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1997年股东大会 · 巴菲特芒格点评因特尔公司(别以为他们真的不懂科技股)

76 段 · 3 位说话人 · 原片 8:54
F1
F10:00

好的,Buffett 先生,我想再次感谢你发行了 Class B 股。

Yes, Mr. Buffett, I would like to thank you again for issuing the Class B shares.
M1
M10:06

嗯,我很高兴我们这么做了,而且我也希望你持有了这些股票。

Well, I'm glad we did, and I, I hope you own them.
F1
F10:09

我是 Class B 股东。

And I am a Class B shareholder.

我想请你评论一下我们做的一些分析。

I need your comment on some analysis that we did.

如果有人采用你的投资理念,建立一个高度集中的投资组合,只持有六到八只股票,并且遵循你买入并持有的原则,这样复利的数学效应和不交税的优势就能发挥作用。

If someone uses your investment philosophy of building a highly concentrated portfolio of 6 to 8 stocks and adopts your buy-and-hold principle so that the math of compounding and no tax works for you.

但是呢,做一个重要的改动:去投资像 Intel 和 Microsoft 这样高速增长的公司,增长率是百分之三十,而不是你投资组合里那种典型增长百分之十五的公司。

But however, with one major modification: invest in high-octane companies like Intel and Microsoft that are growing at 30% instead of typical 15% growth companies in your portfolio.

我的问题是,这样的投资哲学,最终会不会把股东回报变成你过去历史上给股东带来的两倍?

My question is, will this investment philosophy translate into twice the shareholder return as you have historically provided to your shareholders?
M1
M11:09

嗯,如果 Intel 和 Microsoft 的表现能比 Coke 和 Gillette 好出一倍,那结果当然就会是两倍回报。

Well, it will certainly work out to twice the return if Intel and Microsoft do twice as well as Coke and Gillette.

我的意思是,这其实取决于你能不能识别出那些你真正理解、而且你非常有把握的企业。

I mean, it's, it's a question of being able to identify businesses that you understand and feel very certain about.

如果你理解这些企业——很多人确实理解,但 Charlie 和我不理解——那你就得去评估它们。

And if you understand those businesses, and many people do, but Charlie and I don't, you have to evaluate them.

如果你判断它们会——会表现得非常好。

And if you decide they're— you're going to do very well.

但是有一大类公司,非常大的一类公司,是 Charlie 和我根本不知道该怎么估值的。

But there's a whole group of companies, a very large group of companies, that Charlie and I just don't know how to value.

而这并不会困扰我们。

And that doesn't bother us.

我的意思是,你知道,我们不知道——我们不知道可可豆会怎么走,也不知道 Russian ruble 会怎么走,或者——总之有各种各样的金融工具,我们就是觉得自己没有足够的知识去评估。

I mean, you know, we don't know what— we don't know how to figure out what cocoa beans are going to do, or the Russian ruble, or— I mean, there's all kinds of financial instruments that we, we just don't feel we have the knowledge to evaluate.

说真的,你知道,指望一个人理解世界上每一种生意,可能本来就有点过分了。

And really, you know, it might be a little too much to expect that somebody would understand every business in the world.

当我们,呃,碰到一些对我们来说更难理解的公司时——我说的“理解”,是指你对这家公司十年后大概会在哪里,有相当清楚的判断——呃,我就是没法形成那种确信。

And when we, uh, we find some that are much harder for us to understand— and when I say understand, my idea of understanding a business is that you've got a pretty good idea where it's going to be in 10 years, uh, and I just can't get that conviction.

很多企业我都做不到这一点,而只有相对少数几家我可以做到。

With a lot of businesses, whereas I can get it with a relatively few.

但我只需要少数几家就够了。

But I only need a few.

就像你指出的,你只需要少数几家,六家、八家,差不多这样。

As you pointed out, you only need a few, 6 or 8 or something like that.

对你来说,如果我们对你说的这些、在我们看来稍微更复杂一些的企业也有洞见,那会更好——当然也肯定会更好,因为如果你说的那些增长率能够维持,那么过去确实、现在也可能仍然有机会赚到多得多的钱。

It would be better for you— it certainly would have been better for you if, if we had the insights about what we regard as the somewhat more complicated businesses you describe, because there was and may still be a chance to make a whole lot more money, uh, if those growth rates that you describe are maintained.

不过,我不认为——我不认为你还能找到比 Intel 的 Andy Grove 和 Microsoft 的 Bill Gates 更好的管理者了,而且他们在各自所在的行业里显然都占据了非常出色的位置。

But I don't think there are— I don't think you'll find better managers than Andy Grove at Intel and, and Bill Gates at Microsoft, and they certainly seem to have fantastic positions in the businesses they're in.

