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2003年股东大会 · 巴菲特:要从破产企业收购案中赚钱很难

39 段 · 4 位说话人 · 原片 4:47
M1
M10:00

John Goss,来自 Florida 的 Key West。

John Goss, Key West, Florida.

你去年提到过,你对从破产企业里收购公司这件事感到挺挫败的。

You mentioned last year your frustration with buying companies out of bankruptcy.

根据你过去的经验,法院不允许你在收购 Burlington 的出价里设置 breakup fee,这一点让你意外吗?

Were you surprised from your past experience that the court would not allow a breakup fee regarding your Burlington bid?
M2
M20:15

这个问题问得好。

That's a good question.
M3
M30:17

我们向法院提交了一份出价。

We submitted a bid to the court.
M2
M20:21

管理层同意了我们的报价,于是我们在 Burlington Industries 的破产程序里提交了一份出价。

The management agreed to our offer, and we submitted a bid in the bankruptcy of Burlington Industries.

我们的报价是五亿多美元,同时我们还设置了一个——也就是所谓的 breakup fee。

And our bid was $500-and-some million, and we provided a— what's called a breakup fee.

这个我一会儿解释,不过我记得大概是一千四百万美元。

I, I'll get to that in a second, but I think it was $14 million.
M3
M30:40

其实,当我们提交这份五亿多美元的报价时,这个报价必须在相当长的几个月里一直有效。

Now really, when we submit that bid of $500-and-some-odd million, our bid has to remain outstanding for a good many months.
M2
M20:50

所以实际上,提出这个报价,就又回到了我前面讲过的那个 option value 的问题。

So in effect, by making that bid, I get back to the earlier statements I made about option value.

我们收这一千四百万美元,等于是在告诉 Burlington 的债权人,在大概四五个月这段时间里,他们可以按我们的报价把这家公司卖给我们;或者在相当长的一段时间里,他们也可以试着为它拿到更高的价钱。

For $14 million, we were telling the creditors of Burlington that for a period of maybe 4 months or 5 months that they could sell us that business for our number, or for a considerable period they could get more money for it.
M3
M31:14

在我看来,这个 put 的价格实在是太低了。

Now, that is a very low price, in my view, for a put.
M2
M21:18

事实上,这个价格根本不够,不过在破产程序里,它已经算是一种惯常的比例了。

In fact, it's an inadequate price, but it's, it's become sort of a customary percentage in terms of bankruptcy proceedings.
M3
M31:28

法院说,这样的 breakup fee 收得太高了,或者按我的叫法,put fee 太高了,所以他们设立了一套新的流程,结果就是 Burlington 会在几个月后按照这套新流程卖给别的人。

The court said that that was too much to charge as a breakup fee, or what I would call a put fee, and so they have set up a new procedure which will result in Burlington getting sold some months from now to people who follow this new procedure.

呃,我觉得——

Uh, I think that—.
M2
M21:51

我是这么想的——说实话,我觉得一千四百万美元根本不够,但是我——

I think— I frankly think $14 million is inadequate, but I—.
M3
M31:54

但是,不过这个数,大致也确实是在很多案例里被允许的那个区间内。

But, but it, it's, it's, it's roughly in the range of what has been allowed in, in many cases.
M2
M22:01

但如果不是在破产程序里,面对这种风险敞口,我们绝不会接受这么一点钱。

But we would never agree to that sort of a sum for that sort of exposure outside of bankruptcy.

呃,这根本说不通。

Uh, it just doesn't make any sense.

世界变化太大了。

The world changes too much.

如果你看看 New York Stock Exchange 上企业价值的变动,你会发现一年里波动百分之百都很常见。

If you look at the value of businesses as measured on the New York Stock Exchange, you'll see fluctuations of 100% in a year.

而为了百分之二到百分之三的费用,就把五亿多美元按固定价格承诺去买一家处在艰难行业里的公司,呃,我是说——这真的不太合理。

And for 2 or 3% to commit $500 and some million at a fixed price for a business in a tough industry, uh, I mean, that's— that does not make a lot of sense.
M3
M32:34

我当时是这么做了——不过被否决了。

I did it, so— but it got rejected.

呃,我们不会——

Uh, we would not—.
M2
M22:39

我们不会参与——嗯。

We will not participate— uh-huh.
M3
M32:42

不会参与那种流程:我们出价好几亿美元,而且我们的报价还得一直挂在外面有效。

In a procedure where we're going to bid hundreds of millions of dollars and where our bid has to remain outstanding.
M2
M22:50

而且你想啊,如果发生什么 twin-tower,也就是 World Trade Center 那样的灾难,或者 California 发生地震,或者交易所停市、暂停交易,或者各种各样别的事情,我们的报价还摆在那里,而我们为此只拿了五百万美元之类的钱。

And if the, you know, if there's a twin-tower, if there's a World Trade Center disaster, or there's an earthquake in California, or there's a cessation or suspension of trading on the stock exchange, or all kinds of things, that our bid sits out there and we've gotten paid $5 million or something for it.

这在我看来根本说不通。

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

所以,从破产企业里买东西是很难做的,虽然我们现在已经做成过两次,而且这两次结果都不错。

So, it's tough to buy things out of bankruptcy, although we've done it twice now, and both situations have worked out well.
M3
M33:20

但后来我们第三次在 Burlington 这件事上又试了一次,我们为了做出那份报价花了相当多的时间和金钱,忙了好几个星期,也花了不少钱,结果还是没被接受。

But then we tried it a third time with Burlington, and we spent a considerable amount of time and money generating that bid, weeks and weeks and a good many dollars, and it wasn't accepted.
M2
M23:34

所以你知道,当我回头看这些经历的时候,我会跟自己说,跟 Wal-Mart 做一笔交易,我跟他们谈一个小时,握个手,交易就成了,这可比过去这一年里那些事容易太多了。比如我们一两天内买下 Northern Natural,或者几天内买下 Kern River Pipeline,或者我们买的其他各种企业。

So, you know, when I look at these experiences, I say to myself, it's a lot easier to make a deal with Wal-Mart where I talk with them for an hour and we shake hands and we've got a deal than the last year, where we buy Northern Natural in a day or two, or where we buy Kern River Pipeline in a few days, or the various businesses we bought.
M3
M33:53

至于破产程序,我觉得,这大概是整个流程里一个必要的组成部分。

And bankruptcy, I think it's, it's probably a necessary part of the procedure.
M2
M23:58

我的意思是,你当然得遵守破产法,但我要说,用这种方式买一家企业是非常别扭的。

I mean, you have to comply with bankruptcy laws, but I would say it's a very awkward way to buy a business.

如果我们必须提交那种会持续有效好几个月的报价,而别人随时都能出更高的价把我们压过去,并且我们因为给了这种 put 性质的承诺却只能拿到百分之一的费用,那我们以后就不会出很多这样的报价了。

And if we have to submit bids that will remain outstanding for many months when people can top us and, and, and only have a 1% fee for giving that sort of a put, we will not be making many bids.

Charlie?

Charlie?
M4
M44:21

嗯,我们知道,从我们的角度来看,做一笔交易却没有那个不高的百分之二承诺费,这显然是不合理的。

Well, we know it was unreasonable from our point of view to, uh, to have a transaction that didn't have that modest 2% commitment fee in it.

不过法院的看法不一样,它认为相关的数字应该有所不同。

The court had a different view, and it thought that the figures should have been different.

至于最后会怎么样,谁知道呢,我们再看看事情会怎么收场吧。

And who knows, we'll see how it all works out.
M2
M24:47

第一个。

Number 1.