 AAA，而且实际上，在听到不同说法之前，在 Standard & Poor's 心里我们也还是 AAA。
We're still a AAA in my mind, and actually we're a AAA in Standard & Poor's mind till we hear something differently.
我们当然认为，而且我们的经营方式也是这样，就是 Berkshire 不可能有比这更强的信用。
We certainly think, and we run it in a way, that there can be no stronger credit than Berkshire.
如果一家评级机构用的是一套打勾式的比率和诸如此类的体系，那它就很难衡量像管理层对债权人的态度这种东西。
It's difficult for a rating agency, if they have a checkbox system of ratios and such, to measure something like the attitude of management toward creditors.
但我可以向你保证，Berkshire 的管理层——Berkshire 的管理层把履行自身义务看得神圣不可侵犯，而且这比提高每股收益或者任何类似的事情都重要得多。
But I will assure you that Berkshire has a management— has a management that regards meeting its obligations as sacred and a lot more important than increasing earnings per share or anything of the sort.
我的意思是，我们对一些人的义务，比如 workers' compensation，可能会延续到未来五十年。
I mean, we, we have obligations to people in something like workers' compensation that go 50 years out in the future.
也就是说，有的人受了很严重的伤，而他们每个月都会收到来自 Berkshire 的一张支票。
I mean, this is somebody that's been injured severely, and they get a check every month from Berkshire.
而且你知道，这——这比我们在股本回报率上到底赚 X，还是 X 再加零点一，或者零点二个百分点，要重要得多。
And, you know, that, that's a lot more important than whether we earn X or X plus a tenth or a couple of tenths of percent on equity.
而我们的做事方式——我们当然一直努力按这样的方式来做事——就是不仅要让人们能收到那些支票，而且还要让他们连担心自己能不能收到那些支票都不必担心。
And we conduct ourselves— we try to certainly try to conduct ourselves so that, that not only will people get those checks, but they'll never have to even worry about getting those checks.
而且，而且对评级机构来说，要量化这种东西非常难，就是，呃，Berkshire 管理层身上的这种态度。
And, and that's very difficult for a rating agency to quantify, that attitude on the part of, uh, the management of Berkshire.
但请相信我，这种态度是真实存在的。
But believe me, it exists.
这个嘛，我会说，Moody's 把 AAA 调整这件事——对 Berkshire 未来的发展不会有什么实质性的影响，但这事还是让我有点恼火。
And, uh, I would say that the AAA change at Moody's is not— it's not going to be material in the future of Berkshire, but it still irritates me.
Charlie？
Charlie?
嗯，至少他们表现出了相当强的独立性。
Well, at least they showed a considerable independence.
对，谁知道呢，也许这也算是其中一个因素。
Yeah, who knows, that may have entered into it too.
对，我的态度还是挺看得开的。
Yeah, my attitude is quite philosophical.
我觉得 Moody's 下一次调整，会是朝相反的方向。
I think the next change at Moody's will be in the opposite direction.
而且我觉得会这样，是因为我们值得更高的评级，而他们也很聪明。
And I think that will happen because we deserve a higher rating, and they're smart.
所以，Charlie 和我意见不一致的时候——而且我们确实经常意见不一致，我们从来不争吵，但我们会有分歧——Charlie 每次到了那种他真的很想让我去做某件事的时候，比如买 BYD 的股份之类的，他总会跟我说，嗯，他会说，最后你会发现还是我说得对。
So when Charlie and I disagree— and we do disagree a lot, we never argue, but we disagree— and Charlie, when he gets to the point where he really wants me to do something, like buy the BYD interest or something, he always says to me, well, he says, in the end, you'll see it my way.
因为你很聪明，而我是对的。
Because you're smart and I'm right.