但我对这些行业了解得还不够,所以我没法像确信 Gillette 和 Coca-Cola 的生意非常出色那样,也同样确信它们的地位真的那么出色。

But I don't know enough about those businesses to be as sure that those positions are fantastic as I am about being sure that Gillette and Coca-Cola's businesses are fantastic.

也许因为你的背景,或者只是因为你的思维方式,你对这些企业的理解比你对 Coke 和 Gillette 的理解还深,但我不是这样。

You may understand those businesses better than you understand Coke and Gillette because of your background or just the way your, your mind is wired, but, uh, I don't.

所以,我只能坚持做那些我真心觉得自己能够理解的东西。

And therefore, I have to stick with what, what I really think I can understand.

而且,如果别的地方能赚更多钱,我觉得那些赚到这笔钱的人也是应得的。

And, and if there's more money to be made elsewhere I think the people that make it are entitled to it.
M2
M23:39

Charlie?

Charlie?

嗯,如果你看像 Intel 这样的企业,物理定律本身是有限制的,最终会让你没办法继续在一块芯片上塞进更多晶体管。按每年百分之三十左右这样的速度增长下去,呃,我不认为那些限制现在还离得很远,但它们也不是无限遥远。

Well, if you take a business like Intel, there are limitations under the laws of physics which eventually stop your putting more transistors on a single chip, and at 30% per annum or something like that, you, uh, I don't think those limitations are still a good distance away, but they're not an infinite distance away.

这意味着 Intel 必须把它当前的领先地位延伸到新的业务上去,就像 IBM 当年把 Hollerith machine 的优势延伸到计算机业务上一样。

That means that Intel has to leverage its current leadership into new activities, just as IBM leveraged the Hollerith machine into the computer.

要提前预测一家企业能不能做到这一点,这对我们来说实在——实在太难了。

Predicting whether somebody's going to be able to do that in advance is just— it's too tough for us.
M1
M14:25

Bob Noyce,Intel 两位创始人之一——两位主要创始人之一——是在 Iowa 的 Grinnell 长大的。

Bob Noyce, one of the 2 founders— the 2 primary founders of Intel, grew up in Grinnell, Iowa.

我想他是 Grinnell 一位牧师的儿子,上的是 Grinnell College。后来在我六十年代末进入 Grinnell 的董事会时,他还是 Grinnell 校董会的主席。

I think he's the son of a minister in Grinnell, and went to Grinnell College and was chairman of the board of trustees of Grinnell when I went on the board of Grinnell back in the late '60s.

后来他离开 Fairchild,和 Gordon Moore 一起创办 Intel 的时候,Grinnell 认购了那次私募的百分之十——呃,那其实就是 Intel 最初的启动资金。

And when he left Fairchild to form Intel with Gordon Moore, Grinnell bought 10% of the private placement that funded— uh, it was the initial funding for Intel.

Bob 是个非常了不起的人,很容易交流,就像 Bill Gates 一样。

And Bob was a terrific guy, very easy to talk to, just as Bill Gates is.

我的意思是,他们——这些家伙会把他们的生意讲给我听,而且他们都是很棒的老师,但我是个很差的学生。

I mean, they— these, these fellows explain the businesses to me, and they're great teachers, but I'm a lousy student.

而且他们,呃,我是说,他们是真的很会讲。

And they, uh, I mean, they really do it.

他们非常擅长解释自己的业务。

They're, they're very good at explaining their businesses.

Bob 呢,Bob 是那种很接地气的 Iowa 小伙子,他会告诉你风险,也会告诉你上行空间,而且特别讨人喜欢,百分之百诚实,方方面面都很正直。

Bob was, Bob was a very down-to-earth Iowa boy who, who could, uh, he could tell you the risks and tell you the upside and, uh, enormously likable, 100% honest every way.

所以我们当时确实买了最初发行份额里的百分之十。

Uh, so we did, we did buy 10% of the original issue.

呃,后来负责投资委员会的那位“天才”,过了几年把那些股票给卖掉了。

Uh, the genius that ran the investment committee managed to sell those a few years later.

我就不说他的名字了。

I won't give you his name.

而且,我也不给任何人发奖,去算那些股票现在值多少钱。

And, and there is no prize for anybody that calculates the value of those shares now.

顺便说一句,Bob 当年一开始特别热衷的一件事——其实很可能他是最热衷的——就是 Intel 当时在做的一款手表。

The, uh, incidentally, one of the things Bob was very keen on originally— in fact, he was probably the keenest on it— was some watch that Intel was making.

按 Bob 的说法,那是一块了不起的手表。

And it was a fabulous watch according to Bob.

不过它只有一个问题。

It just had one problem.

我们从 Grinnell 派了一个人去 West Coast,到 Intel 那边看看。

We sent a guy out from Grinnell who was going out the West Coast to where Intel was.

Bob 就送了他一块这样的手表。

And Bob gave him one of these watches.

等他回到 Grinnell 之后,他写了一份关于我们这笔小投资的报告。

And when he got back to Grinnell, he wrote up a report about this little investment we had.

他说,他说,这些手表太神奇了。

And he said, he said, these watches are marvelous.

他说,他说,什么都不用碰,它们就会随着我们一路前进,自动适应不同时区的时间。

He said, he said, without touching anything, they managed to adapt to the time zones as they changed as we went along.

换句话说,后来才发现,它们走得特别特别快。

In other words, they were running, running very, very fast, as it turned out.

他们在这款手表上折腾了大概五六年,最后彻底栽了。

And they worked with that watch for about 5 or 6 years, and they fell on their face.

你们也知道,到了八十年代中期,他们经历了一次彻底转型,因为他们原来依赖的那个产品也开始没劲了。

And as you know, and you know, they had a total transformation in the, in the mid-'80s when the, the product on which they relied also ran out of gas.

所以这并不容易。

So it's not easy.

我的意思是,顺便说一句,Andy Grove 写过一本非常棒的书,叫 Only the Paranoid Survive,里面讲的就是战略拐点。

I mean, and Andy Grove has written a terrific book, incidentally, Only the Paranoid Survive, which describes strategic inflection points.

我建议你们每一个人都去读读那本书,因为那真是一本非常棒的书。

I recommend that every one of you read that book because it is a terrific book.

但他们当时有 Andy Grove 在那儿,和另外一些人一起完成了那次转型。

But they had an Andy Grove there who made that transformation, uh, along with some other people.

但这种事不是每次都会发生。

But that doesn't happen every time.

公司是会被甩在后面的。

Companies get left behind.

我们不想待在那种我们觉得公司随时可能被甩下的生意里。

We don't want to be in businesses where we feel companies can't be left behind.

这也就是说,你知道,Intel 当年本来是有可能、而且几乎真的就脱轨了。

And that means that, you know, Intel could have and almost did go off the tracks.

你也知道,IBM 当年持有 Intel 很大一部分股份,后来在八十年代中期把它卖掉了。

IBM owned a big piece of Intel, as you know, and they sold it in the mid-'80s.

所以你看,这么一群本来应该非常了解这个行业的人,当时也一样看不见未来会怎么样。

So, you know, here are a bunch of people that should know a lot about that business, but they couldn't see the future either.

我觉得用那种方式赚钱是很难的,不过我也觉得,确实有些人能赚到很多钱。

I think it's very tough to make money that way, but I think some people can make a lot of money.

就是靠理解那一类企业。

Understanding those kind of businesses.

我的意思是,确实有一些人有那种洞察力。

I mean, there are people with the insights.

Walter Scott 是我们的一位董事,干得非常出色。大概十年到十二年前,在 Omaha,这门生意可能还只是脑子里一个模模糊糊的想法,后来却发展成了一家非常巨大的企业。

Walter Scott, one of our directors, has done terrifically with a business that started, you know, just a gleam in the eye maybe 10 or 12 years ago here in Omaha and turned into a huge business.

而且你知道,Walter 在去看 football 比赛的路上还跟我解释过这个事,不过我又当了一回差学生。

And, you know, Walter explained that to me on the way down to the football game, but bad student again.

所以,Walter 能做这个——你知道,我就在看台上给他鼓掌就好了。

So, Walter can do it and— you know, I'd cheer from the stands.

呃,不过那个,那个其实——这根本一点也不困扰我。

Uh, but that, that really— that doesn't bother me at all.

我的意思是,真正会困扰我的是,我以为自己看懂了一门生意,其实我并没有看懂。

I mean, it— what, what would bother me is if I think I understand a business and I don't.

那才,那才,那才是——

That's, that's, that's—.
M2
M28:24

那可不会——

That wouldn't—.
M1
M18:25

那才会让我困扰。

That would bother me.
M2
M28:28

嗯,我们年轻力壮的时候,想搞懂一些复杂的企业都没搞明白、都不及格,所以到了晚年,我们也不打算再去掌握那些我们早年没学会的东西了。

Well, having flunked when we were young and strong at understanding some complex businesses, we're not looking to, uh, master what we earlier failed at in our latter years.
M1
M18:46

第十二区。

Zone 12.

这场面最后可能会变得像布道会一样,我们大家都出来忏悔自己的罪过,你知道。

This may turn out like a revival meeting where we all confess our sins and come forward, you know.